I was given a piano over the weekend by a friend who didn’t have room for it anymore. There were several things to be fixed, the top, the cover for the keys, and the bench all needed a little work. After a few hours, i was pretty happy with the results.
One thing i noticed was there was not a single phillips screw anywhere, all flatheads. Which makes me think that it’s rather old. Pre 1950’s i’m thinking.
My questions’s are,
1.) When did the phillips screw come into common use, i know that it was patented in the 30’s, and the patent ran out in 66, but i couldn’t find any info on when it became popular.
2.) What other things can i look for to try and date it? I didn’t see any marking on top with a date. Is there someone here that could tell from a picture?
Just curious.
Replies
I wouldn't want to date a piano. They're too short, heavy and are not good conversationalists.
I've worked on pianos from the 1960s without any phillips screws. They tend not to use them because they strip too easily. The finish is a clue. Crazed at all anywhere? Chippy or tough? There's sometimes a date on the casting. Sometimes a label or handwritten date inside. Style of the case is a clue. Brand name? Pictures?
Find a website or some local person who knows what to look for in pianos. I'm sure there are some tell tale clues that the right person would know about.
Try this page. http://www.ptg.org/index.html
There is a book "The Pierce Piano Atlas" which can help you identify the piano and it's age.
Mikkimel, used to date a girl with piano legs but she had nice teeth (88 I remember) I worked at Steinway's repair studio on west 57th st up untill '95, and they still had used slotted screws.
I think the Japanese pianos had/have phillips screws.
The old Steinway craftmen were virtuosos always lined up all those slotted screw heads on those piano hinges. Stein.
My dad and I restored an old player upright piano that we owned in1947. Replaced all the rotted rubber hoses on the keys and roller ports with clear plastic flex tubing.
Also refurbished the air pump bellows and even attached an old vacuum hose to run it automatically. Too noisy, but fun any way.
I still remember the words to the song; 'On the Banks of the Wabash.'... Oh, the moonlight's fair tonight along the etc etc . From the fields there comes the ....newmown hay...
Through the Sycamores the cand...... AAAAh... (the wife slugged me with a wet dishrag !)
Stein.
Edited 2/23/2004 4:51:35 PM ET by steinmetz
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
What ya need to do is open the top..(if an upright) and look on the steel string support or the sound board. A mafg. name and Serial # is how you will date it..
I bought a house that had an old Wing and Sons piano in it..found out that with work, it is quite valuble..good luck
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I have an old upright piano that my mom unfortunately "antiqued" green in 1964. The date and manufacturer are cast into the metal of the sounding board. Just thought I'd offer that up for what it's worth. I plan on stripping and refinishing it this summer. Not looking forward to it, but looking forward to the results if everything turns out. The keys are real ivory. They're chipped, but I still play by feeling and knowing the chips because it's the piano I learned to play on. I like the feel of the ivory, and I'm nostalgic. Good luck.
I have an old upright piano that my mom unfortunately "antiqued" green in 1964. The date and manufacturer are cast into the metal of the sounding board. Just thought I'd offer that up for what it's worth. I plan on stripping and refinishing it this summer.
You may be able to strip it such that you preserve the finish underneath. If you work quickly in small areas you may be able to just remove the antiquing paint. I have done this on things where the finish underneath was worth the effort.Gretchen
the steel string support just has a little harp on it, and "est 1880", the company is Ivers and Pond, couldn't find any other dates.
I may give that website a shot.
thanks folks!
Patents and Est. dates are no good..you want the serial no. google the co. name and you wil find out some info. have fun. it is educational..
View Image
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I used to rebuild pianos as a job through college. You will need the serial number off the plate (the cast metal harp). With that number you can reference the piano atlas mentioned before to find the year.
If you're going to date a musical instrument, I say you should date a Les Paul electric guitar. It's got some not-too-subtle curvy shapes. If you work the BB King vibrato just right and you've got the amplifier set just right, you can get the famous Les Paul "woman" tone.
Shoot, if the liberals have their way, it should only be a matter of time before you can go to San Francisco and get married to your musical instrument.
...sorry, couldn't resist,...Just joking after a long day of making sawdust building my first "paid commision."
I think it would be great to date a piano. They're such stay-at-home types...
CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Yeah, but have you seen this?
That's a birds-eye maple carved top and a very slender, playable neck.
Oh you'll want to take her out on the town, all right,...
She's a sweetheart, no doubt. Here's MY baby...I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Wow, my jpg is huge, but yours has the same file size; how'd that happen?
Charlie
I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I've got a cheap camera and I shrink the file size with Camedia on Macintosh.
My apologies to the original thread,...
That's an unusual guitar, Charlie. I've been sitting here staring at it trying to figure out are those nylon strings? That's an acoustic pickup, right? Anyway, cool beans. I like it. I've been trying to learn the song "How Many More Times" by Led Zeppelin during breaks today. Being bit by the Zep bug was reason enough to drag out the Les Paul. That song is fun to play on electric guitar - really balls to the wall playing. Like much of the Zeppelin blues stuff, I think they stole a lot of it from delta blues.
Ed,
It's my first electric. Pickup is from...(drum roll please)...
...a '59 Les Paul, commonly referred to as a PAF, whch stands for Patent Applied For. Bought it from a guy who was cash-desperate years ago when I was working in a small town music store. Body is poplar, fingerboard and bridge are from leftover oak flooring, the pickguard is a piece of linoleum tile I snagged at HD for 99 cents, and the neck:
I was discarding a demolished deck and noticed a guy throwing away a broken down old table. I thought to myself "Holy Crow! That looks like mahogany!" I ran over but alas, it was just a veneer. I was leaving but thought to myself "Y'know...that table looks pretty old; it might have been made before plywood, certainly before particle board..." So I went to look and Lo! It was gorgeous QS maple under all that mahogany veneer. So, I made the neck from that.
It's kind of irreverent toward lutherie, but I kind of like that.
I'm a Mac user, too, by the way. Where did you come by that software?
Charlie
.I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Well it's a very nice guitar, Charlie. The bridge is what threw me. For awhile I was trying to convince myself it was a bass, then maybe a baritone guitar. Very cool style.
Camedia software - bundled with low-end Olympus digital cameras. Mine's a 1.3 megapixel. Ed
Hello,
If you are ever given a piano that is too far gone to restore,take it apart. The main frame or back of the piano makes a good workbench top. It is a lot harder to take a piano apart than I thought. I remember a tv show in the 1960's that the contestants destroyed a piano with sledge hammers and put the parts through a hole in the wall. The one with the shortest amount of time won. It was a waste.
I kept the ivory and ebony from the one I dismantled. The parts have been added to small boxes I make.
There are a number of piano repair forums out there.They make interesting lurking.A group of crazies I once provided trucking for were paid by the Canada Council(a cultural support agency)to record the death throes of a Willis upright grand.It sounded like a subway train being draged through a 6 inch pipe.The title was "Twezling Snarlls". Anyway check out the forums.
Art
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