Hey All-
I am stepping up from my Craftsman Contractor Saw and am interested in a Hybrid due to gagarge space issues. I was intretsred in the Delta Hybrid w/Biesmeyer, but can’t find solid tool reviews on this saw. I did see some customer reviews that were mixed. Can anyone help? Would love any info on the Delta Hybrid and recommendations for an hybrid saws that are good.
Thanks!!
Replies
Believe it or not, the Craftsman hybrid has gotten some great owner-reviews in the last year or so. The saw is made by Orion, which is related to Steel City, which was founded by ex-patriots from Delta and WMH (Jet/Powermatic). I don't remember if the Craftsman comes with a Bies fence or a clone, but take a look at it on the Sears site, compare the specs with the Delta, see what you think. (This post written by a died-in-the-wool Craftsman power tool ha...errrr....doubter).
"Ex-patriat".... for what it's worth....
FG is right, the private label division of Steel City makes a lot of the Craftsman stuff now.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 5/26/2007 7:42 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
A cabinet saw won't take appreciably more room than a hybrid, and less than most contractor saws. Contractor saws generally are easier to keep aligned and maintain alignment when beveling.
"Contractor saws generally are easier to keep aligned and maintain alignment when beveling"Did you say "contractor"? Is that right?
I said it, but is was WRONG. I must have been suffering from caffeine deficiencyh. It is the cabinet saws that are easier to keep aligned. Contractor saws are very difficult to have aligned right when the blade is tilted.
When my budget allows I am moving up from my jet contractor saw (which has served me well) to the Grizzly 1023 cabinet saw. Basically same footprint as a hybrid, not much more money, more features, and 3 or 5 horsepower. I believe most hybrids are 2 hp. PMM
I've been a little baffled by the field reports on the Delta hybrids. The Amazon reviews are mixed, but nearly every post I read from an actual owner or user is positive. Conflicting reviews seem more common on Amazon than other sources, so I often question their validity...it's very easier to sign up and write a review there....very few requirements, and many of the reviews are actually beefs with Amazon that have nothing to do with the product.
That said, assuming all works as planned on the Delta hybrids, I'm sure they'd do a very respectable job of cutting tasks, the DC should be good, stability good, and the fence choices are excellent, but I'm not seeing any design advantages over some of the other better designs. The Delta's share the same motor and drive system as the Orion made saws, but the Craftsman and Steel City hybrids offer cabinet mounted trunnions vs the table mounted trunnions of the Delta...much easier to align and much heavier...an advantage IMO.
The Grizzly, DW, GI, Shop Fox, as well as some of the Jet hybrids, offer a cast iron single piece blade shroud that connects the front and rear trunnions vs Delta's beefed up connecting rods. The leverage and weight distribution is different, and the rods are bigger on the hybrids...I've yet to read of a heeling issue with this type of design on the better hybrids but the design of the GI, Griz, Jet and DW is still a more elegant solution IMO. What I'd love to see is a combination of the cast blade shroud and cabinet mounted trunnions.
An attractive price would encourage me to look at the Deltas, but I think the major design advantages lean toward several others.
http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268
Edited 5/26/2007 8:00 am ET by Knotscott
Amazon reviews can really be a joke, eh? Especially the "ratings" -- one item I looked at had 3 reviews, totally identical and negative of course, from the same person. That'll skew things, for sure. And I've seen people rip the product because of shipping problems. Oh well.
Your's is the first post I've seen involving the Grizzly hybrid. Is the design a solid one? The mere mention of "connecting rods" (Delta) gives me shivers, because of the problems I had with said part in my old Jet contractor saw. Those things get tweaked out of alignment, they're a royal pain in the petukas to fix. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Also, doesn't Steel City offer hybrids? The first 5 models on this page look like hybrids to me. They have cabinet-mounted trunions, a plus in my book. Claim to have a quick-release blade guard, have to check that out. From what you know of the other brands, is the SC very much like one or another?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi FG...Steel City does offer hybrids as well as traditional industrial style cabinet saws more similar to the Griz 1023 and Unisaw design. The basic trunnion format of their hybrids is very similar (looks identical to me but "similar" works too...) to the Craftsmans. They offer a Biese clone fence and a deluxe version of a Biese clone, and one of their hybrids actually features a 3hp motor on the same trunnion format as the others. I think they offer standard and long rail options too. SC claims that the trunnions are beefed up to support the additional forces. These do have connecting rods, but they are beefier than those on a contractor saw, and I've even heard that they're indexed to prevent twisting...perhaps that's why I haven't read of any owners having that alignment issue yet.Not sure how good the Griz design is, but it "appears" to be fine....although the table mounted trunnions look much harder to get at than the cab mounted ones. Their website shows a good pic of the table upside down with the trunnions and motor mounted. The trunnion portion looks similar to the GI design, but the GI and Sunhill design uses a dual drive stage that I don't believe the Griz uses. The Griz rated well in one review, but it was a fairly obscure publication that emphasized speed of ripping as a fairly important criteria.
Edited 5/26/2007 3:53 pm ET by Knotscott
"These do have connecting rods, but they are beefier than those on a contractor saw, and I've even heard that they're indexed to prevent twisting..." Ah! That would be highly desireable. Though I suspect that the most common cause of the connecting rods twisting is cranking the blade over to 45° and having the motor (contractor, hanging out the back) jamming into an immovable object such as an outfeed table. Still, a design feature that heads that possibility off? -- very cool.
What kind of stupid thing would we have to do to twist the connecting rods on a hybrid (non-indexed)??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"What kind of stupid thing would we have to do to twist the connecting rods on a hybrid (non-indexed)??"God knows I hope this takes along time, but I'll let you if I discover how!
I am a little late to add to the topic, but hopefully this may be useful to you, I had the Delta 36-717 (Beis fence) for about a year and just sold it a few days ago. I was extremely happy with the saw given the limitations of any of the under 2 HP hybrid saws. It was easy to setup, although I did buy the PALS system to assist in adjusting the trunions. The hybrids with cabinet mounted trunions (Sears, Steel City, etc.) do have an advantage over the Delta hybrid in this respect. I did like the local service and support available with the Delta from my dealer and the Delta Service Center. Also, the Delta takes many of the Unisaw accessories like throat inserts which are available anywhere.
One thing that I would have done differently if buying it again today would be to go with the Unifence. I had no experience with the Unifence prior to buying the Delta, but I have had the opportunity to use one in the past year and I like its additional flexibility out of the box. The Unifence is perhaps a bit less forgiving of rough treatment, but for a hobbyist like myself I did not see that as an issue.
The Steel City was not available when I was shopping for a saw, but I have followed the reviews and comments on all the hybrids since then and I don't believe there is an inherently bad hybrid out there. All seem to have small features and shortcomings compared to the competition, but they all appear to have more in common than not. I sold mine because I am moving to a new shop where I will have 230v service available plus I just got a killer deal on a 3 HP Jet with 50" fence. If not for this, I would still be happy with the Delta. Good luck with your decision.
Many Thanks Greg! I did in fact buy the Delta(at a great price locally) but have yet to set it up. If I may ask, did you have a mobile base for yours? I did buy the base designed to fit this saw(model 50-278) but was curious if you had the same base and how it worked out for you.
Thanks again!
I guess this is a little late, but if you have not yet put your fence together, and if space is a major consideration for you, you might consider swapping the Biesemeier for Delta's T2 and get $100 back. The width of the T2 front rail is 4" less, but still gives you 31" rip. It is about 4" less deep than the Biesemeier, so you can store the saw closer to the wall. Movement is glassy smooth and it clamps tightly. The only downside I see is that T2 is slightly easier to deflect at the back and there's less support for stock beyond the blade. Oh, and make sure they give you the T2 package for 36-715. Mine came with instructions and bolts for a 729 saw that had tapped mounting holes on the back of the table.I got a nice mobile base kit from Woodcraft ($60) that you supply a piece of 3/4" plywood and mount the corners to it. Advantage over the Delta base is that you can roll the saw straight in or out from the wall and when you release the front casters it sits down on two easily adjustable feet for stability and resistance to moving. Delta rolls 90 degrees to the blade direction, so you couldn't roll it up against the wall if there are obstructions on either side.
I bought the same Woodcraft base that brucet99 mentions above, although I mounted it with the lift casters to the right side, under the motor cover, so that it rolls the same way as the Delta base. I like the Delta bases I have for my bandsaw and jointer as they are very solid, roll nicely, and lift the tool up fairly high so the feet don't drag on an uneven floor. I'm considering ordering the Delta base made for the Unisaw to put under my Jet saw, even though the Jet comes with a base-the Delta bases are that good. Good luck with your new saw and let me know if there are any questions I can help you with.
Greg
I have the delta hybrid with a besi fence and it works great for everythign i am doing. As far as the mobil base i jsut made my own out of some ply wood and a few casters, cost about 15 bucks and works just like the one delta sells.
Over all good saw but crappy delta blade.
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