Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 28, 2006 02:59am | #1

   Well, Danish oil doesn't mean any thing specific, though the usual formulations are an oil/varnish mix, such as Watco.  These are easy, though with walnut (as with oak) you want to apply it at a time when you can check on it about every 15 minutes or half hour after the first coat.  (It can bleed back out of pores.)  It is easy to repair which is fortunate, since it might need it often. 

   Tung oil can be 100% pure tung oil, which I would NOT recommend.  It dries very slowly, regardless of the drivel about being "fast drying" on Woodcraft's product label.  It offers significantly less protection than the oil/varnish.  But other products such as Formby's Tung Oil Finish, are not tung oil at all but are varnishes that may contain a little tung oil in the mix.  It behaves like any wiping varnish. 

   For appearance purposes figured walnut looks best under shellac, particularly garnet shellac, though for a coffee table that might not be very practical, since at least in my house, a coffee table might have martinis set on it. 

   A wiping varnish would be the next best alternative, though you have to decide about the trade off between the protection and how thick a build up you want.  I like Waterlox Original/Sealer that gives a very soft gloss.  You can save money by mixing your own wiping varnish by adding thinner to any varnish.  The usual recommendation is to mix them 50-50, which is about what the commercial wiping varnish makers do, but you may find a smaller percent of thinner will work fine, and build a bit faster.  You can thin any varnish, but I would stay away from polyurethane, since as soon as you get enough film to be protective, you get a bit of haziness because of the poly.  Behlen's Rockhard would be excellent on walnut.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Apr 28, 2006 05:43pm | #2

   For WHAT iT'S WORTH .. A good POST! Like it is in real life''
   I live in the Twilight ZONE!

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 28, 2006 11:06pm | #3

   Here's some info that may be of interest and help.

   True tung oil comes from the nuts of a tree in China--and some other parts of the world. A product that is a true tung oil will have a label that says either "pure" or "100%". If it doesn't say that on the label, IT ISN'T TRUE TUNG OIL.  Forget about all the other baloney and look for one of those two words if you want to use a true tung oil. If the label contains any other chemicals, except a thinner, you are not getting a true tung oil.

   "Tung Oil Finish" is a marketing expression for products that the manufacturer thinks will give you a finish like the finish you get from a true tung oil. These "Tung Oil Finishes" may or may not contain some true tung oil, but most do not contain any true tung oil. Their only claim to the use of the word "tung" is that it claims to give you the appearence of finish that results from tung oil. You're buying a "faux tung oil finish".

   There are two types of "tung oil finishes". One is mixture of varnish, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits (called an oil/varnish). The exact mixtures are proprietary but 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 will get you real close. Some manufacturers add a dollop of drier to speed up the drying. This same mixture is frequently also called "Danish Oil" because it gives a finish that resembles the finish used on much of the "danish style" teak furniture imported in the 50's and 60's. It closely mimics a true oil finish but the addition of the varnish resins gives it more durability and protection.

   Here are some oil/varnish mixtures:(*)
   Deft Danish Oil
   General Finishes' Sealacell
   Behlen Danish Oil
   Maloof Finish
   Behr Scandinavian Tung Oil Finish
   Minwax Tung Oil Finish
   Minwax Antique Oil Finish
   Velvit Oil
   Watco Danish Oil
   McCloskey Tung Oil Finish (contains pure tung oil, not linseed oil)

   The second "tung oil finish" is one made from varnish and mineral spirits. The approximate ratio is 1:1. This is really just a thinned varnish just like the stuff sold as "wiping varnish". When one two or three coats are applied, it also mimics the finish produced by a true oil but it is harder than the oil/varnish above because it does not have as much oil. It is slightly more protective than the oil/varnish type or tung oil finish. For all intents and purposes it is a varnish finish.

   Here are some thinned varnishes:(*)
   Minway Wiping Varnish
   Watco Wiping Varnish
   Formby's Tung Oil Finish
   Zar Wipe-on Tung Oil
   Val-Oil
   Hope's Tung Oil Varnish
   Gillespie Tung Oil
   Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish
   General Finishes' Arm R Seal
   Jasco Tung Oil

   One way to tell whether the product is an oil/varnish or a wiping varnish is to read the application instuctions. Oil/varnishes are applied, then given some time to set, then wiped dry. Wiping varnish products are wiped on an left to dry (no wiping off).

   For either of the above, you can mix your own using your own proportions, can it and sell it as "My Greatest Tung Oil Finish". Then announce a new product with slightly different proportion and call it "My Greatest Danish Oil Finish". We're not talking rocket science here.

   Finally, I'm not saying that any of these products are not good. In fact, they are a more protective and durable finish than any pure oil finish.  They are what they are and can give you a good finish when properly applied.

   (*) Thanks to Bob Flexner "Understanding Wood Finishes"

   Howie.........
1. 
   dukeone | Apr 30, 2006 05:07pm | #4

   Guys: All this info is good but I've missed the answer to this: is real Tung Oil a real good finish? Does it work good in a certain particular circumstance? Or was it the best thing available way back when?

   DukeKenneth Duke Masters

   The Bill of Rights December 15 1791 NRA Endowment Member

   LEAA Life Member

   CRPA Member

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 30, 2006 06:04pm | #5

   >>  real Tung Oil a real good finish? Does it work good in a certain particular circumstance? Or was it the best thing available way back when?

   No, it's not a good finish if you define at least part of the job of a finish to be protectionve.  Any pure oil, has little or no water or watervapor resistance nor does it have any abrasion resistance.  Nor, is it very long lasting--it must be frequently renewed.

   Pure oils can look good but requires many rubbed in coats to apply them and then need constant attention to maintain their appearence.  The old rule was one coat a day for a week; one coat a week for a month; one coat a month for a year; and one coat a year forever.

   Linseed oil was used by some old time finishers but it was all they had.  It does not last well and turns black after many years.  Tung oil was used in China, but it too was all they had.  Tung oil is slightly less amber than linseed oil and sllightly more water resistant.  But, it's not materially different from linseed oil.  The US Forest Services Forest Products Lab rates both the same as to protective qualities and that rating is only slightly better than a film of wax. 

   Any of todays finishes are far superior to either boiled linseed oil or tung oil as a stand alone finish. 

   Howie.........

   Edited 4/30/2006 3:57 pm ET by HowardAcheson

1. 
   dukeone | Apr 30, 2006 06:44pm | #6

   Thanks, Howie. Now I know the history and can see the progress that has been made. I can't imagine one coat a day for a week and on and on. Better living though chemistry, in some ways.

   DukeKenneth Duke Masters

   The Bill of Rights December 15 1791 NRA Endowment Member

   LEAA Life Member

   CRPA Member

1. 
   EddieM | May 20, 2006 04:47am | #7

   I had a bad experience using pure uncut Tung Oil while refinishing A Danish Teak dresser.  I started by sanding with 220 grit sandpaper and getting down to bare wood, i vacuumed the dust off-used a tack rag and went to finer grits and ended up with 440 grit sandpaper which I carefully dusted, and wiped with a tack rag my last step was wiping a rag dampened with mineral spirits.  When the surface  was completelydry. I took a new tack cloth and wiped again.  I felt the surface prep was great and gave it a coat of pure tung oil  waited 15 minutes and removed the excess oil.  It dried for 24 hours and the surface was rough so I repeated the sanding with fine grit paper and did the dusting again and put a second coat of Oil on--same results--the grain was raised.  I re-read the instructions on the can and finally saw that the manufacturer suggested that the oil be cut 4:1 with mineral spirits and I used it straight.   I called the manufacturer and spoke to their technical people and they told me  that the pure oil dries so slowly it is possible it raised the grain of the teak.   I now have to go through the whole process from the beginning..Any other suggestions?

   Thanks,

   Eddie M.

2. 
   SteveSchoene | May 20, 2006 05:36am | #8

   Yes, tung oil dries slowly, over night isn't long enough between coats.  And, its important to let it cure well before adding more coats since tung oil can turn white in the pores if not properly cured.  Thinning it makes very little difference in curing--and that only because thinner coats are more contact with the air.  Secondly you can't expect much out of a tung oil finish until you have applied abouit 5 coats--at least.  And, at the end of the day, you have a finish with minimal protective qualities. 

   Edited 5/21/2006 7:05 am ET by SteveSchoene

3. 
   EddieM | May 20, 2006 06:18am | #10

   Thanks for the info Steve, however, I was trying to fix one piece of a bedroom set and wanted it to match as close as possible.  I tried a sample of Watco Teak OIl on a scrap of Teak  and after three coats it looks great so I guess I'll go that way.

   Regards,

   EddieM

4. 
   dukeone | May 20, 2006 05:57am | #9

   Eddie: No suggestions from me other than it seems "pure" oil finish is not worth the trouble in most cases. It is hard enough learning woodworking itself without taking up finishing to a similar depth. Modern finishes seem to do just fine with less work and less recoating.

   DukeKenneth Duke Masters

   The Bill of Rights December 15 1791 NRA Endowment Member

   LEAA Life Member

   CRPA Member

5. 
   EddieM | May 20, 2006 06:22am | #11

   Duke,

   I appreciate the quick response, I agree with you, but I am trying to fix one piece of a bedroom set and I would like the pieces to match as close as possible.

   I tried some Watco Teak Oil on a fresh scrap of teak, and it looks pretty good.

   I try a few more things and then call it a day.

   Thanks for your input.

   Eddie

6. 
   dukeone | May 20, 2006 03:20pm | #12

   Good Luck, EddieKenneth Duke Masters

   The Bill of Rights December 15 1791 NRA Endowment Member

   LEAA Life Member

   CRPA Member