Hello all.
has anyone ever tried darkening cherry using artificial UV light?
I’m making a cherry bed out of some very nice curly cherry. Here’s the dilemma…. I cannot stain the wood because of the curl. A standard rubbed linseed oil finish looks really spectacular on my test peices. Only problem is the depth of color does not suit my wife, and she would prefer a darker finish. The piece will not be exposed to enough direct UV to darken it to the color she wants for quite a few years. So it occurred to me that it might be possible to complete the assembly and just before finishing to expose the wood to artificial UV light for a period of time. Just wondering if anyone has ever tried anything like this, and if so, what UV light source did you use?
Thanks,
Abe
Replies
I made a tray out of cherry and put it outside in the sunlight for a couple of hours. Darkened it up some.
I agree. 1 or 2 days outside in the sunlight will do wonders. Put a test piece outside and see, just cover half of it so you can compare. If you do put it outside make sure to turn it so it equals out. Peter
Abe,
I have had great success using a potassium dichromate solution to "darken" my cherry projects. Potassium dichromate is an oxidizing agent, and will add decades of aging to the wood, without obscuring the grain. I have used it on a highly figured shaker hall table, with spectacular results. Add 1/2t of chemical to 8oz of water, and apply (I prefer to treat before glue-up). Any topcoat can be used to finish your bed, including your linseed oil treatment. Use good protection (gloves, safety glasses), and experiment on some scrap wood before using on your project. I'm sure your wife will love the results. Good luck.
Take Care,
Dick
http://www.traderdicksfurniture.com
Potassium dichromate is also a strong carcinogen and shouldn't be used by anyone who doesn't know what they're doing. You need to understand the hazards and how to protect yourself and others before you even think of using it.
DP,
"Potassium dichromate is also a strong carcinogen and shouldn't be used by anyone who doesn't know what they're doing. You need to understand the hazards and how to protect yourself and others before you even think of using it."
I totally agree... hence my "use protection" warning. The bottom line is, woodworking is a dangerous hobby/profession. If you don't know how to operate power machinery, use solvents and chemicals in a safe manner... take up oragami.
I did not recommend using "safe" anilyne dyes since they will fade over time when exposed to UV, which the OP indicated would happen. Treating cherry with potassium dichromate will result in a permanent coloring without any pigment. But you must keep the solution from coming in contact with skin, and store any solution away from children... it looks like a yummy orange drink when mixed.
Take care,
Dick
http://www.traderdicksfurniture.com
I don't know about origami, I know someone who made a Teradactyl and got some wicked paper cuts. I don't even want to think about the tragic T-Rex incident.I made some picture frames with cherry about 10 years ago and had heard about Potassium Dichromate and it's hazards. I had also heard that lye will darken cherry, also with it's own dangers. Went all over the place looking for lye with no additives(like what's in drain cleaner)- no luck. I decided to try bleach. Darkened it instantly and reduced the contrast quite a bit. It will need to be rinsed off so no deposits are left over, but let it dry and then finish it. See what happens and your wife may like it.A black light isn't UV, it approaches UV. Looking at a UV light will cause blindness and I have never seen a warning sticker on a black light."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 2/8/2005 10:25 am ET by highfigh
"1/2t" - teaspoons or tablespoon? Thanks
Doug
One-half teaspoon of crystals to eight ounces of water. Makes enough for 3 to 4 mid-sized (side table) projects. Shelf life of 6 months if kept in a sealed, plastic container. Also, you may want to pre-raise the grain before applying the solution.
Let me know if I can help with anything else.
Take care,
Dick
http://www.traderdicksfurniture.com
Dick,
Thanks for the clarification and application procedures. I have a project in cherry con the boards and I want to experiment to see f I can get a more "aged" appaearance than exposing to light for several days. The last project I suntanned for 4 - 5 days and and got a nice result but not quite as deep as I wanted. Again, thanks.
Doug
At the risk of sounding the Pollyanna,Please, be very careful of using potassium dichromate, and consider using lye instead. Potassium dichromate is a class 4 (extreme) carcinogen. By comparison, gasoline is only a class 3 flammability hazard.If you're not concerned with your own health, consider that disposal of dichromate is very difficult. It is not legal to simply dump it down the drain, or bury it in your backyard. Consider what you will do with it when your project is finished.Sorry to preach, but if what we discuss here influences others, then I would prefer to err on the side of safety and environmental conscience.I doubt that you can tell the difference between the effect of dichromate vs lye. Tom
Edited 2/9/2005 11:54 am ET by tms
Darkening Cherry
Dick,
Could you (or anyone) say a little more about your method for darkening cherry? Is it one teaspoon of potassium dichromate to 8 oz of water? Does it raise the grain? Is sanding needed? There is already a wax and oil finish on my piece - does this matter for your method? I have a cherry chest of drawers that is too large to take outside. Thanks.
Have you thought about using a water-based aniline dye to color the wood? A dye has much smaller pigment size than a stain, and does not usually hide figure. In fact it often enhances it. When I make reproduction furniture using curly maple, I often use a very light violet "wash," meaning a very dilute dye, to "pop" the figure, and then use whatever other color dye I would use on top of that.
Stephen J. Gaal
Hmmm. Interesting idea.
As a result of some tips on this thread re detecting glue spots, I've got a black light on order, but don't expect it until tomorrow.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages/?msg=21708.1
I was also going to suggest the aniline dye approach. You've got me curious though. I may try rigging up an experiment with the black light and some scrap cherry to see if I can notice any darkening.
If you build it - he will come.
Abe,
Don't waste your money on chemicals or UV lights. Use the Sun -- works great and plenty cheap! I do it all the time with my cherry projects. Apply some thinned BLO with a little poly in it and let the Sun do the rest.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
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Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Bill
I couldn't agree with you more if I lived in Florida too. But us poor northerners haven't seen much sun in a while, and aren't likely to anytime soon. Even if we get a random sunny day, it's still pretty cold, damp, and humid so sticking furniture outdoors at this point isn't ideal. We're sometimes forced into looking for shortcuts and workarounds.If you build it - he will come.
"... I couldn't agree with you more if I lived in Florida too. But us poor northerners haven't seen much sun in a while, and aren't likely to anytime soon. ..."
Doug,
Well, we do have the advantage over you guys, don't we. At least until hurricane season! :-')
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
I have darkened cherry with lye and the results were dramatic. If you use lye, be sure to make several test pieces and try a number of dillutions. It doesn't take much.
In a pinch, you can also use crystaline drain cleaner. Just pick out the aluminum bits first. Like I said, it doesn't take much.
Tom
What did you wash the lye off with after? Was there any effect on the way the finish penetrated or held on?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I just washed the lye off with tap water. The grain was raised and I was able to successfully scrape it smooth, but I had darkened this piece quite a bit (more than I expected). It might be advisable to raise the grain first, as when using water based stains.The finish was Daly's Pro Fin, and there was no perceptible difference from any other application.Tom
Abe,
I wait a week or two after I complete a cherry peice before I finish.
The wood seems to darken quite a bit in that period of time.
I don't put it outside or in direct sunlight because I'm concerned that the surfaces
facing the sun might darken more than the other surfaces. I just store the unfinished
work in a safe place inside my home. I'm sure there are better ideas out there, but
this is my current method.
GRW
"... I don't put it outside or in direct sunlight because I'm concerned that the surfaces facing the sun might darken more than the other surfaces. ..."
When placing pieces in the Sun, I rotate them every hour or so to make sure all surfaces are covered.
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
I'm a big fan of using the sun to give cherry a nice color. I don't like dyes and stains and such. However, in dark seasons, sunlight isn't as available. I've had this fantasy of taking all my furniture componets to the local tanning salon and trying their man-made UV. It should work just the same. If you do use UV lights, let us know how it worked.
"... I've had this fantasy of taking all my furniture componets to the local tanning salon ..."
Easier yet -- replace all the flourescents in your shop with grow lights and work on your tan lines at the same time..... :-')
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
I use "EASYOFF" oven cleaner. Spray on from can, the rinse with a water vinegar solution. Wear gloves.
On reflection, it seems that your problem is most easily solved with aniline dyes added to tint your topcoat. The cherry will do its tricks best over time in the room where it will live, but your problem is one of showroom floor definition. It is essential to remember that cherry only gets darker over time.
If your wife would like it darker from the start then I would use a sealer and then tint my topcoat. A few drops of golden oak and burnt umber in a pint of water based clearcoat gives a wonderful surface to allow the cherry to age and deliver the patina. Do not refrain from rubbing the furniture you love.
re sized, Rusty
Leon Jester
Abe,
The old tanning lights from the '60's and earlier work well. Unfortunately, they are now illegal. They can be bought on ebay, however.
It is possible though to stain curly cherry without blotching or losing the chatoyance. Here is a link if you are interested. You'll have to read the text -don't let the picture discourage you.
http://www.miterclamp.com/radius/pages/Installationsection.htm#stainingtop
Regards,
jim
As TMS said . Oven cleaner works fine...I have graduated to sodium hydroxide. Same thing but without the soaps....
Its a trip to take a perfect chest out in the back yard and spray the sodium hydroxide on it and then hose it off...Gives it a great "not new" look.... then a few days later use a pentatrating/polymerizing oil of some sort, and rub it out with w/d paper or steel wool...
Actually,I suggested lye, or drain cleaner, someone else suggested oven cleaner. It makes little difference though, if you read the ingredient lists, you'll find that lye is comprised of sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide, and that oven cleaner is mostly sodium hydroxide.In any case, wear the neccessary personal protective equipment, gloves, glasses or faceshield, etc.Tom
If you have been married a short time, tell your wife to have patience. Cherry is photo-reactive, and as such, will be affected by direct or reflected light. I have a tavern shelf eight years old that is nearly as dark as the furniture reproductions from the NC makers. A buffet on the screen porch gets no direct sunlight and is one year old. It is already as dark as the clock posted above. No darkening agent was put on these projects, just clear finish.
There is nothing quite like naturally darkened cherry. If you like, I can post some pix for your wife to eyeball.
BTW, if you have been married a looong time, use one of the other suggestions; will be much better than counseling patience. |:)
What kind of clear finish did you use on the cherry?Jesse David
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before," Bokonon tells us. "He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
I have used tung oil, Antique Oil Finish, shellac and brushing lacquer. All semi-gloss or satin. There is no visible difference in end result with any of them so far. I'm probably being too picky about not adding color, but the curly cherry I have gotten the last couple of years is so nice, I hate to do anything else to it.
Abe
I was looking into this a while ago too, as it is too cold here to put anything in the sun. Taking your project to a tanning salon should work. It has to be one that has the tanning room versus the bed. I haven't done it yet, but seems like it would have the benefit of getting all sides evenly. Plus you get to check out the other customers while waiting.
I've done the lye (drain cleaner) thing before. The problem was trying to judge how long to leave it on, and the overlap between brush strokes was obvious. Hard to control the color is the bottom line. Just my opinion.
If the brush marks are obvious, you could dilute the solution more.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I'm using the water-based Hydrocote Danish Oil product from Highland Hardware on a cherry kitchen project with excellent results. For a protective surface I then apply several coats of Aqua Borne Ceramithane from the same source. The final finish darkens the cherry nicely, and doesn't hide any of the grain. I've also had good luck following the Hydrocote product with Sam Maloof Oil/Poly finish.
I've used lye drain cleaner followed by linseed oil in the past with dramatic results, but now prefer the above products as they're much more user friendly during application - don't have to wear rubber gloves and goggles.
I read a recent article in FWW in reference to using steelwool soaked in vinegar for darkening wood. The article showed pictures of before and after. I haven't tried it yet, but intend to. My only problem is I dont know if it has to be washed off after and if so, with what? Also, can you apply any finish after? If any have suggestions on this, I would greatly appreciate them.
Just put some steel wool in a jar of vinegar for a few days, strain it, and brush it on. After it dries you can use any topcoat you like, since nothing problematic is left on the wood. Test the reaction first, every species reacts differently.
By the way, darkening or weathering with lye is a great old-time recipe, but this one needs to be washed down with vinegar to neutralize it before going on with any topcoat. Any residue of the lye that is not neutralized can really screw up some varnishes.
DR
This may sound dumb but I read somewhere it's indirect light (and oxygen exposure) that actually will do most of the darkening. Doesn't seem to make sense to me but there you have it. If you are to leave your project for a while before finishing make sure to check on it. I read about the guy who left a table out in the sun and the paper boy came by and put the paper on it. When the builder came back most of the table had a nice uniform color except for under the paper. Doh!
There are more old drunkards than old doctors. Ben Franklin
"This may sound dumb but I read somewhere it's indirect light (and oxygen exposure) that actually will do most of the darkening. Doesn't seem to make sense to me but there you have it. "
Dumb??? I guess I'm dumb then because the first step in finishing cherry is placing the parts or completed assembly in the Sun for several hours. May not make sense to some folks but it works.
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Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
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