Replies

1. 
   Don01 | Jan 27, 2008 04:23am | #1

   BG,

   Most shop vacs have the filter in front of the fan and motor. In order to discharge most of the vac dust into the dust collector you would have to remove the shop vac internal filter. This will cause issues with the fan and motor. I do not recommend doing this.

   You shop vac blower is a vacuum unit designed to move only reasonably clean air. The dirt and debris fall out of the air stream before the filter. I believe some of that air is routed around the motor to keep it cool. If you plug up theses channels, your motor will melt and you will have no warranty.

   You dust collector has a big open material handling style impeller designed to moves air, dust sawdust and occasionally, but not desirable, pieces of wood, nails screws, rags. The motor is separate and has its own cooling fan.

   The DC material separation and filtration happens in an after chamber.

   Craftsman for one, use to sell a HEPA grade bag which you put in the canister, then install the fan/filter unit on top. This would give you better filtration especially if you install a HEPA grade filter cartridge, The first stage filter bag can be remove and cleaned as required, the second stage cartridge may last a number of years before needing replacing.

   Don

   
   

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   Edited 1/26/2008 8:25 pm ET by Don01

1. 
   BG | Jan 27, 2008 01:26pm | #3

   Don,
   I guess I need to get over to the BBS and see what they offer for my Rigid 6.5 shop vac. They do offer the hepa filters but I'm not sure that won't clog quickly....and then I create a mess cleaning it..don't you just hate new converts, overnight they're purists...lol.

1. 
   Don01 | Jan 27, 2008 05:26pm | #5

   BG,
   Structurally there is not a big difference in Rigid and Craftsman. If Rigid don't make a bag, try the Craftsman bag.As Al noted, Oneida make a mini cyclone that sits between the dirt and your shop vac. ClearVue also make one, I don't know if Penn State do. My brother-in-law bought the ClearVue product. It works very well. He is remodeling his home and has it in his basement sometimes connected to a Dewalt DW735 planer, sometimes to his band saw. The 5 gallon pail sees a lot of material, the shop vac very little.Don

1. 
   BG | Jan 28, 2008 02:04pm | #7

   Don,
   Let me take another shot at this because I'm coming at this from a different angle (probably the wrong angle). I don't want to let you and others, who have contributed to this thread, walk away without dumping on me all your good knowledge.My objective is to reduce the amount of particulate floating in the air especially after sanding. Most people do this by hanging an air cleaner from the ceiling. The air cleaner has progressively finer filters in sequence that the air passes through...initially about a 30 micron filter and the last filter being 5 micron or better. I'm guessing this series of filters is designed to help maintain the efficiency of the system.eg. if you reversed the order of the filters the 5 micron would quickly become clogged and air would not pass through efficiently.I noticed an appreciable difference in air quality when using the DC over the shop vac. The primary reason for the difference in air quality is, of course, the filtering difference between the two. I'm also assuming the main source of the shop vac dust is the discharge shoot. So here is where my squirrelly thinking began. The first question was why can't I get better filtering of dust at the discharge shoot of the shop vac.? As you and others have pointed out, I can by swapping out the filter for a better one. However, that will decrease my shop vac efficiency unless I keep it free of dust. So I started to think maybe I could set up the equivalent of an air cleaner by connecting the discharge shoot of the shop vac to the DC...but don't turn the DC on. This then provides an additional filtering of the air at a much smaller micron level while not effecting the efficiency of the shop vac?

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 28, 2008 03:10pm | #8

   I have the same Rigid Vac. you have. Heps filter and I also use the paper bag for the Rigid. At the Big Box $12.00 for two? I forget.I had a Jet (the small one) I gave it to the local school wood shop (I think they have closed ALL shop classes for the girls and boys.. Even BAND! What a shame.My Rigid with the bag and hep filter works better than the Jet ever did but there is still some dust exhausted. I'd put a hose through the wall to the outside but not sure what my neighbors would think of that!I never tried it.. but I have thought about a water pre-cleaner they use for dry-wall sanding before the vaccum. That dry-wall dust is very fine and just may work.. Maybe this summer I'll give it a try???By the way.. I was born with your 'squirrelly thinking'

   Edited 1/28/2008 7:12 am by WillGeorge

2. 
   saschafer | Jan 28, 2008 05:25pm | #9

   I think your basic reasoning is sound, but what people are trying to tell you is that there are better ways to achieve the desired results:

   1) Get a shop vac that can accept a bag. The bag will act as the "coarse" filter, and then a HEPA filter on the vacuum motor will act as the "fine" filter.

   2) Use a Dust Deputy or other prefilter in front of the shop vac. Again, the prefilter acts as the "coarse" filter, and the HEPA filter in the vacuum is the "fine" filter.

   -Steve

    

3. 
   Don01 | Jan 28, 2008 06:19pm | #10

   BG,
   By not running the DC you would need a dust tight seal to ensure you are forcing the dust into the DC piping. That is going to put extra load on your shop vac and reduce efficiency as much as having the extra filtration at the fan.
   You have 2 machines that really have different functions. While they both collect dust and debris, the Shop Vac is a universal motor that is not really made for continuous operation. It operates best in short burst cycles. Your dust collector has a big induction motor that can run all day, all week without getting to worked up.
   Don't confused big vacuum with big air movement.
   Instead of creating a big piping exercise why don't you try connecting your sanding operation directly to the DC. You could build or buy a downdraft sanding table or you can connect sander through reduction fittings to one port of you DC and setup a 4" movable hood near where you are sanding through a second. Not ideal but better than what you have, but you will benefit from the bigger air movement generated by the DC.
   Upgrade the filtering in your shop vac and only use it for little cleanup jobs. You still want to get this dust source under control. I still support the HEPA bag over the HEPA filter as a good solution. If Rigid doesn't have one, then get a Craftsman. Don't be fooled by the apparent efficiency of your DC. Find yourself a 3M distributor and get yourself 3 or 4 3M 8293 P100 or equal disposable respirators. Mine cost CAD$7.65 each.Expensive compared to the hardware store offerings, but way cheaper than a set of lungs.Even with a 1 micron bag on your DC, you will start to see a nice coating of flour like dust collecting - especially around the DC where there is lots of static. If you do enough of this you will be looking for a good cyclone soon. Don

4. 
   BG | Jan 29, 2008 12:15am | #12

   All,
   Thank you all for your insightful comments. Here is what I'm gong to do:1. Buy HEPA filter and bag for shop vac2. Hook up DC to dust collection directly3. Look into building down draft table 4. Feed squirrels it's a little too cold up here to but my $3.00 gallon air out the window...lol

5. 
   Al from Unionville | Jan 28, 2008 06:53pm | #11

   BG,
   for what it is worth, here is what I came up with. I have my portable sanders hooked up to the house central vac system (vac unit is located in the garage and has a hepa filter). The manufacturere assures me that I will not harm the unit with fine dust. I was still getting dust in the air; obviously not from vacuum discharge but because the sander does not capture all the dust. So here is what I did which made a tremendous difference in air quality:
   I hooked a "Big Gulp" table saw DC chute to a 5 inch hose coming off of my Oneida portable and position it on my workbench near the sanding. I then constructed a "cage" from cardboard box pieces that sits around the Big Gulp providing wings to better direct the air flow. Where I previously noticed dust in the air from sanding I notice none now. A lot of what the sander misses is sucked into the DC inlet. Additionally, when I am finished sanding a panel I just swipe my work bench broom across the panel and direct the dust that was sticking to the panel into the DC inlet. You can see an actual cloud of dust being sucked up, notwithstanding that the sander was hooked up to the vacuum.I have also found this effective, but not nearly perfect, for collecting my circular saw waste when I am making rough cuts to bring sheet material down to size for final trimming on the table saw. / Al

2. 
   davidbrum | Jan 28, 2008 02:30am | #6

   You can get a HEPA pleated filter at HD for around $40.  It is called Cleanstream and is made specifically for the Rigid.  The filter material is GoreTex (Teflon coated) so whereas it does clog if you're doing lots of sanding, it releases the dust really easily.  When I clean mine, I just stick it inside of a trash bag and bang it a few times.  The dust falls off pretty well and doesn't fly around the shop.

   BTW, the HEPA filter exhausts noticeably cleaner air. 

2. 
   Al from Unionville | Jan 27, 2008 06:28am | #2

   Oneida has a Dust Deputy that sits in front of your shop vac and collects the small particles prior to them clogging your shop vac filter (I have not used one of these but am intrigued) / Al

3. 
   benhasajeep | Jan 27, 2008 04:27pm | #4

   Sorry, just noticed you have a 1 micron canister already.  That was my original idea. 

   
   

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   Edited 1/27/2008 8:29 am ET by benhasajeep