Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 27, 2004 08:59pm | #1

   mmx.03937=dec. in.  19mmx.03937=0.74803 in.

   just so y'all know that too..

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
1. 
   beck4000 | Jan 27, 2004 11:11pm | #2

   Gee was only trying to help people!If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 27, 2004 11:37pm | #3

   me too..wassa matta?

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

1. 
   beck4000 | Jan 28, 2004 05:03pm | #25

   Nutin, am joiking wit ya!If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh

2. 
   JsHerbel | Jan 28, 2004 12:44am | #4

   For years I have been meaning to make a table like this so that I didn't have to figure equivalents on the calculator all the time, thanks, I printed this off.

3. 
   fredsmart48 | Jan 28, 2004 12:51am | #5

   Why do I want to know or need know that when working in wood?  I have yet to see any wood working projects that you would need to measure in ten thouseand of a inch.

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 28, 2004 12:57am | #6

   hey Fred just because the decimal goes to 4 places don't mean YOU have to use them all..Beck was being helpful, you were being ingrateful.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

2. 
   jimmyk | Jan 28, 2004 12:58am | #7

   One example: box joints. If you're doing 3/4" box joints, the cut needs to be .751 and the box needs to be .749 to total 1.500". (of course it could be .752 and .748 or more as long as it totals 1.500") If you're off .005" on each for 10 joints the last box will be off .050" and you'll never get the thing together without splitting the wood of using a lot of putty.

3. 
   forestgirl | Jan 28, 2004 02:52am | #9

   Jeez Louise, Fred, go find your rock and crawl back under it!  I've been wanting a chart like this for a long time!  I use digital calipers to measure wood and other items, and a decimal equivalent chart will be VERY handy.

   [OK, OK, OK:  I violated my own personal on-line forum rule "Be nice, or at least civil, even when someone else isn't." !!  I will re-phrase the above: 

   "Dear Fred, why so grumpy?  Beck was just doing some of us a good deed, for which we are appreciative.  Sorry to butt in here, but I just get rattled when someone does something nice, and gets knocked up side the head for it."

   There.....better?  OK, I'll go write on the blackboard 100 times "I will not be rude, I will not be rude."

   forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

   Edited 1/31/2004 10:23:08 AM ET by forestgirl

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 28, 2004 02:56am | #10

   YEAH!!!  What You said!!!  YEAH...go girl..lol..<G>

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

2. 
   JackWoody | Jan 29, 2004 06:08am | #32

   Why convert at all? Do you not buy the wood based on the imperial system. Do you go to Canada to buy wood, have it shipped from Europe?  Are your project plan schematics measured in the decimal system?

   And geez louise, Why do you NOT have calipers that measure in inches.

   1/64" is as close as needed for material that can move/change that much or more on it's own overnight.

   go climb a tree.

   Edited 1/28/2004 10:11:16 PM ET by JackWoody

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 29, 2004 10:03am | #35

   "Go climb a tree."  Uhhh, not at my age, thanks for the vote of confidence though, ROFL!!

   As to the rest of your post, I have no idea what you're ranting about.  I never said anything about converting to/from metric.  My calipers measure in either -- a simple press of the button, but that has nothing to do with the chart idea. 

   forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

   Edited 1/29/2004 2:07:30 AM ET by forestgirl

1. 
   JackWoody | Jan 31, 2004 04:00am | #44

   DECIMAL EQUIVALENTS  (from the first post). The subject is decimal conversion of fractions. (see first post/chart.

    and a decimal equivalent chart will be VERY handy.

   I never said anything about converting to/from metric

   Show me where I mentioned any thing "metric"? Are your project plan schematics measured in the decimal system?

    (Are you all ready up a tree, or just high? What wood does your forest consist of? Must be pretty dense.)

    My calipers measure in either   you're mention of metric

   Geez Louise, Fred, go find your rock and crawl back under it! .....   and there's no need to stomp on a guy for posting such a reference

   what'd you do, fall out of the tree to stomp on Fred this hard? 

   "Why will it be very handy?"  Because, sometimes I need to know and don't want to use a calculator  -- would prefer a "quick reference". 

   Why waste your time converting? You're using a measuring device that is not compatible with your planer.  Simplify and get calipers that measure in fractions. (You will have to put your glasses on, the dial is pretty small.)

     "Am I missing some thing?"  Maybe it was just a beer to mellow you out, who knows.

   Have a Shiner Bock or two, and you mellow out!

   "How does that chart help you in fine woodworking?"  I don't do "fine woodworking yet" so I can't answer that.

    DUH! 

2. 
   Sphere | Jan 31, 2004 04:28am | #45

   I think she has you on IGNORE..shame ya went to all that work for nothing...

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

3. 
   forestgirl | Jan 31, 2004 06:02pm | #53

   What a great idea, Sphere.  Haven't used that button in a long time!  Happy weekend.  I'm goin' off to help the hubby scout elk-hunting prospects for the short little hunt he has coming up.forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

4. 
   Sphere | Jan 31, 2004 07:06pm | #59

   mmmmmm...ELK steaks..keep me in mind?

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

5. 
   forestgirl | Feb 01, 2004 03:32am | #60

   [Please pardon the mini-hijack here]  Bad news on the elk hunt.  This is a special hunt in a rather populated area, they're trying the keep the herd at a reasonable level.  They issued permits for a couple weeks here, a couple weeks there.  The last hunt, which was maybe 2 months ago evidently took way more animals than they were expecting, and took all the bulls but 2!  Nick has decided to turn his tags back in and try for a different hunt next year.  He just didn't feel comfortable -- the herd is really where it ought to be population-wise.  So, we're hoping they stay put (currently on a DO NOT HUNT farmer's property) until the hunt's over next weekend.

   We saw the herd -- about 40 animals, all big and in really good condition!forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

6. 
   Sphere | Feb 01, 2004 03:40am | #61

   all in all probably for the best..if it was meant to be ....and all that. I have only eaten elk once..and whooowhee..I loved it. But they are not too common in Kentucky.  We do have Beef-a-lo..huge monsters of a cow..oh yeah, the hijack..<G>...ok well, stay safe..Duane

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

7. 
   dirtstirrer | Jan 31, 2004 05:42am | #48

   Shish, getting ugly here, so I'll throw this out.  Anybody use a rule that reads inches as decimals?  I inadvertently bought one today.  Think I'll keep it though, kind of neat, and it's a Starrett. 

   I've got to disagree about fractions being easier then decimals.  I personally find it easier to split decimals then fractions.  Easier to visualize in my opinion.  I won't switch to metric without a fight, but, inches as decimals are what I use.  Right or wrong, it works.  Dial calipers are quick and precise, and are compatible with a planer, the router, the jointer, the handplanes, the tablesaw, the bandsaw, ect..  Measure the board, bet it dosen't always match the scale on the machine.  We all have different tecniques, and some will find that scale handy.  Course, I'm not a skilled trade worker, so what do I know?Steve

8. 
   Sphere | Jan 31, 2004 04:39pm | #51

   One trick (not really a "trick" per say) is when using my planer I can easily stick a mag. base dial indicter on a part that is close enough to attach to and have the dial read how much I crank up the bed. I have also made a bracket for my digital calipers that does the same thing...drop the extension to the bed , zero out the read out and plane away.

   I had to work in thoussandths and .01 MM's in guitar work, and our SCM wide belt had a built in DRO on the power table raiser.

   even when it is not absoluty critical to be that exact, it keeps me in practice...a .009 guitar string at proper tension is a REAL straight line..if the frets are off by .002 you hear it. And all strings are sold in dec. increments..putting a .014 string where ya need a .008..reeks havoc with both the guitar and the playability.

   Skilled trade children don't get it..

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

9. 
   dirtstirrer | Jan 31, 2004 06:53pm | #56

   Sphere,

   I like that, excellent idea.  A guy could prabably do something like that with a router table or shaper too.  Always thought that old Starrett Last Word should have a use in my shop.  BTW, always have admired the worksmanship in stringed instruments. 

   You know, whats wrong with precision?   Course, I'm not a skilled ect, ect, ect.Steve

10. 
    Sphere | Jan 31, 2004 07:05pm | #58

    Right on...the dial indicater was essential for the shaper cutter elevation..used it daily. Perfect practice makes perfect. Starret is the last word and the touch is right on...I can feel a .001 with my callused fingers..and finish coats that are measured with a wet film thickness gauge have to be right on for some applications..I'd wager skilled whatever does not know what it is.

    Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

11. 
    beck4000 | Jan 31, 2004 05:50pm | #52

    Am wondering why you wrote this!Thought we were supposed to just get along!What I wrote was just for people that never knew how to add and subtract like me!

    It was just a thought I had,sorry if this upset you,I AM SO SORRY!If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh

12. 
    forestgirl | Jan 31, 2004 06:07pm | #54

    Dear Jack,

    Fred and I are working on our relationship.  I appreciate your efforts, but really think we don't need your help at this point. 

    Sincerely,forestgirlforestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

3. 
   fredsmart48 | Jan 29, 2004 02:00pm | #36

   I've been wanting a chart like this for a long time!  I use digital calipers to measure wood and other items, and a decimal equivalent chart will be VERY handy.

    

   Why will it be very handy? 

   How does that chart help you in fine woodworking?  Am I missing some thing?

   Personly I never use any thing finer then the 1/16 scale for working wood. I have a few different lenths of steel rules that use a very fine lines.   

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 29, 2004 08:37pm | #41

   "Why will it be very handy?"  Because, sometimes I need to know and don't want to use a calculator -- would prefer a "quick reference".  For instance, if I'm planing some lumber down thin with very little room for error (for instance, as thin as possible but still leaving room for a clock or picture frame insert), I've measured the insert with the digital calipers, and aim for something close in fractional inches on the planer.  As I approach final thickness (or thinness in this case), I'm measuring the stock, converting to fractions and then sneaking up on the final dimension.  In this situation, 1/16th isn't precise enough.

   "How does that chart help you in fine woodworking?"  I don't do "fine woodworking yet" so I can't answer that.

   "Am I missing some thing?"  Yes, judging from your original post.  Maybe it was just a beer to mellow you out, who knows.

   I'm not saying there aren't a dozen other ways to do the same thing, or that it's necessary to go to 4 decimal places, or that some people simply can get by without.  I'm just saying that for me it's a handy approach, and there's no need to stomp on a guy for posting such a reference.forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

2. 
   CharlieP | Jan 31, 2004 06:09pm | #55

   "...I never use any thing finer then the 1/16 scale for working wood..."

   My mortise and tenon joints got a lot better when I started using my digital caliper measurements to 1/100 inch, and found I could use my table saw to reliably cut tenons closer than within 1/64 inch.   The wood may move that much by tomorrow, but both parts of the joint will be moving together.

   Incidentally I have had one of those apparently contriversial charts posted on the shop wall for a long time, and recently discovered that the back of the 6 inch steel ruler that I carry in my shop apron pocket has a similar chart.  Duh________________________Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 31, 2004 06:56pm | #57

   Hey Charlie! Just perused your site..nice stuff. Wish I could sell that inexpensivly..I hope to have my webpage up soon, just too much other stuff to get done. Keep up the good work. Duane

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

4. 
   GHR | Jan 28, 2004 03:06am | #11

   I don't know anyone who can work with wood to 3 decimals let lone 4.

   I am happy with 2 decimals myself.

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 28, 2004 04:12am | #14

   It is not always the wood that requires the accuracy of plus or minus .005  it often is our tools. The tolerances of thousandths is common for proper pilot holes for example. When setting up a jointer, limiting oneself to 2 decimal places is just that..limiting...    .75 and .759 can make a big difference in both performance of a given set up and the wear and tear on a machine.

   In no way am I critiqueing the methods you may currently be using, but working to achieve higher quality results often requires higher quality measuring devices and tolerances.

   Also the digital calipers are designed that they read so the fourth digit is always either a zero or a five..so that is the threshold of accuracy that we (those who use calipers on a regular basis) work towards.

   In my many positions over the years involved with patterns, jigs and templates..a tape measure was useless, a steel rule , very helpfull, a decent caliper, wether dial or digital indispensible. Now if you are making bird house's out of packing crates..(some folks do)  I can see the scoffing at accuracy..but here..it is called..FINE WOODWORKING

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

1. 
   GHR | Jan 28, 2004 06:31am | #16

   I used to be a tool maker and using manual machines we would hold +.00005. By those standards "fine woodworking" is junk.

   2 decimal places is +/-.01

   2 decimal places is a reasonable standard. It is closer than you can read a scale. It is closer than you can machine parallel edges. It is as close as you can fit joints. It is more than your wood will change size from humidity and stress relief during processing.

   Fine woodworking is akin to custom machine building where parts are individually fitted rather than made to size. For that 2 decimal places is more than adequate.

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 28, 2004 03:48pm | #21

   You must have worked for NASA...Millionths of an inch is as far as anything goes..or maybe NANO technology?

   As far as .01 +or-  hell, my FRAMING sq. has a hundreths scale on it..dividers easily can be set by that scale.

   I never mentioned measuring wood to 4 places, I refered to jigs, fixtures, templates and machines.

   To each his own, I suppose.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

2. 
   Elcoholic | Jan 28, 2004 04:15am | #15

   I don't think so George.  An eighth is .125.  Surely you work to within an 1/8", even carpenters work to an 1/8.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

5. 
   beck4000 | Jan 28, 2004 05:06pm | #26

   I use it all the time, easy to subtract like .500 - .125 = .375 I did it in school...I Find it easy to do...once you learn the rules!

   If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh

4. 
   JeffKurtz | Jan 28, 2004 01:21am | #8

   Thanks for the handy chart!

   Sorry about the nasty reply... some people.

5. 
   forestgirl | Jan 28, 2004 03:20am | #12

   Thanks for the chart!  I printed it out and it will have an honored place in my shop.  I don't do math in my head much any more!

   forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

1. 
   beck4000 | Jan 28, 2004 05:12pm | #28

   YW anytime.... Never knew I could cause serious chat with a Lousy Chart..see told ya I know nothing.. NOTHINGIf nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh

6. 
   robkelly1 | Jan 28, 2004 03:47am | #13

   Am I missing something? I've had a printed chart hanging on my shop wall for 50 years. The present one is free from the MSC catalog, is 18" x 24" unfolded, is in 4 colors, and has the decimal equivalent/size in inches and millimeters of all drill bits from 3/64" to 1.5" by 64ths, all drill bits A-Z and #1 thru #80, all tap sizes in English and Metric, and a raft of other stuff. Until today, I thought every toolroom/shop in the country had one.

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 28, 2004 08:27pm | #29

   I did a Google search awhile back trying to find one on the net, and didn't get results in the first 50, so I quit.  I haven't gotten the big MSC catalog yet, just a little one.  Anyway, a small chart like this one is handy to laminate and place in a drawer or hang off a cabinet.  No wall space in my place!forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

1. 
   Dan019 | Jan 28, 2004 10:59pm | #30

   I made and used this one for years. It's an Excel worksheet so you can manipulate it anyway you want; add color, change font size, ...

   Check along the bottom tabs and you'll find it is in 16ths, 32nd.s,

   & 64ths. After using it for a while you'll have the 16th decimal equivilents memorized. Where it really comes in handy is in a situation where (ex.) 13 1/8" / 6 = 2.1875 I don't need to memorize what .1875 is, all I do is go to my card and see where .1875 falls which is right below 3/16" (0.188) which I'll read as 2 and 3/16 short. This (32nd +/-) is about as low as my eyes will allow anyway w/o magnification.

   Works good, try it.

   Dan019

   
1. 
   PaulReuter | Jan 29, 2004 03:42am | #31

   It doesn't hurt to think of the possibilities of using more then one measuring system according to what kind of work you are doing.  I grew up in the states so am most familiar with the imperial system.  Of course, I had my introduction to decimals & metric in school.  Later, I had training in woodworking & in machine shop so I had to be able to work with either fractions or decimals.  Then, after I moved to Canada, (for work, not politics) I had to brush up on my metric.

   Now, I find that I switch fairly easily from on to the other, though when I'm working in metric,I get out my metric tape;  feet & inches require the imperial tape.  I never try to convert a job from one to the other, too easy to make a simple math error and the same goes for combination tapes.  I never use them.

   Although Canada is officially a metric country, a lot of work still gets done in imperial measure.  In wood I work with inches & fractions unless it's a metric plan.  I can look at a board leaning up against the wall accross the shop & tell if it's long enough for the 32" piece I need for a job.  If it's metric, I have to go over & measure it.  When I'm working up a jig that requires some pretty close fits, I like to work in metric because it's all whole numbers & a mm is pretty close to a 16thwhich is close enough for most woodwork.  And, if not, it's not toohard to extrappolateto a quarter of a mm.  For really fine work an RCH will get the job done. :-)Whichever system you use,  stick to fine woodworking.

   Paul

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Jan 29, 2004 06:26am | #34

   FG,

   Try a scientific calculator.  I use a TI-85 from my college calculus days.  Works great to convert any measure to any other.  Fractions to metric to Imperial, whatever.  Plus if boredom sets in, you can graph some functions, and make some neat "art".  Steve

7. 
   mudman | Jan 28, 2004 08:02am | #17

   The decimal system sucks. Ok, it sucks for carpintry and wood working. I always wondered how the Euro guys/gals do it. I mean I can figure half of 13 3/8" in my head. But, what is half of 13.37? I need a calculator for that.

   I am not saying any thing negative about the chart. I know that most of you are using calipers that read 100ths of an inch. I am lucky to have one that reads in 64ths.

     So seriously, I know that there are Euro-types on this forum. How do yall work in metric? With a calculator always in hand?

   Mike

1. 
   DustMaker | Jan 28, 2004 08:53am | #18

   Well, I am a US citizen but lets compare the two:

   computing half of  3 3/8"

   1: divide 13 by 2 = 6 1/2"2: multiply denominator or fraction by 2 = 3/16"3: convert fraction ofs tep 1 to same denominator as step 2 =  6 8/164: add steps 2 and 3 = 6 11/16

   Computing half of 13.371: Divide by 2 = 6.685Dave - Total Newby from Hiram GA

1. 
   dondownunder | Jan 28, 2004 09:39am | #19

   Metric is just downright simple, it's just like counting money. What more can I say.   

   Us 'Euro' types [read almost the rest of this planet except you guys :-)] don't need to divide 13 3/8" by two because it is close enough to 340mm, & half of that can be done in your head.  I work in metric every day & it really comes into its own in a production workshop where calculations need to be accurate & quick.

   Funnily enough screws are still sold here in imperial sizes, drill sets are readily available in either & we supposedly went metric 30 yrs ago. 

   Do yourselves a favour & change (is that the lynch mob I hear coming down the road?)

   Don

1. 
   VeniciaL | Jan 28, 2004 10:11am | #20

   Downunder,

   Trying to explain to someone who finds the metric system "more complicated" than imperial measurements is a lost cause. You're defeated before you begin.

   The Imperial system is truly maddening. Yes, in the U.S. we are forced to use this relic and despite the fact that it is possible to learn to think in fractions, it is a huge contributing factor to mistakes.

   I once thought I could survive by staying metric here. No chance. But I have refused to give up entirely. While I can't hope to get things sized in meters and millimeters, I refuse to use fractions and measure exclusively in decimal inches. Not a bad compromise.

   Of course, then there are gallons, quarts, pints, cups and ounces. Gah!

   VL

2. 
   Sphere | Jan 28, 2004 03:55pm | #22

   I wish architects would switch when plotting door sizes..I once had a carpenter who framed all 3'0'' doors for 30''..6 inch boo-boos everywhere..metric would avoid all of that.

   All the blueprints from Ibanez that I worked from were in metric, I love it..convert to dec.? hit the button on the calipers..poof. That And I memorized the most common used numbers.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

1. 
   jjf | Jan 28, 2004 04:41pm | #23

   Give it up folks.  The superior system is doomed to the inferior system.

   If metric is so easy and logical then where did the 32 mm cabinet system come from?  They could not put the spindles closer than that distance without the machine failing.

   Acceleration due to gravity (9.8m/sec2) is such a nice round easy number.  So is avogadros number 6.02 X1032.  The speed of ligh in metric is reeeeeal nice, what was it again?  The meter came from the diameter of the earth divided by some arbitary number and it turns out that there are errors in that.  What can you expect, it came from Nepoleon regiem.

2. 
   Sphere | Jan 28, 2004 05:10pm | #27

   um..That's 10 to the 23rd power btw...not 32nd

   and I suppose that longitude and latitude are use less as well..based on some "Napoleonic" peoples ideas?

   modern multi spindle line borers are capable of holes overlapping, CNC, even greater accuracy..ever program a fraction in a CNC?  Didn't think so.

   I have never had a need to convert the speed of light to Kilometres per hour..but if needed yes I can do it in my head...as well as kilograms to pounds..2.2 is not too hard to remember..

   Most medical proceedures are defined in metric as well as meds.

   ya think there might be a reason?

   c'mon, you want to stir the stink.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

3. 
   ian | Jan 29, 2004 02:53pm | #37

   I suppose that longitude and latitude are use less as well..based on some "Napoleonic" peoples ideas

   well not really, they're both based on minutes and seconds.  The reason a nautical mile is 15% longer than a standard mile is that one minute of arc at the earth's surface equals 1 nautical mile.  As your distance measuring precision increases you make allowances for the earth not being perfectly spherical

   but don't get me started.  So far in my working life I've needed to measure distances in miles, furlongs, chains, yards, links, decimal feet, feet and inches, decimal and fractional inches, kilometres, metres, decimetres, centimetres, millimetres  and I haven't even started on the area measures.  I've still got some way out scale rules that allow you to directly measure distances when the scale is 1/2 in to the foot or to measure a distance in metres on a drawing done in imperial measures. 

4. 
   Sphere | Jan 29, 2004 04:39pm | #38

   way out measurements..ok I was refering to the innane comment made about metric and Napoleanic concepts..not distputing the long./ lat. system..latitude was easy with a sextant..long. took a bit longer, till clocks were "dialed in" as GMT was the basis.

   My 'bird' in the Naval Air Command..measured fuel in pounds per hour..try to figgure what ya need to save in a jettison so ya can land on the flat top..barring a wait in que landing order. When flying it's all uphill..<G> cuz the Earth is spherical enough.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

3. 
   DavidP | Jan 29, 2004 06:19am | #33

   I dont know, I recall trying to fit dowells in Albury/ Wodonga 13 years ago. The Dowell suppliers had just converted to metric and we were faced with the problem that 1/2'' might be 12mm, 12.7mm, 13mm or 1/2''. All depended on where that batch of stock had come from.

   Guess what - I own 4 bits that are a nominal 1/2 ''

   PS. It was just as bad when I did leather stuff as a kid and is the price you have to pay to keep enthusiastic americans propping up the hand tool industry.

   David (downunder)

4. 
   Manchild | Jan 29, 2004 05:54pm | #39

   I agree and I grew up in the U.S.. I don't know if stupidity, stuborness, or nationalism, but the U.S. has some problems with the way we fit into the rest of the world. The metric system is a good example.

1. 
   EUGENE978 | Jan 29, 2004 06:14pm | #40

   Correct me if I am wrong.  I thought most or all car manufactures in the US converted to metric. 

   Growing up using both systems, I prefer metric.  Simple, accurate and foolproof.

   YMMV,

   Eug

5. 
   Dave10 | Jan 31, 2004 05:48am | #49

   I agree, nothing simpler than metric. Totally decimal -no

   fractions.

1. 
   SCFrankland | Jan 31, 2004 06:16am | #50

   I have lived my whole adult life using the metric system and it is simple, easy to use and is a pin in the a$$ when it comes to woodworking.Scott C. Frankland

   Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."

2. 
   joinerswork | Jan 28, 2004 04:41pm | #24

   Dave,

   Let's compare apples and apples here. 

   Step one: Half of 13 is 6 1/2

   Step two: Half of 3/8 is 3/16

   Step three: On your rule, read 6 1/2; add to that 3/16=6 11/16

   Working in my head decimally-(what we called "long division" back in the day)

   13 divided by two is 6, 12 from 13 is one, bring down the 3; 13 divided by 2 is 6, 12 from 13 is one, bring down the 7; 17 divided by two is 8, 16 from 17 is one, bring down a 0; 10 divided by two is5, add together the results of the separate calculations, wait I don't remember them all, where's a piece of paper and a pencil?

   I guess it's really about one's own comfort level with one's measuring system.  I find it reassuring to think that the typical 18th cent woodworker made do with a rule divided into 1/8ths--looking at the best workmanship of that period, it's obvious that  they were working to closer tolerances than +-1/8"  In my furniture building experience, it's more important that things that need to be accurately cut, be the same size as some other component, than that they end up being some arbitrary dimension to three decimal places (or to 1/128).  For instance, to join two boards for gluing, I want the two surfaces to match one another, I'm not going to try how big a feeler guage I can insert between them, If they don't match I take off one or the other til they do.  For a proper fit of a stack of drawers (and squareness of the case), it's more important that all the rails in the case be the same length than that they all be exactly 30.000" long--my clients don't use calipers either.

   Sure, there are cases where accuracy is critical; the fit of a tenon in its mortise for example, but my mortise bit determines that dimension, and I cut the tenons to fit the mortise, not a caliper set to that dimension.  Turning tenons on the lathe, same thing, I set calipers to the drill bit, and turn to the degree of tightness I want, not knowing how many thou under that is, (it'll be different tomorrow anyway)

   Not intending this to be an attack on anyone's method of work or measurement, just to point out that whether you're into fractional or decimal, it's important to keep in mind the end result, and work to the level of accuracy approprate for that end.

   IMHO,

   Ray

1. 
   mudman | Jan 31, 2004 04:58am | #47

   Ray,

      I agree completely, I try to avoid measuring as much as posible. The corect length is when there is no gap, So I transfer to length not the measurement.

   Mike

3. 
   mudman | Jan 31, 2004 04:50am | #46

   Dave,

      You are right, when you write the process out on paper it looks more difficult, However, I can figure half of 3 3/8 in my head. It literally took me 10 seconds to complete the process you wrote. In fact I probably thought the answer faster than you typed the sentence. OK, maybe you type faster than me.

      I can't figure the decimal equivelant in my head. BTW, I have taken Calc, and two statistics classes. If you keep a calculator in your hand the whole time Decimals are fine. But as a carpinter I already have too many tools on me. If I need to center a door opening in a wall that is or center a plumbing roughout that needs to be within an 1/8th I can do it instantly. The same applies when I build inset cabinet doors with four panels. Although I usually do use a calculator for that.

      I am not a metric basher. It works great for NASA and Honda and most every other real world situation. I am just curious how the Europeans do it. I don't know, maybe they do it in their head too.

   Mike

8. 
   George3 | Jan 29, 2004 09:41pm | #42

   Here's a chart I use a lot.     It gives the largest fraction for all 1/64ths, is big enough to see across my tiny shop and sized to hang on my vertical dust collection pipe.   I made this so I wouldn't have to keep figuring out things like "what's 29/64th  or    47/64th".

   
1. 
   beck4000 | Jan 30, 2004 05:10pm | #43

   Ty will save this..If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh