Replies

1. 
   mapleman | Jun 12, 2005 08:13am | #1

   Jell,

   Funny you ask that, I just completed 2 tables in cherry for a friend and decided to spray gloss lacquer on them. I bought Mc Fadden's lacquer from Grizzly because it's supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, I didn't buy anywhere near enough of it and had to look for a local solution to my lack of lacquer.(Pardon the pun). I went to HD and grabbed a quart of Deft gloss. Plain as day on the back of the can it says: "Not to be thinned or sprayed". Well, that's a double dog dare in my book so I bought 2 quarts. Couldn't be happier. Laid down like a dream. Sprayed it right out of the can with no thinner or retarder, 45 -50 psi and a conventional (not hvlp) devilbiss gun. I am planning to let it cure for a week or two and then buff out the tops with some new surbuf pads I bought. I would definitely recommend trying it out first, though. You don't want to ruin a good piece of furniture if it doesn't act right for you.

   Good luck,

   Birdy

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/12/2005 1:14 am ET by BIRDSEYEMAN

1. 
   BArnold | Jun 12, 2005 03:53pm | #3

   "... Plain as day on the back of the can it says: "Not to be thinned or sprayed". ..."

   Manufacturers put notes such as that on containers of finish to protect themselves.  In order to comply with VOC regulations, product is recommended for use directly from the can.  What we do with the finish to achieve the desired result is our business.  By the time I take some polyurethane and mix it with naphtha and BLO, I'm sure it would fail EPA regulations, but it makes a great homebrew 'Danish Oil'!

   Regards,

   Bill Arnold - Custom WoodcraftingMensa Member Click Here if you're interested in a good, inexpensive website host.

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

1. 
   Jellyrug | Jun 12, 2005 05:33pm | #4

   Thanks everyone.

   All the spray lacquers nowadays are low VOC and they work OK but not as easy as in the old days. I once did a very small job with Deft satin lacquer out of an aerosol can and have never been able to match that satin look with any of the other brands, I have tried in my HVLP conversion gun.

   I suspect Bill Arnold is correct, perhaps this is Deft's way of making the good old stuff available to us, without any VOC liability.

   I spray in my garage, with both roller shutter doors cracked open about 24" and a big fan in a side door sucking the air out. Also use a good mask with an organics vapor filter and never had a problem. Obviously this is not production and kind of once in a while.

   It's gonna be 92F here in Central CA today, not a cloud in sight, so I suspect that retarder in Deft is just what I need.

   Edited 6/12/2005 10:40 am ET by Jellyrug

1. 
   Handrubbed | Jun 13, 2005 02:57am | #5

   Hate to bring a negative into the discussion, but for balance you may want to read what follows.

   I have always used spray lacquer as my topcoat.  In my earlier days I used Mohawk (Behlen) aerosol cans because they make three different sheens, and I had no spray rig.  The only problem is the minimum order is $85.00 and you have to go through the internet to find it.  You may have noticed that hardly any catalogs are carrying aerosol finishes now...only wipe-ons.

   Well, one time I was low on the Mohawk lacquer, which by this time I bought by the gallons for my new spray gun, so I decided to try good old Deft, which can be bought at any Ace hardware.  It went on just fine and dried to a nice satin finish.  I was finishing a desk and thus was spraying many subassemblies.  I noticed as I was puting the hardware on the drawers and assembling the top, etc., that a lot of white scuffs were showing up from handling the finished pieces.  I tested a drawer front with my fingernail, and son-of-a ------, the finish was easily scratched.  And it was a white scratch to boot!

   I'm used to lacquers being bullet proof.  This Deft wasn't going to cut it for use on a desk.

   I sanded it all down; ordered my regular pre-cat lacquer; and learned another valuable lesson in fine woodworking.  I would recommend you save the Deft spray cans for low-use projects such as picture frames and such.

    

    

    

1. 
   tms | Jun 13, 2005 06:05am | #6

   Hey Quartersawn,That's unfortunate that you had problems with the Deft spray can. Did you have anything under the Deft that might have caused the problem? I've used Deft spray lacquer for my longbows and it holds up very well. It does take about a week to get to full hardness though.Tom

2. 
   Handrubbed | Jun 13, 2005 04:58pm | #7

   Thanks for those insights.  I generally use a stearated sanding sealer under the topcoat.  In this particular case I had used a gel stain over the sealer as a glaze to highlight crevises.  Neither of these should cause compatibility problems.  By the way, the deft I used was liquid from a can, not an aerosol.  It does say that it is a brushing lacquer, but several forum members said they have sprayed it without problems.

   As far as the curing goes, the finish continued to mark easily for months until I bit the bullet and sanded it off. 

   I am contunuing to use my reular lacquer and have tried a water base lacquer from Target finishes that is not bad.

3. 
   Jellyrug | Jun 13, 2005 06:04pm | #8

   Quatersawn,

   Thanks for getting my guard up. I've always had good luck with lacquer in my HVLP conversion gun and never been particular about which brand I use. Sherwan Williams, Dunn & Edwards, Maclack, etc.

   Only tried Deft out of an aerosol can, when I sprayed a vase and it came out real nice, no problems, it's much the same in durability as the others.

   I'll do a test piece and see, perhaps you had a bad batch?

4. 
   Handrubbed | Jun 13, 2005 08:21pm | #9

   That could be, or operator error.  Deft is a big company and not likely to make a really bad product.  Spray cans are so handy for small projects,  I use an air brush if I'm doing small pieces like candle holders, etc.  A #3 nozzle is about right for lacquer right out of the can.  Anyone have a preference for lacquer brands?  No five gallon minimums please.  Behlens and Mohawk (the same product, I have learned) are out there on the net.  My most recent order of Behlens came in a 1 gallon plastic jug, which is nice for handling and cleanup.  The gal cans of lacquer get pretty gummed up around the lid between uses.

5. 
   Jellyrug | Jun 13, 2005 09:13pm | #10

   Just phoned Deft:

   Quotes:

   Me: "Can I spray your lacquer, why does it say brush only?"

   Deft:  "Where are you located sir?"

   Me: "California"

   Deft: "No, you may not spray it, as we do not meet the VOC regulations"

   Me: "Is this the only reason"

   Deft: "Yes, this is the only reason, because of VOC requirements we have to put "Brushing" on the can."

6. 
   mapleman | Jun 14, 2005 04:18am | #11

   Jell,

   Never in a million years would I have thought you would have actually gotten a real live person when calling a large company like Deft. I thought of emailing them, now I won't have to. Thanks,

   Birdy

7. 
   migraine | Jun 14, 2005 07:38pm | #13

   Just to change the subject, where are you located in Central Ca?

8. 
   Jellyrug | Jun 14, 2005 11:20pm | #15

   I'm not in Santa Maria, where Michael Jackson has just been acquitted of all charges, but do hear that Saddam Hussain has requested his trial to be moved to Santa Maria as well.....

   I'm in Clovis, next to Fresno. Between Bakersfield and Sacramento.

9. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 15, 2005 05:43pm | #16

   Saddam Hussain has requested his trial to be moved to Santa Maria ..

   LOL..  THAT one just made my day... Good one!  LOL....

10. 
    forestgirl | Jun 17, 2005 08:46pm | #17

    "Between Bakersfield and Sacramento."  Read:  HOT! 

    Sign me an ol' Davisiteforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

11. 
    migraine | Jun 14, 2005 07:37pm | #12

    Just to give you some "new info" or it seems that way fro me, is that Mohawk is starting to set up some distribution stores that will sell with no minimum.  One store is in Orange, Calif.  and their is another company called Richeliu(spelling?) out of various providences in Canada and they now have a place in Portland and Auburn Wash.

    Try going to Mohawks website and see if you can find one near you.

2. 
   DougF | Jun 12, 2005 03:34pm | #2

   Jellyrug,

   I've sprayed Deft using HVLP's for years; thinned and straight out of the can.  Thinning will absolutely not affect the lacquer in any way except that each coat is thinner once the solvents flash off.  You just apply an additional coat if needed.  Since it is made for brushing,Deft contains slower thinners and a retarder which can also be a problem with vertical surfaces since it doesn't set quite as fast and you risk sags and runs if you hit it with too heavy a coat.

   Doug

3. 
   jackhall | Jun 14, 2005 07:58pm | #14

   I have used brush on Deft lacquer for years.  When I got to a project involving very small parts (dominos) I resorted to the spray version.  I have had very good results with the spray on lacquer although it takes me 7-9 coats to get a sufficient amount to allow final 600 grit sanding and buffing.

4. 
   forestgirl | Jun 17, 2005 11:59pm | #18

   No,no,no.  Hot refers to the weather (really, it does!).  Davis is a town near Sacramento, built around University of California campus from which I gra'giated.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   PlaneWood | Jun 18, 2005 08:14pm | #19

   Ah, I don't recall ever brushing it on.  I go through about a gallon every 2 months.  Small finish gun, vacuum fed, running off a compressor.  Haven't cleaned out the gun in 2 years.  At $29 bucks I'll just buy another if it ever clogs. 

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood

1. 
   Jellyrug | Jun 19, 2005 09:12am | #20

   I sprayed it for the first time this week-end.

   First straight out of the can and then thinned about 10%. Could be the retarders, but it's the first time I got my HVLP conversion gun to work absolutely perfect. Almost no overspray. What a pleasure, thanks for all the advice on the forum, I will use Deft from now onwards, best I have tried so far.

1. 
   PlaneWood | Jun 19, 2005 09:46pm | #21

   FYI - Deft Lacquer has mineral soaps added to give it that 'warm' feel.

   I use dewaxed shellac (Zinsser Bulls Eye Clear Coat) underneath the Deft as a sealer.  That is a must when finishing the exotic waxy woods.

   I sometimes use a little thinner.  All depends on the temp and the humidity.  I have only rarely had humidity cause the surface to turn milky colored when using deft.  When that happens, I lightly spray the surface with straight retarder.   I then add a little thinner and a little retarder for the next coat.  Also, I've had better luck spraying it on pretty thick.  An eldery furniture refinisher that worked for Ethan Allen once told me to always have air moving over the piece when spraying lacquer.  It was very good advice. 

   ps - the milky color is caused by water vapor being trapped below the surface.  The lacquer dries so fast that the moisture does not escape.  The retarder softens the surface and lets it escape.  If you see the milky color happening, add retarder.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood