I am restoring my old 51 MGTD and am considering a new lacewood dashboard. Any advice on a very high gloss finish that will be somewhat UV and weather resistant?
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Replies
I would look at a spar varnish like epifanes, if you live near a west marine they have this product as well as their house brand that is made by epifanes. A friend of mine swears by Petits brand of Spar Varnish.
Troy
Do you have spray equipment? If so then you could go for high UV resistance and weatherability by using an automotive clear. Dewaxed shellac should make a suitable sealer material.
I do have spray equipment, but have never used automotive stuff on wood. I have shot lots of PPG Deltron clear coat on my non wood projects, might try a sample over shellac. Don't know how compatible they are.
Greg
As long as the shellac is allowed to cure out there will be no problems. It is infamous for it's ability to promote adhesion between any two dissimilar materials. Deltron should work just fine over shellac.
The point of the shellac is really to serve as a sanding sealer. Otherwise you could just shoot the Deltron right on the wood. Think of the shellac as a clear version of an automotive acrylic primer/surfacer.
The other way you could go would be to use Sherwin Williams' vinyl wood sealer. Vinyl sealer's reputation as a mid-coat adhesion promoter is second only to shellac's. SW recommends that their vinyl sealer be catalyzed if it's going to be used under a catalyzed topcoat. It's not necessary, but is recommended. It'd probably be somewhat quicker over all since it wouldn't have to be as well cured before you could topcoat over it.
Thanks. Is there anything in the finishing world that can't be done with shellac! What a great NEW invention. Think I'll try it with the Deltron, that way I don't have to buy anything I don't already have.
Greg
ggm
I have both a 1950 and a 1953 the 1953 has a black walnut dash I did with epiphanes back in 1970 and it still looks great.
My 1950 is a work in progress. It's going to be a very proper British hot rod..
Jaguar V12 engine trans, suspension, MGTD body Pin drive knock offs from the Chapperal MK1
One tiny bit of trivia?
The 1950 MGTD and Jaguar XKE's thru 1971 have the same track width.
That's gonna have a Burl oak dash. same epiphanes finish..
A Jag v12 in a 50TD! Hold on! Last restored mine in 73, due for another one now. Temporarly out of wood projects.
GGM,
Yeh I know but I've got the remnants of all of those lying about and I really like the idea of a hotrod so ...
Believe it or not the V12 will fit under the hood (er bonnet) Yeh, I do lose the tool box and battery etc.. but there should even be room for my legs.
What's worse I can go with Fuel injection, 4 side draft Strombergs or 6 twin choke downdraft Weber IDA's (the IDF's are going to remain on my XK-E V12 roadster race car for vintage racing)
I've also got a set of NASCAR brakes from Martinsville adapted to the Jag uprights so if I want to stop the queen Mary from sliding down Mt.Everist my brakes won't fade..
(actaully it's just an excuse to get rid of some of the stuff I've got crowding my garage)..
Go with the Weber's, they look so cool!
ggm
Now Webers will require 12 holes in the bonnet..
That's what hole saws are for.
GGM,
Too brutal, chassis punch! perfect circle!
Anything but SUs, I really liked Webers in my VW & 356 Porsche days. I'd love to run them on my SB Chevy but the setup costs twice as much as I paid for the Mr. Goodwrench crate motor.
There's a local Panterra that has 4 Weber side drafts, 2 per side sitting on top of what looks to be a Holley Dominator. The Webers are gutted and just for show. Takes all kinds I guess.
Don't forget the 2nd Corolary to Lucas's 1st Law of Automotive Electrics which states "No matter how hard one trys, one cannot get all that smoke back into that little black box" :) BTW - I learned this constantly working on my best friend's MGA, MGB, MGC and my Mom's Lotus Cortina. I was too little to work on, but remember riding in her TF when I was very young. John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
elcoholic.
I Love SU's. Anything designed by plumbers for an engine simply has to be cool. Got 'em on my MGTD, my "D"type Jaguar.. I Know that most "D" types had either webbers or FI But I have a rare aftermarket supercharger for mine. Hanging off the side of it are three 2inch SU's. Now at some point these had to have been converted to FI because there isn't a floatbowl on any of them nor is there room for one..
Information is extremely sketchy and highly suspect. However the best I've been able to deduce is that this was designed by an off shoot of BRM when they went belly up following their early unsuccesful involvement in Formula 1 racing..
Without an intercooler I'm guessing based on trace evidence this was designed for alcohol based fuel. According to computer engineering it should raise the horsepower from approximately 250 hp to near 400 hp, which while not monumental in todays society it's enormace for 1950's
All of this may be moot.. To be allowed in major FIA sanctioned events documentation will need to be found that this particular "D" type had that modification performed in the era.
While I do Have two signed and noterized statements to that effect I doubt that will prove to be sufficent documentation to satisfy the ruling body with this matter..
Currantly I have hired a research techniction to go thru the records of BRM for this period to find whatever sort of documentation they may have on record. Given their volitile history it's possible the documentation I seek is sketchy at best.. remember this was during BRM's fincial reorganization period and they were often just one step ahead of the courts..
I do have a record of the castings involved dated from the era but nothing to satisfy the authorities that those castings went on this chassis..
Hey frenchy,
I second the Webers. That would look very cool! Besides aren't Strombergs kind of finicky? After all, with that rig you'll want to be cruising, not tweaking. :) Oh, I know. Wooden velocity stacks.......... Boy, I wish I could hang in your shop.
Have fun with it, Paul
Paul,
Strombergs have an undesired poor reputation for being finicky.. usually the only problem with them is the rubber diaphragm that replaces the piston in an SU is cracked and leaks causing poor running.. remove the screws holding the tops of the chambers and pull off the rubber.. look near the edges for any cracks and if you see any replace the rubber and reassemble.. 3 or 4 minutes max.
Webers are cool but extremely expensive to tune.. You need to buy 12 jets and 12 air correction valves plus idle jets and mixture jets times 12.. Not to mention air choke changes as well as air horn lengths..
Basic setting up Webers can easily be $400.00 or more and that's if you are spot on with your calculations, if you miss and need to change things it's another $400.00
It's not uncommon for a well equipped team to have more than 20 sets for various conditions.. and as many a six sets of air chokes and 6 sets of air horn lengths.
The advantage SU's and Strombergs have over the Weber is that piston adjusts according to atmospheric conditions. If you want to change mixtures anyplace on the power curve all you change is the needle which is relatively affordable compared to the same stuff in Webers. Atmospheric changes call for jet and air correction changes on a set of Webers..
There is one other advantage strombergs have over webers.. It's tuned length..
The intake path on Strombergs is tuned for Low RPM running and helps boost the midrange torque. Because of hood restrictions the webers offer no such tuned length advantage. The barbs would need to be another 4 1/2 inches in the air to even aide at tuned length assistance at 8000 rpm. if you wanted to tune it for 4500 to 6000 rpm you'd need to add another 2 3/8ths to that.
Given how long a Weber IDA is compared to the IDF's I have for my V12 race car we're looking at something nearing 16 inches with proper length air horns.. It would wind up being a pretty massive hood bulge..
Wow frenchy,
Like I said.....would love to hang out at your shop :). My son is restoring a 1968 Ford Torino( too bad it's not the 427 cobra jet) All I can do is watch , listen and learn.
Paul
colebearanimals,
Given the price some are paying for ghost cars at the Barret Jackson auction if your son wanted to convert it to a 427 Cobra Jet I'm sure it would dramatically increase it's value all out of proportion to what the converson would cost..
I think the only spending bit would be the 427 side oiler block. I'm sure given the popularity of the 427 cobra kit cars they are in really high demand.. which may not be all bad. I mean sooner or later someone is going to come out with that casting as well.
frenchy,
True. The American muscle car interest has gotten crazy over the last few years. You've made an interesting suggestion here. He's not to far along in the project to take this path. We'll have to look into this. Maybe even a Talladega conversion.(?)Now, if I can only figure out how to apply shellac over the candy apple red. :) Seriously, thanks
Paul
Edited 3/17/2007 2:15 pm ET by colebearanimals
I had a '72 Triumph GT6 with two side draft Stromburgs and of course the Lucas electrics. Never had any problems with the carburation or electrical system. Did replace two cluster gears though. Drove it around with no reverse for quite some time while in college. Even got me to the Who concert at the Carrier Dome!
Wish I still had that car.
You might also consider Interlux marine varnish. A very nice finish.
I've used catalyzed lacquer (Duravar) for the dash and console on a Triumph. Concours would flunk it but it still looks good, several years on. That's with the top down and plenty of rain!
Regards.
I would not recommend any kind of varnish for this kind of work, especially a spar varnish. Spar varnish never completely hardens and can't be rubbed out.
The original finish was nitrocellulose lacquer. I would use that or CAB Acryllic. I recommend Sherwyn Williams. Use their high solids vinyl sanding sealer.
The sequence is:
Sand the lacewood to 220 grit. Stain to your liking with aniline stain in alcohol. Lightly scuff sand any raised grain. Shoot 2 light coats of vinyl sealer, sanding any raised grain.
Fill with silex pore filler stained a medium to dark brown. I suggest Behlen's Por-o-pac, walnut tint. Apply with a rag or brush, rubbing with the grain. Let dry until the surface of the excess filler looks leathery. Remove using coarse rags, burlap if available, rubbing across the grain. Use a plastic scaper across the grain if necessary. Get all the filler off the wood, leaving it only in the pores. Then another coat of sealer. Then scuff sand lightly.
Day 1 - shoot three light, but fully-wet applications of lacquer about an hour apart.
Day 2 - level sand the lacquer with 320 grit, shoot 3 light lacquer coats as before.
Day 3 - level sand with 320. Shoot 3 coats as before.
Next day, level sand with 320. Then begin rubbing out with waterproof paper lubricated with either mineral spirits or water (a qt containing a drop of dishwashing detergent).
Start with 400 grit, then 600, 800, 1000-1200. Obtain a completely uniform, even scratch pattern at each grit. Carefully wash with the same lubricant between each grit, removing all residue and abrasive. Remove every trace of the previous sanding pattern with each higher grit.
Then automotive rubbing compound (red), then polishing compound (white) then swirl remover. Admire your face in the gloss surface.
Piece of cake!
Rich
Rich
This looks like another good approach. Think the spar varnish will be hard to obtain that mirror finish and don't want a yellowing appearance in the coming years. I have never used lacewood before, but it does appear to have a very interesting look. I think if I finish it with just clear, it will look very much like my tan leather interior. I'm not going for an all out original look even though the car is entirely original. What do you think about a 1st coat of linseed to pop that unusual grain / pore structure followed by 1# shellac?
Will the acrylic hold up as well as the automotive clear coats?
Greg
greg,
You are describing quite a mix of finishes.
As I said before, forget varnish. Especially spar varnish. Spar varnish is absolutely the worst finish to use for such a project. It stays soft forever. It is never meant for rubbing out, and that is a must for the look you want.
I suggested either nitrocellulose (because that's what the original was) or CAB Acrylic for their ease of application and durability. Nitro will yellow, CAB Acryllic is water white and will not yellow. Neither will stand up as quite as well as automotive acrylic (nothing will). But that takes special equipment to apply and lots of previous experience. Either nitro or CAB Acrylic should do just fine, but if you are versed in using automotive acrylic, do it.
I believe frenchy has experience with automotive finishes. Maybe he'll chime in here.
Linseed is great to use to develop the color of the wood. Use it after sanding, under the sanding sealer. Shellac will work as a sanding sealer, but I recommend the lacquer manufacturer's companion vinyl sanding sealer.
Rich
edit: I don't know what your sample of lacewood looks like. I've never been happy with any lacewood project I did. I just don't like that wood. I believe that car had a walnut dashboard, no?
Edited 3/16/2007 7:47 pm ET by Rich14
Rich,
You should try working with automotive clears sometime. I think you'd be surprised at how easy they are to work with. The same equipment you'd use to spray lacquer will work just great to spray automotive clears. They behave a bit different than lacquer and a somewhat different technique is required, but other than that they are really quite easy to work with. Mostly they just don't flow out as well as lacquer and you have to lay it on a bit wetter is all.
I'll have to try it. Never have. I wonder if I'll ever use it on furniture. Maybe. Rich
Rich,
Yes I do, however my black walnut dash is covered in spar varnish (epiphanes) and nearly 37 years after I put it on it still looks great..
OK. Spar Varnish. What do I know? Live and learn. Spar varnish for high gloss!
Yes black walnut is the choice most make for a dash, but I couldn't,t find a nice piece in my local area. Found this piece of lacewood and kind of liked it. It may be the Aussie type, fairly small flecks very uniform and rather dense. With a little alcohol wiped on the flecks give a very pleasant soft brown/tan leathery look. What the heck, might as well give it a try it's a pretty small project.
Got to have the SU's on my TD. That way everything works as well as the Lucas (AKA Prince of Darkness) electrics.Greg
ggm,
I've gotta say that my MG is the most reliable fun car I own. Even today after sitting for more than a decade since I last vintage raced it, I could charge the battery, add gas and it would start up with no fuss.. I could then drive it anyplace there's a road and not worry about it.. darn reliable car.. when MG ran the 24 hours of Le Mans with them they weren't fast but they were stone reliable.. same with Sebring.. they weren't as fast as the competition but they finished without drama and so they scored well.
I've vintage raced it since 1976 and never once has it DNF'd. (Did Not Finish) It's the one that I need to give the least effort to in preping for a race and always has me in a race where I get the most smiles.. Maybe it's because I had a race long dice with a MGA or because there was a TC that just kicked my butt on the straights but couldn't corner as fast as I could so we'd pass each other 10 times a lap. (Extremely hard on my face since I have such a great big grin on during the whole race)
MY prince of darkness electrics work perfectly on everthing except the windshield wipers and that's because I never went into them during the restoration.. I'm 100% certain that if I took it apart, cleaned it up and reassembeled it they too would be flawless.
My first car was a MGTD so I'm very much a fan of MG's
I have the same problem, windshield wipers and the clock. Maybe I'll try to fix both on this restoration. I was too young without enough money on the last round.
Greg
ggm
The wipers are usually simple, disasemble clan and polish contacts. Lube the bearings where it goes thru the case. Seldom any parets really needed.
the clock usually needs new contacts and a good cleaning..
Just chiming in with my 2 cents worth here...
Lacewood is one of my current favorite woods and I have several pieces that I've incorporated Lacewood into. I've not tried linseed oil but I did try some Walnut oil on some scrap and I didn't care for it at all. The Walnut oil seemed to darken the pores more than without and to my eye it distracted from that beautiful lace effect.
There are at least two different species that get marketed as "Lacewood." One more commonly than the other, although I have seen the two mixed together in the same bin and all labeled as "Lacewood." Which struck me as odd because the other less common one (at least around here) also goes by the name "Australian Fishtail Oak" and is noticibly denser with smaller, tighter pore structure and is noticably darker than the other species. From your description it sounds like you've got the regular Lacewood, which is the one that I use too.
The lacey flecks really soak up the finish in my experience. Much more so than the rest of the wood. I've got a piece sitting right next to me that's made of Lacewood with Wenge accents and everything has a decent, albeit somewhat thin, finish appearance except for the lacey flecks in the lacewood. It needs another coat of finish because they don't pop as well until they're completely filled. An earlier piece I did had a much heavier finish on it and the flecks really popped on that one. Both have pre-cat lacquer on them, btw.
A good way to find out how the Lacewood is going to look is to just get it wet with something mild like Mineral Spirits and view it while it's still very wet. That'll be a pretty good indicator of how it would look with nothing more than a high gloss finish on it.
Good luck!
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