hi,
i’m deciding on which model to buy. So far I’ve looked at the Delta and King Industrial 6″ planers. The Delta professional 6″ planer comes with levers the King Industrial with front mounted handwheels. I’ve heard some people say handwheels are better than levers. they both come with a 3 knife cutterhead. The Delta is 1HP (120/240v)the King Industrial 1 1/2 HP with Cast iron tables.
They are about the same price. $650 Canadian.
The Delta comes with a promotional deal. Which I dont’ really care for. That’s probably why it sells better than the King Industrial.
Is the Delta 6″ professional planer a good buy. Is it enough HP for the average home shop? or should I buy the next model up approx. ($1200 plus taxes) I don’t want to skimp nor do I want to pay for what I don’t need.
anybody here have any experience with either machine?????
Wendy
Replies
I don't know many people with King equipment. I don't think it's available in the US. I would suggest trying over at the http://www.canadianwoodworking.com forum.
I have the 1HP 6" General International jointer with hand wheels. Plenty of power, I've run cherry, maple, and walnut over it no problem. As for the hand wheels... I rarely every change the tables, so it wasn't a deal breaker for me. It's running $689 now. (Not that you were asking). So it's all in the right price range.
I don't think I would upgrade to the next level at $1200 unless it is an 8". Remember if you don't already have it you'd probably need 220V power for an 8" jointer.
I would totally buy a jointer on price, assuming a basic level of quality. The reason is that this machine does one thing and assuming the tables are flat and true, there isn't a lot of slop in the adjustments, and it's adequately powered, they all work pretty much the same. I bought an 8" Sunhill jointer a few years ago for, I think at the time, $650 or maybe $700. Haven't regretted it at all, in fact I'd buy the same jointer over again. The only change I would make it to go from a 4 knive cutterhead to a 3... the quality of the finish is the same and it's one less blade to sharpen and set.
I agree, there is not all that much to a jointer, knives, motor, and tables. If the table and fence are flat, go for price. I actually think Rigid has an EXCELLENT machine and the fit and polish is very good! I think the mechanisms are twice that of Delta and at roughly $340 US . . .
I'm only responding to the handwheel / lever thing, as I've used both.
I've had a handwheel jointer and a lever jointer and I think it's easier to adjust the handwheels. That said, I don't care much, because I never adjust the thing anyway. I suppose maybe I should... facing 8" ebony I should take a lighter cut than edging 1" soft maple... but I have it set to be OK with the heaviest, widest stock I really use, and I just adjust my feed rate instead.
As to capacity, it's almost certain that if you buy a 6" jointer, you'll want 8". If you buy 10", you'll soon have a project with 12" boards. And so it goes...
I've owned the Delta 6" model for about 10 years, using it in my cabinet shop. It has held up very well under daily use, however, when jointing long heavy boards things can get awkward, and the machine is only aroudn 200 something pounds so it can tip slightly if there is enough weight put on it. I'd say if you were using it for making furniture you will be fine, however, if you want to put an edge on a 16' piece of 8/4 cherry you will need some extra supports. My machine is currently on ebay for sale and I have ordered the Grizzly 8" jointer, which actually is only $650, the same amount of money you are talking of spending. As far as the crank wheels, I prefer the levers on the Delta. Usually when prepping boards we take some deep cuts initially and then a very shallow cut once the board is straight to finish the piece off. Operating the machine like this, the lever makes the height change very fast
wendy,
Just about all machines nowdays are made in Tiawan. a number of them are the same with minor changes/ paint and tolerances. A jointer isn't likely to cause much trouble.. they either work nice or they are junk.. take it out of the box. set it up and make a couple of passes on some scrap wood..
If it's nice now 30,000 bd.ft. from now it will still be nice..If it's a lousy cut return it..
My one objection is the size.
You will quickly learn that the six inch is too small for anything except jewelery boxes and nick nacks like that..
If you are going to build furnature and do finish work on a house you will need bigger..
That's the trouble..
Bigger costs more. I bought a grizzly 8 inch with long bed and it's too small at times forcing me to use my planner and a jointer box..
I also wish I'd bought the spiral cutters. they are soooooo much nicer and quieter..
A friend with one can use his long after the kids go to bed down in his basement.. He'd never dare to attempt the same thing with my straight blade..
But again we've made a big price jump..
The 8" grizzly like mine sells for $655.00 (US$) and the spiral head version sells for $995.00 (US$)
Hi Frenchy,
I have only worked with dimentional lumber (3/4" pine). I have yet to get into working with hardwoods. So far I've only built small pieces of furniture (2 end tables, 2 bedside tables and a few adirondack chairs for the deck, shaker shelf and a large workbench) I think it's time to move on to hardwoods now that I have some experience behind me.
Here are a list of tools that I have in my small workshop... 10" King contractor table saw, R-1000 router table, porter cable 690 combo router kit, 6amp Freud jigsaw and a Delta 10" compound miter saw. Now I think it's time to add a another Large tool to the workshop.
(Planer vs jointer vs bandsaw).... I only have enough saved to purchase 1 of those machines. Now I've read a lot of info regarding planers. Some people seem to think 13" benchtop planers are a waste of money. However I've read good reviews on the 13" 3 speed DeWalt planer and the Delta 12" 2 speed planer. The DeWalt came out the best. I'm only a weekend woodworker) I am rather tempted to purchase the Delta 14" bandsaw over the Delta 6"Jointer... but I think a jointer is essential if I want to start building furniture out of anything besides dimentional lumber (3/4" pine) Jointer and planer work hand in hand when milling lumber.. but if you can only afford one of those tools right now which one would you choose??????
Am I wasting money by purchasing the 6" jointer. Not sure I have room for an 8" jointer. Besides that's a little too rich for my pocket book.
The jointer is the only machine capable of flattening a piece of board right? I know I could always use a router and trimming bit to joint the edge of a board. Is a Jointer an absolute necessity if you're planning on building Armoirs, bedside tables, coffee tables, kitchen tables, double dressers, ect? out of dimentional lumber such as 3/4" pine. those boards you buy at Home Depot are never truely flat.
The Delta 37-195 model is going for $699.00 Canadian. I don't think This model comes with spiral cutters.
Wendy
A suggestion: Sell the compound miter saw, buy a Delta 14-inch bandsaw, Delta 12.5-inch 22-560 planer, AND a Delta 6-inch benchtop jointer. In US $ these 3 tools cost about $880, not much more than your jointer budget. Owning the benchtop jointer should tell you whether that is wide enough or not. You should be able to make a stand out of scrap pine. The fence isn't professional. Always check angle before jointing. It surfaces smoother than the big boys though, due to rotational speed which is variable. I used mine for ten years trouble-free, made furniture & large pro-style workbench, not small stuff. Short bed length can usually be compensated for by roller supports.I sound like a Delta shill. I am not. Prices in Canada may be prohibitive also. These tools are available in US at Lowe's, so they are very available. On a good day, you may find them at a better price than I quoted.In the later issues of FWW some writers have described how they used a thickness planer to flatten the first side of a board. You can go wider that way, too. It probably isn't something to do all the time, but in a pinch..... So, no, a jointer-planer is not the only way, but it is the easiest. Some workers insist on hand planing, too.I have a sneaky feeling that you will want an 8-incher. I bought one a year ago. I could live without it as I have no plans ever to build an armoire. Something I do now is finish plane both sides of my stock with the Delta 22-560, otherwise one side is smoother than the other. There will be many other tools you want to use also. Tenoning jig and mortiser or drill press w/mortising chisel comes to mind.Good shopping. (Why have I never imagined a use for a miter saw?)Cadiddlehopper
Edited 3/25/2006 6:23 pm ET by cadiddlehopper
If you are on a tight budget I certainly would not get a delta (or powermatic, or jet either) jointer. You are paying a premium for a machine that is little different than Grizzly/Sunhill/Bridgeport/York. Eventually you will want a jointer so you might as well get one now, add a bandsaw and planer later (portable planers are very good, I wouldn't hesitate at all on that point). I have an 8" jointer and wish I had a 12", if you have a 6" you will no doubt wish you had an 8" or bigger. Fact is, plenty of very nice work has been turned out with 6" jointers, so buy what you can afford.
Wendy,
My favorite tool is my planner.. if I had to have a portible bench top planner because that was all I could afford I certainly would.
If you are clever you can make a planner do some of the work of a jointer..
You will need to create a jointer sled and edge jointing with a planner is really difficult but can be done.. Edge jointing is something that can be done with a hand plane and some concentrated effort.
My technique involves the use of chalk. I snap a chalk line and use that as the starting point. Then once I have a smooth reasonably stright edge I rub chalk on it and plane until all the chalk is gone..
Back to the planer.
The joy of taking a rough ugly maybe even painted chunk of wood and have this wonderful smooth piece of furniture grade wood come out simply cannot be underestimated..
It dramatically lowers the cost of your wood.. I buy Fiddleback maple for 10 cents (yep! a dime) a bd.ft. 17cents buys black walnut and there are countless other real bargins to be had out there..
Sure these prices are rough and green at the sawmill and not just sitting there waiting for you to come by.. But if you are a walk in at the sawmill I go to you can buy white oak, ash, poplar, and a lot of other woods for 80 cents a bd. ft.
The green part is easy.. set the boards someplace in your house over the winter and by spring you can build whatever you want it should be dry enough.. Yeh you'll have to sticker them up and I suggest that you restack them half way thru the drying proces to ensure no warp or twist is developing.
Mill run is a little scary at first. Heck some of th wood you get will have knots and stuff in it.. not everything will be flawless. But that is part of the art of it.. Use the burls a other figure to enhavce your craft rather than make cookie cutter projects without any noteable character in it..
Save the fine flawless pieces for hidden places where the added strength of straight grain helps. Mill run on average means that 40% of the wood you get will be FAS 30% will be #1 20% will be #2 & 5% will have wonderful figure and interesting character the last about 5% will be pretty well scrap pieces, blocking, firewood and let's be honest junk!
After a planner I'd get a Band saw.. Actually I'd get the band saw before I got the table saw.
The order I'd get tools in would be
Planner, band saw, jointer, router, drill press, tablesaw.
(but evan I didn't follow my own advice)..
Frankly the six inch jointer is too small and you will quickly discover that only after you buy it.. Oh you might make infeed and out feed tables and lots of jigs etc. to make it work but a smarter choice would be to buy an 8 inch from the get go..
Grizzly is much cheaper* here in America than Delta is. while I don't know if it would remain as cheap up in Canada there must be someone who does the same thing.
* and in my experiance far superior..
.
Hi,
what's the model Number on your 8" Grizzily Jointer Frenchy? I found a 8" Canwood jointer selling for $999 Canadian online (house of tools) I've ordered from them in the past. They're in Western Canada. I know absolutely nothing about Canwood machines.
While checking out more online sites. I came across the General International 6" H.D XL bed jointer. The bed is 7-1/4" X55-1/4" Largest 6" jointer bed offered.Plus that jointer was rated #1 Editor's Choice, in tests by American Woodworker Magazine in 1999. Fence size is 4"X 29" . The bed on the Delta 37-195 is only 6- 1/8" I believe. The General international is listed for $799.00 Canadian.
Would I be better off purchasing the 6" General International over the Delta 6" 37-195 jointer? Now is that extra bit of width/length worth those extra dollars or would I be better off saving and investing in the 8" jointer?????? I'm going to go down and see if I have the space to fit an 8" jointer. If not then my decision is easy.
One things for sure... I won't be buying a band saw right now. Maybe down the road. I'm going to add a jointer to my small tool shop.
I only wish they sold Grizzily machines here where I live in Canada.
Wendy
Wanda
Wendy - you should check out King. They are basically the name brand Canadian knock off company. For example I saw a King 8" Jointer which is identical to my Delta X5, except the colour. I have now way of knowing if, for example, the bed is as flat as the X5, but, like I said is was identical. So, we have King instead of Grizzly up in the snowy north. One of the first major tools I ever bought was a King drill press and it works great after all these years. I believe they are available across Canada.
http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?NL=1
Worst case you could look at Busy Bee tools. They have stores all over the country (except, naturally, Quebec) and sell online.
http://busybeetools.com/
I have a Busybee Band saw, which works ok after tuning. I also have a Busy Bee belt sander, which works ok as well, but I've only had it for a couple months. I also have aone of their bagged dust collectors, which I recently upgraded to a Dust Gorilla, which is so superior its incredible.
Personally, my theory is for planing tools, quality is important so I narrowed dowm my choices to Delta and General. Things like blades and the potential to add a spiral cutter were also important, and I figured it would be unlikely that would be possible with a 'knock off'.
If you are in the Toronto area, I give you an extensive list of tool sellers.
Hi Piccioni,
I just checked out that link you gave me... Busybeetools.com.... Have you ever heard of CRAFTEX tools. I haven't. They are selling an 8" jointer for $899.99 That sounds too good to be true. 1 1/2 HP... What kind of machine are you really getting for that price. It has a jack knife cutter system, Large 72" bed.
Wanda
I have my doubt about Busy Bee... The same sort of feeling, what kind of machine are you getting for what seems like half the price of any other brand offered.
As far as I know Craftex is Busy bee own brand and is only available in Canada. I know one person with a Busy Bee/Craftex 6" Jointer and he had to return it to the shop twice before he finally got one that worked. From the Canadian woodworking forums this seems to be fairly common.
If you are Canadian and looking for lower cost equipment. I would suggest House of Tools 'Canwood' brand. I have a suspicion that it's made by General International. I know lots of woodworkers that use Canwood, and it seems reasonably reliable. Of course a little step up would be the General International equipment, and if you can afford it the real General stuff.
On a side note I have heard that Grizzly does not sell in Canada due to an agreement with Busy Bee/Craftex tools.
For comparison, the Grizzly 8" parallelogram jointer I bought was $750, with a 76" table. Under $900 delivered, with tax. Not everything costs what the premium brands cost.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Hi John D,
I wouldn't hesitate for a minute if Grizzly shipped to Canada. I just finished reading an article in one of my Finewoodworking mags. Big picture of the new Grizzly 8" jointer. Wow! It was chosen Editior's best choice 8" jointer.
I've only read good reviews about Grizzly machines.
Wanda
Well, if you hang around, you'll find Grizzly detractors too. I've seen plenty of negative feedback on Grizz, even from people who do not foam at the mouth. I think there's more complaining about Delta, etc., because 1) expectations are higher, and 2) they sell more units, so they're bound to have produced more clunkers.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Hi,
I have a few more specs to check out before I make my final decision. But one thing is for sure... I will have to go with the best 6" jointer I can find. I went and measured up my workroom earlier this evening and there isn't enough room for a big 8" jointer.
At least my search for the perfect jointer has been narrowed down. I'll just have to live with the smaller 6" jointer. Better than no jointer! I have (3) 6" jointers in mind. The King 6" KC-60FX, The King 6"Industrial woodworking jointer with a 55 1/2 " long jointer bed, and the General International 6" H.D.XL Bed jointer. ($799.99 Canadian) exclusive 7-1/4" X 55 1/4" jointer bed.
I have to check with my local tool shop to find out how much those King jointers cost. They don't have them listed on their website because they don't sell directly to the customer. They go through the dealer. I have a feeling the King Industrial model will be more than I can afford. All the King jointers come with a jack screw cutterhead. Not sure whether the Delta 37-195 6" jointer does.
If I'm lucky I might have a jointer in my small workshop by the weekend.
Wanda
Wanda/Wendy (I'm getting confused)
I wrote up a long post at work, but forgot to post it before I left. Here goes again.
It seems very few tool manufacturers make their own tools anymore. This is particularly true of machinery where it seems maybe three or so factories in Taiwan or China make most of the familiar brands. If you look closely at a machinery comparison ('We test 15 6" jointers") you will note that there are maybe three or four different machines, available in 5 colors (Grizzly, etc.) and the odd extra bell and whistle. Fundamentally there are only a few machines and a particular vendor decides what he wants to sell and how much he wants to sell it for, what the warranty will be, and so on.
Thats why I mentioned the King/X5 as being identical except for color. Now, it may be that the X5 is made to tighter tolerances, for example. In other words, maybe Delta will not accept a table which is out of flat by 1 thousandth total but King accepts 1.5 thousandths. One major difference is likely to be the motor: the higher end machines are more likely to have a better (i.e. American) motor, even if they are otherwise identical except for color.
So, Craftex is Busy Bee's tool brand, just as Grizzly is Grizzly's tool brand. I have spent maybe a couple thousand dollars on Craftx tools, and with the exception of the dust collector, I sill use all regularly, even though most had to be fiddled with to perform well. I also own a Unisaw, an X5 planer and an X5 jointer. My brother owns a 20" (?) Craftx planer and is pleased with it. I opted for the X5 because, as I mentioned I thought it made sense to get a higher quality machine (hoping I didn't get ripped off and by an overpriced King).
So, my experience is that the Craftx machines do what they are supposed to do, even if they are rough around the edges. I wouldn't be surprised if they have more quality problems than, say Delta, but Busy Bee is usually good about such things. I read recently here about somebody who bought an X5 8" jointer and had problems with it.
I wouldn't expect that Craftx is any better or any worse than Grizzly, or any of the other heavily advertized US brands. I suspect King is better than Craftx, but I may be wrong about that.
If you live in any of the cities with Busy Bee stores you can go check them out.
Wendy,
Go to grizzly.com and see what the prices are.. The currant version of my jointer is G0586
remember the length of the machine is only a tiny fraction of the space you'll need.. you need at least 8 feet from the cutter blades and 10 would be better. I use 20 feet since I work with pretty big stuff. That's ten feet on the infeed side and ten feet on the outfeed side..
Now finding that much space is nearly impossible unless you live in an airplane hanger and all the airplanes are busy flying <G>
So what you need to do is mount the whole assembly on wheels. Just push out and use it and push it back to store it. Ha!
I'll bet the table saw is in the way isn't it?
well,.... where are the wheels for it?
Get the message?
everything in your shop needs to be moble..
That or we're back to that unused airplane hanger <G>
when you are ready your dust collection can pick up dust from the center of the room where you roll everything to use it.
Hi,
Yup, the table saw is in the way? actually I'm lucky the table saw is on wheels like everything else in my small shop and I have 2 doors I can open. So all I have to do is wheel the ts out of the way and wheel the jointer to the center and I have lots of space to run large boards through the jointer without taking out a wall.
I will check out the King Jointer. I just don't want to find out the hard way later on that I need an 8". Best to spend the extra cash now and go for the larger jointer.
Wanda200
Wanda200
I get by with the 8 inch jointer because I accepted the fact that it was too small when I bought it..
Frankly I want a jointer that is as wide as a aircraft carrier flight deck <G> that way I could get rid of that stupid sled I made to flatten wide planks on my planer..
I would still go wiith at least the 8 inch jointer.. Without infeed and outfeed tables there is only room to rest a little over three feet on one side before it starts to cut.. if the curl isn't in those three feet you could spend a lot of time chasing your tail..
I found that I really need 8 foot infeed and 8 foot outfeed tables to quickly flatten any stock that is over 10 feet long..
I also think a 6 inch jointer can do moutains of work, particular edging. Sure, if you are face plaining a 8 , 10 , or 12 inch would be great and or necessary. Everything has it's limits, including shop space and budgets.
I wish I had a stationary table saw too. And I wish I . . .
Unfortunately, as you build more types of woodworking pieces and gain experience, you will find that working only with 3/4" surfaced lumber is very constraining. Especially when you start building frame and panel doors (really frame and panel anything) you'll see that the inevitable movement when boards are ripped and crosscut they will move, and are usually no longer flat enough to use as is. You can force them into alignment with clamps during glue-up, but the resulting frame will have some twist and/or curl and/or warp.
When building frames I now start with 5/4 rough boards. Rip and crosscut slightly oversize, let sit for a week or two to hopefully get all the movement out of the way. Jointer or hand plane is the usual method to flatten one side and one edge of the stock at this point. With patience and winding sticks, hand plane will get the stock flat enough; jointer gets them flat right now.
At that point, need a planer (or good hand planes and technique) to make the second side parallel to the flattened first side, and bring to desired thickness.
I'd suggest a benchtop planer, because they work rather well for their size, and 12" is a pretty wide board, and as expensive a jointer as you can afford - it's always more expensive to buy one and later upgrade to a larger one, than buy the larger one off the bat.
My experience with extension supports is they take a lot of time and patience to adjust "just right" so you have to decide if they would be a good fit for your personality and time demands.
I recently upgraded from an old 6" jointer with very short beds to an 8" Powermatic with 84" bed, so I can't comment on whether typical 6" jointer beds long enough to flatten 6' long boards. It will take a fair amount of arm strength (and courage) to wrestle with say 8/4 board for bed rail if you ever might build one on a typical 6" jointer bed length. You could build kitchen and similar sized cabinets for years with a 6" jointer with no problem.
You can cut curves in stock up to at least 1.5" thick with a hand held jig saw, just not at quickly, smoothly, or easily as with a band saw.
No doubt others have different opinions from me, and I'm not to going to argue who's right. Just offering my thoughts.
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