Replies

1. 
   Rich14 | Jan 20, 2007 10:11pm | #1

   Keef, "Can I spray lacquer (Deft- clear aerosol can) over shellac? Over Tung oil? Over Tung/ Trp/ Varnish ?" Yes, yes and yes. However, for the project you describe, if you are using shellac, as a sealing coat, why not use it as the complete finish? It will serve your project very well. Before applying lacquer over the shellac, level the shellac from any raised grain, nibs, ets. I assume you're going to use shellac over tung oil as a sealer coat. Lacquer over oil/varnish? Again, the question, why? this can be your complete finish - let the varnish cure for at least a week, maybe 2. Scuff sand gently but completely before starting the lacquer phase. Rich

   
   

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   Edited 1/20/2007 2:12 pm ET by Rich14

1. 
   Keef | Jan 21, 2007 01:50am | #2

   Rich,

   Thank you for the advice.  I haven’t mastered shellac top coat.  I’ve yet to get a finish I admire using shellac (my bad) and this is going to be a gift.

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   If I can use shellac as a sealer over tung oil, as you said, I will do that.  I understand that shellac seals in odor.  I’m very concerned about the bottom of the lid tainting the contents with odor.

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   I choose lacquer because of the long lingering smell of  TO. Since the box will hold tea bags (likely 40 – 50),  I can’t risk the odor factor.  I can get a better finish spraying the lacquer than polishing with shellac, judging from history.  I’m still pretty new to this.  It sounds as if lacquer can be used over most everything?

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   KB

   Edited 1/20/2007 5:51 pm ET by Keef

1. 
   frenchy | Jan 21, 2007 02:49am | #3

   Keef,

    can I help you with shellac?

       Actaully it's an incredibly simple finish to work with.. there are a couple of tricks to it but they are extremely simple so don't be afraid..

     First over thin your shellac..  Use denatured alcohol!

    

     I repeat use denatured alcohol!

     Home Depot sells it. hardware stores and most paint stores..

     Don't use thinner or anything else!

     Denatured alcohol!

      over thin it!

    If you buy premixed shellac (which is extremely cheap and easy to use!)  add three parts of denatured alcohol to one part of premixed stuff.  If you are ginding and mixing your own flakes you'll want no more than one pound of flakes per gallon of denatured alcohol.. or one quart of alcohol to 1/4 pound of flakes..

         I buy premixed stuff and save $40 to $50 a gallon! Zinzzler is the most common brand.. to that mix add three parts of denartured alcohol..

          OK you now have a watery mess that will run like crazy,

     Here's the second trick!

        let it!

     yep! slop it on!  do it like you are running for your life!

    slop away!

     use a clean ol' house panting brush 'cause it holds a lot of shellac and slop away!

    Fast is good!    Carefull is aways a mistake!

    Sounds wacky doesn't it? 

    I'm not kidding or putting you on.. Please paint as fast as you can and don't worry about runs, drips, or even skipped places! Don't worry about overlapping or being careful.. Don't ever go back over anything!

       Here's why. the next coat will melt the first coat and make everything perfect..

   But wait!

         all of say 15 minutes.. Then go ahead and touch the shellac.. It's dry! so now you get to sand between coats..

       I use a 3M sanding sponge,   the yellow 220 grit one.. but you can use whatever you want..Some sand with 320 that's fine too. 

    but don't use your fingers!

    Put it on a sanding block  or pad,  your fingers leave grooves and won't let you get the deep finish you'd like. Careful about sanding thru the edges..

     IT should take you less than a minute per sq.ft.

    I real lick and a promise sanding..  

    All you are sanding is the little fuzz and stuff that are raised with the finish coat..

    Now slop another coat of that same thin mixture.. cover everything quickly and never go back over anything!

     Wait about a half an hour or so  and resand, the same lick and promise sanding you did at first.

    Finally  give it the third and final coat

     Now comes judgement time

      Are you happy with the finish as it is or would you like to do some more work to improve it?

     If so start with say 320 paper, and sand untill you have a satin  finish covering everything..  don't overthink this or over work it,  it shouldn't take long and shouldn't leave shiney spots

     Now sand with 400 grit papeer. all you are doing is making smaller scratches so again it won't take long, keep using finer and finer sand paper I usually stop at 4000 grit

     Then polish and stand back and admire your work!

      You see this way people like me who are the worlds worst painter a real master slob who gets more paint on me than I do on the work wind up with a beautiful finish..

    A couple of points..

     mistakes happen.. with shellac they are incredibly easy to fix..

     Your cat sharpened its clws on your new box? you don't have to bury him in it!

     all you do is take a rag and soak it in denatured alcohol and scratch-be-gone! simply rub the rag back and forth a little and scratch be gone!

      Your stupid brother-in-lw spilt some of your good single malt scotch on it and didn't tell you? get out the denatured alcohol rag again and rub away the problem.

     your wife wanted to see if it floated in the bath tub and it turns all white?   Take out the denatured alcohol rag wipe off the old finish and apply a new one..  No stripping, no sanding, no muss no fuss..

    

    

    

     

     

        

    

      

    

        

1. 
   Keef | Jan 21, 2007 03:33am | #5

   Thanks Frenchy!  I am currently on post # 107 of 126 in the " I hate finishing" thread where I have read your posts.  I owe you a beer for having to post the shellac deal twice! 

   You hit my nail on the head- I tend to over think- over work- over analize and over brush everything having to do with wood (I dont think I have over sanded much)!  That has been the problem in the past with shellac. 

   I will do the deal and test it on my project sample board- its very thick and I just plane it off and start again to test finishes.  I've spent weeks and weeks on this project which was intended for Christmas.  I have measured twice and thrice and still cut the miter the wrong direction!  I don't want the finishing to be the same way, so I tend to over analize.

   Off to the test board,

   KB

    

2. 
   ptu | Jan 21, 2007 03:52am | #7

   Great post, frenchy

2. 
   Rich14 | Jan 21, 2007 03:28am | #4

   Keef, Better use shellac or Frenchy ain't never gonna leave ya alone! Yeah, I think you should use shellac, too. You can use linseed or tung oil under it if you want for color development, or not. When you're finished, you'll have a non-toxic finish that you won't have to worry about contacting anything. I would use lacquer, because I've used it a lot and I'm comfortable with it. It would give alcohol resistance and better water resistance than shellac, but I don't think that's something you need to be concerned with. Besides, shellac will be beautiful and is really a fool-proof finish, especially as Frenchy describes it. I would describe a more involved leveling with the sanding between coats, a few more coats and more involved rubbing out. But follow his instructions. Rich

1. 
   Keef | Jan 21, 2007 03:43am | #6

   Rich,

   Thanks for taking the time to help me. I do like the way the 30/30/30 mix works up the color and grain.  I have used a secret series of water based dye applications on the sample boards (and on the inside which is already finished) and it it absolutly stunning.  The oil deepens the grain.

   If i use the 33/33/33* as the base coat,  would 24-36 hours dry time be enough before the shellac?

   KB

   * 1/3 Tung oil, 1/3 Turpentine, 1/3 Man O' War Spar Varnish

1. 
   Rich14 | Jan 21, 2007 06:14pm | #9

   Don't use spar varnish. Spar varnish is designed to never really harden. It is meant for outdoor, specifically marine environments, where movement of wood is inevitable and the finish must remain soft and actually flex and give to avoid breaking apart. Less than 48-72 hours is too little time to allow varnish to harden. A week is much better. Oil-varnish finishes are very easy to apply, but there is no way to shorten the total time they need to really harden.

2. 
   Pondfish | Jan 21, 2007 04:32pm | #8

   I've done oil then shellac then lacquer; it works fine.

   But nitrocellulose lacquer (the stuff in you r can o'Deft) will yellow over time.  I agree with other posters and suggest you just use shellac for the finish.  Get a good brush and brush it on carefully and you won't have to spend much time sanding it smooth.

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005