My shop is full of Delta machines and I’ve never had any problem with most of them, so I opted for the Delta mortiser. Not knowing anything about mortisers I was, however, skeptical of the price – $239 – which seemed a bit low for a quality machine of this size.
My skepticisn was justified, for while it looks substantial, a bunch of cast iron doesn’t a good machine make. (1) the chuck is a piece of junk, key doesn’t fit and there was so much grease in it that it wouldn’t hold a chisel. Then I couldn’t get it off to clean it because there is no spindle lock. After cleaning bits still spin. (2) Three of four chisels and drills supplied were dull and would only make clouds of smoke. Examination shows that drills are machined wrong by design. One drill is cast, but not machined at all. The shoulder of drill bit head contacts the chisel edge and dulls it. The machining on chisels is terrible (on the inside as the outside looks beautiful) and they shriek something awful. A little chatter you expect, but not a high pitched screetching. Lousy maching is the reason. (3) But the thing that really got me was trying to set up the machine. You’re supposed to set the drill bit 1/16 to 3/32″ below the chisel. What part of the chisel they don’t say – the tip, gullet, what? You have to wear gloves to do this to avoid cutting your fingers and the instruction presumes that you can see this to make the correct positioning, which one cannot. A decent design would have had proper stops machined into bit or chisel so as to avoid this nonsense.
I could go on and on with the problems and shortcomings of this machine. Suffice to say, by the time I was done screwing around with this thing, I could have cut my mortises by hand and then some. Set up for cutting just 8 mortises takes far too long. Assuming their chisels were any good, you need to do at least that many before any time savings occurs.
Bottom line is that if anyone wants to save time with a mortiser, you’ll have to spend more money than this. The machine lacks too many needed things like a graduated depth stop. All fence and hold downs are by means of set screws and allen wrench, which is unacceptable. You also need at least a macro fence adjustment and preferably a micro.
While the basic machine is sturdy, it’s just not very well designed and is as stripped down as a machine could possibly get short of supply your own motor and cord. Fortunately, I saved the box and it’s going back manana.
When the price is too good to be true, it never is.
Dave
Replies
Dave: I have the Delta mortise machine & didn't have any of the problems you refer to. I bought mine about (4) years ago. Also, the senior citizens center here in MI bought the same machine (2) years ago again, no problem. I think some machines were shipped with Austrian & some with Tiwanese bits. I forget which one is no good, but you must have the no-good-niks.
Jim
Dave,
I purchased my delta unit about 4 years ago and probably have cut 500 or more mortices and have had no problems with the machine, bits or chisels. In fact I am still using the same 1/4" bit. Occassionally use the 3/8" chisel. It worked right out of the box with no fuss or muss. Most of my work has been with oak and cherry.
Sounds like Dave got a bad one, probably the chisels & drills. I have never had a problem, same as you. There's an article in the next to last issue of FWW that explains how to sharpen the chisels & bits.
Jim
SOund like you didnt adjust your chisels right if it was squealing your bit is likely do far in the chisel...I just used my NEW mortiser (delta) this weekend to cut some 3/8 x 3/4dp mortises in cherry with no problems. there is nothing wrong with the chuck , it just that the KEY has the dam spring in it so you cannot leave it in the chuck.
I agree that it is a bit of a pain to set - up for say only a couple o mortises but when I make alot I will be happy to have this machine . I also think the dovetail-ways design is better more sturdy than the cheesy looking round shafts on the (other) makes out there. Thats why i went with this make.
I bought the Jet Mortiser for $249.00, and I think it's a great machine. It's a little more powerful than the Delta, and I though the fit and finish were better. That said, I think your problems are unusual. Try a good set of Fische or Clico bits ($30-65 each). You will be amazed at the difference in quality of cut over the crappy Taiwanese bits. The worst of these bits are next to useless. The Jet came with a set of half-decent Taiwanese bits that I use for blind mortises. I save the good bits for through mortises or other exposed work. The bit- to- chisel clearance is absolutely crucial. I burned up couple Taiwanese chisels getting this right. I use a dime to set the clearance, works fine.
Nah, I got the bit set right, well away from the chisel shoulder. The maching on the chisel's inside is terrible, and so is the bit.
I spent most of Sunday looking this thing over and testing it. Nothing wrong with the basic machine, short of the necessities it lacks, the chuck and four chinese bits that are duller than my pocket knife. I then sharped a chisel by hand with sandpaper glued to a chop stick. Really! It then worked fine in a piece of bubinga which is rather hard. So, today I called the deal whom I've done biz with for many years and cut a deal with him that I'd keep the machine if he would pay me the cost of a good chisel sharpener.
I then spent the rest of the say reworking that ridiculous fence and designing a toggle clamp hold-down, all from heavy aluminum. Now the chisel doesn't stick in the work piece and doesn't slew off even if I take just a small slice. I can now cut nice, long mortices without ragged edges. BUT, it took about 20 hours of work to reach this point.
I still haven't figured out what to do about the depth stop. Any ideas? Maybe just scribe depth marks on the chisel face?
Bummer. My experience with poorly designed equipment is NEVER try to re-engineer the thing.
A long time ago, I bought inexpensive (alright - cheap) tools thinking that I could expend my own (free) time end energy making them good.
It just does not work! Never. You spend a long time , even if you have a machine shop, in a very frustrating exercise chasing your tail, and you still have an inferior machine that works partially correct, if at all.
Live and learn. If it sounds too cheap to really work, it is.
Rich
I am getting ready to purchase a mortiser to build some arts and crafts furniture. I have seen a lot of talk about the Tiwanese chisels. I was under the impression that Delta was American made. How about some clarification before I make an investment in some inferior equipment.
Butch
Delta machinery is by no means exclusively American-made and has been that way for some time. While their stalwart Unisaw and some other higher-end machinery are still domestically made, much of their line is produced overseas, mainly China and Taiwan. This practice is an economic necessity for Delta to stay competitive.
The cheap chisels you get with a cheap mortiser are chinese made, not Taiwan. The ROC people would do a little better than the PRC commies! The chisels are useable with a little extra grinding to cut more relief behind the cutter head which rubs against should of the chisel. I note that one quality chisel costs as much as a whole set of cheap ones, so you decide what you want to pay for. These Delta chisels look like they'll have to be sharpened frequently.
The basic Delta machine is pretty much the same as all the other el cheapos, the main difference being the lack of refinements and design. The problem I had was that a high quality machine is a LOT more expensive, like $650 vs $239. For that low price you shouldn't expect too much. Once I got over the initial frustration, I set about fixing what was wrong. Fortunately, that was not too difficult. With a modified fence, strengthened table and toggle clamp hold down, it now works well enough to cut accurate mortises.
Of course, if I was out working making $50/hr. I would have more than made the cost of the best machine, instead of wasting time fixing up a Chinese special. Sometimes I have to relearn old lessons about not buying cheap stuff. However, I've been busy playing in my shop and not earning money. Hmmm.
Dusty Dave
I noted a dichotemy in the price of delta's chisels - $15-20 each and the price of the drill press mortising kit with and without chisels, the difference for four chisels being less than $30 or about $7 per chisel.
I asked the Delta rep about this once and he told me that the expensive chisels they sell are from Austria, the inexpensive chisels from Taiwan. Obviously the ones bundled with the mortising kit and the $239 Mortiser are Taiwanese.
On the other hand, a Wood magazine article last year comparing benchtop mortisers said they considered the Taiwanese chisels to be as good as the Austrian chisels.
The article also said the hold downs for all the benchtop models were pretty iffy and required some remedial work by the user to be good.
Loring
Edited 7/2/2002 11:45:13 PM ET by LCHN
Why wouldnt the mortiser attachment for a drill press do the same thing as a dedicated one? Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Tried that route, & just about the time you get the?/,(#2!1!! thing set up, you discover you need to drill some holes. No more since I have my Delta mortise machine.
Jim
Ron,
The mortising attachment for the drill press is far more difficult to set up because there are too many moving parts. The drill press table AND the mortising fence move side to side in addition to the chisel. It takes a lot of trial and error to get the chisel face square with your piece. It is also a little more difficult to plunge the chisel due to shorter arm length and possibly gearing (?). I have the attachment and use it successfully because it was very cheap compared to a dedicated unit. I bought the attachment minus the chisels for something like $40 at a wood show. I then bought a couple of the "good" Austrian Delta chisels. It works, but is a pain to install and set up and I still find myself pining for a dedicated machine.
What the advantage be of owning the attachment or a dedicated mortiser then mortising with a router? Other than if ya had a lot of them to do and it would be very time consuming to square them up. The reason im asking is because Ive been playing with the idea of buying one, either the attachment or a dedicated one or just keep on using the router. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
The router can make a very nice, smooth mortise. In my experience, however, it was more time consuming and a little more nerve racking (dangerous). I did not have any kind of jig for the router or a horizontal mount so I spent a lot of time setting things up to make it accurate. Then, you have to make several passes since you usually can't remove all of the material at once. With the router's tendency to suddenly grab the work and throw it, it always makes me a little nervous to have a bit burried deep in a work piece. Finally, you spend a bunch of time squaring up the corners or rounding over the tenons.
The mortising chisels, whether on a drill press or in a dedicated unit, make a square cut, take the entire depth in each plunge, and, in my opinion and with my tools, are faster to set up.
My view is that the router is too dangerous (to the workpiece) and a jig is needed for every piece. After putting in lot of time, I've modified mine with an adustable clamping system, modified fence and sliding aluminum table. I can now make perfect mortises every time very quickly.
I did all this using aluminum plate, angles & channels, plus threaded rod & a few plastic hangles and a toggle clamp. The most time was spent figuring out HOW to design it, along with a few mistakes that went in the trash. In the end, it was definitely worth the effort even for a hobbyist.
The delta fence is easy to correct; just put a 1/4" shim under it. You'll also find that if you provide a solid clamping system, all your problems with slewing bits and misaligned cuts disappear because with the machine as supplied, there is no way to secure the work. You can only clamp to a wobbly fence. It takes the tremendous pressures of a toggle clamp to secure the work adequately. i had to make a new table because the MDF one provided would bend under clamping pressure. A 1/4" plate table solved that.
Delta is the only mortiser (that I know of) that runs at 1750 RPM. All the others, I believe, run at 3400-3500 RPM, which will burn your bits quicker than you can see.
Jim
Actually, the Jet runs at 1725 rpm also. Works great. I had a Woodtek mortiser (breifly) that ran at 3450 rpm. It literally sprayed burning sawdust out onto my hands, and quickly trashed one of my $65.00 Clico bits by overheating. I sent it back. Woodtek now makes the same machine with a 1725 rpm motor. Shopfox just "upgraded" their mortiser from 1725 to 3450 rpm, some new owners claim it works great. Go figure. 3450 rpm seems way to fast for any drilling operation in wood.
Jim:
General makes a bench top mortiser which turns at 1750, is MUCH more robust than the Delta/Jet/ShopFox and has a much better hold down. Costs about $50.00 more, but is well worth the money. $850.00 locally for the Powermatic is a little too steep unless you make lots of mortises.
Michael
Where did you get aluminum plate? I can get aluminum angle at any hardware store, but not plate. I'd like to upgrade my Jet mortiser with a metal table and de-sta-co clamps.I think I saw an article about it in FWW. You are right about the hold-down weakness. I end up clamping the wood tight to fence and table for every cut to keep them clean and aligned. Slooooowwww.
I got 2'x3' sheet of alum. from a local artist that I did some work for. He told me that he bought it a local art story for doing etching on. Maybe worth a try.Scott C. Frankland
Newfoundland Wood Worker
Here's two online sources. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm http://www.metalmart.com/ I haven't done business with either of them.
There are lots of others. Do a search for "aluminum plate". You can include "no minimum" or "small orders" to limit the number of responses.
Scrap yards, computer and electronics recycling, recycle bins at machine shops and manufactureres. Put a sign in the window of your truck. Machine shops sometimes have stock left over from special jobs that they'll never use but can't bring themselves to drop in the recycle bin.
Edited 7/7/2002 8:25:24 AM ET by Uncle Dunc
I work around boat yards and raid their scrap barrels, plus I have an old alum. fuel tank that will keep me in plate for years. Check out what that stuff costs!
If you have a scrap yard near you, it's worth a trip there because they will sell you scrap real cheap. Plus, you can pick up all sorts of brass stuff, too.
Dave
Would you happen to have a sketch or photo of your solution?
Campbelldust,
My first experience with the drill press attachment ended up just as bad. I had started with a cheap set, and managed to return them for the Delta with the Austrian chisels. Even then, I spent some time tuning up the chisels. Seems like none of the articles, however, key you in on how to modify the "standard" guides that come with it. As you noted, trying to align the chisel and set the spacing at the same time is a real pain.
So I cut a number of 8" shims, with thicknesses of 1/4, 3/8, etc. I then took an 8x2" board, and glued a 4" strip, 3/8" wide to one edge. Setting the chisel against it, I glued another 4" strip to that side, against the chisel. That forms three sides of a square, exactly sized for the chisel. (Made another for 1/4 chisel.)
In use, lower the chisel and set the guide around it. Add the right spacing shim to enclose the chisel. Now bring the guide base forward until it contacts, and clamp in place. You now have the chisel perfectly spaced from the edge, and square in one step, with no measuring.
This worked fast enough and well enough that I've never bothered moving to a dedicated mortiser.
Gerry
Issue #156 of FWW has an article on pg 52 on sharpening mortise chisels & bits
Jim
I've used two bench top mortisers, a high-end (expensive) Multico and Delta. Both have their drawbacks. The fences/holddowns on these machines are rudimentary at best and neither holds the workpiece firmly enough to prevent binding on the 1st 4-sided plunge. At least the Delta depth stop works, the aluminum Multico slips. I broke a tooth on the Delta's rack gear, my fault though, I was using a 'cheater' doing hundreds of 1/2" mortises in really hard 8/4 QSWO. Tried the dime trick on a $40 3/8" Fisch chisel and don't care for it at all. Way too much slop, so much so the bit splayed the corners ruining the bit in 15 minutes. Forget the dime, use a bandaid on the calibration finger and do it by feel. If it squeals it's too tight, K.I.S.S. principle you know. Given the roughness of the bottom of the mortise I don't think a calibrated depth stop is of any practical value on any HCM. I go an 1/8" deeper than my tenon length to make sure it doesn't bottom out. There's no strength in that end grain glue line anyway so I don't clean them up anymore, but to each their own.
Fortunately I don't either of these machines. My purchase decision is between Powermatic and Powermatic. Either a bright shiney new 719A for $850 or a venerable old #400 foot operated beast with a phase converter for $1100. Decisions, decisions.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
I've had the Delta mortiser for about a year, haven't had any problems with it. The chisels are decent, but by no means equal to a set of Fisch's... but then again a good set of mortiser chisels will go $100. I've used my setup with a variety of hardwoods with great success, in my book it sure beats doing them by hand.
The setup is a pain the first time, but you get a system in place that makes it quick and easy after a few times.... chuck the bit/chisel, square up the chisel face to the stock and set the depth, set the fence and holdown and you're good to go. It takes me less than 5 minutes to do this.
The Jet/Fisch/Shop Fox/Delta machines are all good machines for what they were designed for. Each has a quirk or two, but bottom line is they work well for non production work. If you are doing production, get a machine designed for that environment.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled