I posted a message on breaktime about radial arm saws and would like to get some feedback over here. I am looking to purchase a radial arm saw for dadoing and cross cutting obviously to be used as a stationary unit. My price range is in the $600 to $700 range. The only machines that I saw in that range is the Delta 10″ Shopmaster Professional #RS830 and the Sears Craftsman 10″ with laser trac. I know of no others.
Now most people would suggest to find an old DeWalt or Delta but I don’t have the room for one of those big units. Delta also stocks many industrial RAS from 12 to 18 inch. But the prices start at $1400 which I think is totally outrageous for this basic machine but that is my opinion.
So I hope that you all can supply me with some feedback on the two units that I mentioned above. The Delta is made in the USA and I believe the Sears is made in China. I will say that the Sears is a not a bad looking unit so don’t count it out just because its a Sears. Thanks.
Replies
Look at the overhead arm construction. Delta is cast iron . Sears??? (Last time I looked the Sears Saws were not very sturdy up there.) Since any unwanted movement of the arm affects the cut accuracy and quality on a radial arm saw, it becomes a major point of interest.
The old Dewalts had cast iron arms. Even the latter series (black and pale yellow) Dewalts were quite sturdy. They were available in 10 and 12 inch sizes, perhaps looking for one of these might be an alternative.
If you are looking for a radial arm saw, the Delta is a safe bet due to its construction. I have never liked the Sears radial arms, always felt lightweight and flimsy to me.
I've used older versions of the Delta at a couple of shops I've worked at and have owned a Sears radial arm saw in the past. I'd go with the Delta. The Delta had beefier construction than the Sears and parts and service are less likely to be an issue.
Even if the two were totally equal in quality, I'd go for the Delta specifically because of what jc mentioned: parts and service.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have had both. Pick the Delta. The Sears swivels at the rear of the verticle post, placing a lot of stress on that joint, weight-wize. So it tends to go out of alignment more. No big deal, a framing sqaure a hex key and 10 minutes and you are OK.
The Delta swivels in the center of the arm, and will stay in alignment longer.
The Sears did not (please check) have a full length arbor, so three quarter dados, the kind I use the most were impossible.
Delta has a full length arbor.
I would really recommend that you try to find an old DeWalt, like from the 1960's or older on ebay. I got one for $700 that was 3 hp, 14 inch blade and 240 volts that is a workhorse. They don't take up any more room that a standard Delta or Sears.
By the way, if you get a Sears, get a service contract on it. I blew out my motor fairly quickly, and the Sears guy replaced it no questions asked. I liked my Sears RAS a lot, and was a trusted old friend for about 12 years.
The cheaper Delta, while a nice saw, simply did not have the horsepower or range of movement that the expensive Delta has, and I quickly sold it.
I now own a 1948 DeWalt RAS which is a cast iron beauty. Although it has the same alignment deal as the Sears, it doesn't go out of whack very often, and twice a year tune ups is all it needs.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
I have the newer craftsman, pre-laser, and have had no problems with it. I've never had any problems with service either from sears. Parts for older machines are hard to come by sometimes, but I use to have a 54 chevy sedan and PU, and parts weren't easy to come by for those either. If you plan on having the saw around in 30 years, the Delta may be the way to go, but then again, there are a lot of used craftsman's available also for probably less then individual parts.
Don
Thanks for the input and keep it coming, the 10" Delta is the only one in the series that uses the fixed horizontal column for the track guides for pull "cutting" action. All the other Delta's 12" to 18" use that rotating turret arm that pivots on the fixed horizontal column. Even with the increase in motor size I believe it does not justify adding and additional $1000 to the price.
I am going to take a much closer look at both the 10" Delta and Craftsman. I did notice that the craftsman uses the roller guide system the Delta uses for pulling the saw back and forth.
From the outset I would always lean towards the Delta because I think that their quality is probably better, but Radial Arm Saws is basically a two horse market with Sears and Delta. So I am hoping to advice from you all who actually use them. A lot of people think they are an outdated machine but I disagree because every shop could find a dedicated use for them.
As far as parts are concerned I keep all my manuals and have never had a problem getting parts for Sears lawn mower or weed wacker parts, although they can be costly. I do not own any Sears stationary tools and would only consider the RAS for that purpose. Any more thoughts?
The Sicilian
Sicilian,
here is a web page with a couple of used DeWalts if your interested...
http://www.brentwoodmachine.com/merchant/used_tool/CHOPRAS/chopsaw.htm
the company is in New Hampshire...
Wow.
That 14" DeWalt on that web site is what I have, although mine is a tad older. Same machine. And for $550, it is a steal. Grab this one!
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Boris,
I wish I had the space for the DeWalt saw...I'm working hard to save a little room for a bandsaw...should Santa be so inclined..
I visit Brentwood Machine on my trips up to Highland Hardwoods. They have some great old equipment and it appears they know how to service these pieces too. I would not buy big used equipment except from a place like this...that is relatively close by and stands behind their products....my knowledge base with equipment is just too weak
The 12" Delta is considerably heavier and stiffer than the 10" (which, in my opinion, is the best of the 10" saws currently produced). It's basically a small industrial machine, and is also available with a 3-phase motor. But if you don't need that much machine, and want new, I'd go with the Delta.
By the way, the motors on the 10" Delta, Sears, and Rigid of the last bunch of years are the same, made by Emerson. At least, they were; I'm not sure now that Emerson isn't making Ridgid tools any more.Be seeing you...
Paisian,
"A lot of people think they are an outdated machine but I disagree because every shop could find a dedicated use for them. "
Dedicated is the key word. Crosscuts on long boards in my mind is the primary use of that tool. And Dado's - conditionally. Frankly An RAS is an uncontrolled beast no matter who's brand. When things go bad they go real bad faster than you can react & get your hand or body out of the way. However crosscutting a long board is pretty safe.
I've owned a pair of the sears RAS. All are as accurate as you set them. Others may be better but the value (cost/benefit) is better with the sears. Parts have always been the sears hallmark. Parts are no longer commonly available at the local service center, now you use the net view the schematic order the parts and avoid the sneering malcontent at the counter. What's not to like about that?
Consider this, do all your Dados on your table saw and instead buy a 10 inch Mitre saw on a Delta sawbuck. You can't crosscut more than 6 inches but it is really clean, accurate, & safe. all for around 200 bucks. A sliding mitre saw would be even better but more expensive. It's mobile, it's accurate and it is relatively safe as it disallows dado cuts and other "specialty machineing work".Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
I have the old electronic model of the sears radial arm saw. It has been pretty good to me. I don't like how flimsy it is but at the time I got it for a steal because of a misprint in the paper they had to honor. It took almost a year and a half to get it and I think they had to special make it for me because they quit selling it before I got mine. I would go with what the others are saying. The heavier the equipment the better stability it will have. I will keep mine until it quits and replace it with what others are suggestion, some vintage model that I can rebuild.
I used to have a Delta 10" (Rockwell) RAS which dated from the early 1980s. I found it to be under-powered but I think that's generally a problem with the RAS. Unlike a table saw, you get a good deal less than the advertised horse power and that can be a problem if you're cutting anything more than 1" stock. I now have a 12" Dewalt which dates from the late 1980s. It's probably not as good as the classic Dewalts from earlier times but better than the 10" Delta.
The RAS seems to have fallen out of fashion lately and in many shops you'll only find a Sliding Miter Saw. But, that means there are some good bargains on used RAS as others have already mentioned. I would be on the look-out for a used 12" or larger unit. In terms of space, I don't think that the footprint for a 12" is much different than a 10".
Chip
Thanks again for the info everybody, I did take a look at that web site but to tell you the truth I would never spend that kind of money on something that I could not see or try out in person. To many variables. Also the cost of shipping
I was at a local tool show (new) at a supplier last weekend and was talking to the Delta reps while checking out the 10" RAS. Funny thing was that both of these guys who were from out of state did not know a thing about the saw. Although they both tried to act as though they did, the one guy popped the springs out of the swivel lever and did not even know how to unlock the column lock. So at that point I stopped asking questions as to avoid embarrassing them any more. If your going to send reps to a show they better know their machines inside and out.
Anyways in the Delta catalog specs the 10" weighs 166lbs, and the Craftsman weighs 204lbs from the Craftsman catalog specs. Both work surface tables are 27" x 44". The Delta has a 1 1/2 HP capacitor start capacitor run motor and the Craftsman has a 1 1/2 HP induction capacitor start capacitor run motor.
What I still find hard to believe is the huge jump in price from a 10" to a 12" RAS. When you think about it compare how much saw you are getting for about $1500 and then compare how much saw you get for $1500 with a 3HP unisaw table saw. I think that these machines are way over priced do you?
The thing about sliders is that they cannot dado and their crosscut capacity is limited and accuracy must be an issue with such a lightweight tool over time.
Thanks,
The Sicilian
Edited 11/4/2003 12:14:39 PM ET by The Sicilian
Having priced the same saws a couple of years ago, I couln't understand the HUGE price jump and just couldn't see what justified it. Having been down that route, here is the best answer I have:
1. The motor is double the HP and will give you longer better service, especially if you are sawing 8/4 stock.
2. The arm has about a 2" extra travel length in the 240 volt version than the cheaper one. Like you, I need it for Dados and about 12" is all I need. You might check the cheaper Delta, I think it is rated for 13 inches. The higher priced one is about 15".
3. The extra 2" blade will mean you can cut 4x4's in one fell swoop. Can't do that with a 10" blade. It also translates into a longer travel length. If that 4x4 capacity is important, then there you have it.
4. The higher priced one is 240 volt. This means the motor doesn't work as hard, and you are less likely to blow the motor. Longer runs out to garages mean lower voltage in the garage, and they take their toll on motors. 240 volt is the way to go.
Like I have said before, you can get equivalent saw by buying used. They are very much available if you have a couple months to shop around, and I like having some older antique tools. I think they are neat, and built like brick s h i t houses. Yes, you take a chance, but if the motor works, everything else can be "tuned up" for cheap. Like I said, you can get a used Delta or used older DeWalt for about $500. Just be patient, and jump when you see a good one.
One thing you haven't mentioned is the arbor length. My last Sears did not have a full length arbor to accomodate a 3/4 stacking dado set. Before you buy that Sears, take down your Dado set and make sure! The Delta will accommodate a full stack Dado.
The Sears will have a nice warranty (probably one year) and an option for a service contract (2 year renewable). Delta will be 90 days parts and service. The Sears won't be the saw that the Delta will be, but if you get the service contract who cares? They will replace the table surface, realign the saw, replace the battery, and replace the motor if and when it blows. I blew one, and Sears replaced it within a week. This was 5 years after I purchased the thing. The service contract is like $100 or so a year, and the cost of a service call is like $80 for doing nothing. So I would call them out once a year, have them replace the table, align the saw, and replace the battery.
Sears RAS are a dime a dozen used. Guys buy them, put them in their garage, think they can do everything, use them twice, and the wife sells them in garage sales 4 years later. If you really like the Sears, and your stack dado fits, then a used Sears at a garage sale is the way to go. I bet you could get one for $150-200. Check that arbor, pal.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
I'll be the one to ask the dumb question..
Why not use a sliding compound miter saw? My Dewalt cross cuts extremely accuritely over 12 inches.
I had a Sears and found it a terrible tool. One tool that after a week I took back. As for the dado, I have a hand held version that I use along with a straight edge. tons simpler to use and I can make something like a 3 inch wide single pass dado.
Howdy Frenchy!
Haven't heard from you on this BB for a while. Scooter/Boris here.
The RAS has some functions which can not be replicated as easy. Tenons; Dentil molding, cabinet dadoing for shelves and a 4x4.
I have a sliding miter too, a not so great Hitachi CF8, which needs to replaced soon, and yes it is (actually was) deadly accurate. But can't saw thick stock, blade can't be raised, can't hold a dado blade, can't hold a molding head, and other deficiencies.
At least for me, the woodworking tools are always a bit of a compromise. The heart and soul of my shop was the best d a m n table saw I could buy; then a high quality bandsaw. These are the two that I use most. After that it is the slider, the RAS, the jointer, the mortiser and the drill press. I wish I had an industrial strength bandsaw and the space for a good drum wide belt sander.Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
When working with my Dewalt compound slider I have no problem getting glass smooth dead accurite cuts right thru a 4x4 (that is actually 4+ x4+) it sure is a lot less unwieldy to use than the stupid sled gizzmo that I bought.. Trying to crosscut a 12 foot 4x4 on a table saw was an excersize in frustration.. breeze with the compound slider..
Working with longer wood the table saw is useless in my opinion but then I don't make little boxes and small stuff so I guess if that is your intention a table saw has it's place..
Like I said I bought a Sears radial arm saw since I saw so many of them.. I've never been so afraid of a tool in my life. (and I own some scary tools) it would snatch and grab and what's worse seemed to flex around enough that I was convinced it wanted my arm. The scariest thing I ever saw was someone doing lengthwise dado rips.
Someday try Mikita's groove cutter.. (Imagine a Skill saw with a dado head). slick, fast, and with a straight edge I can cut a full depth dado faster then I can make the same cut with a skil saw.. You do need to use a guide if you want everything dead nuts straight but you can also freehand it and do some really creative things..
You are absoultely correct my friend. I am debating that very issue as to whether to buy the 12" or the 10". While I don't need the depth for 4x4's at this time, I know I will in the future. Its just hard to comprehend a $1000 price jump from a 10" to a 12" RAS. Thats a lot of extra cheese to part with for not much more in features.
No question that the 2HP motor is a big difference but that aside, some comparisions from Delta:
Depth of cut 10" --- 2 3/4"
12"--- 3 3/4"
Crosscut 10"--- 16"
12"--- 14 3/8"
Table Size 10"--- 27"x 44"
12"--- 25 1/2" x 30"
While the depth of cut increases by 1 inch you lose 1 5/8" in crosscut capacity and you get a smaller table. You would think that you would at least match or better in these areas for $1000 more.
So its basically a two horse race if I decide to go 12" between Delta and a used machine if I find one.
If I go with the 10" its Delta and Sears. I am still wondering why the Sears weighs about 40lbs more than the 10" Delta.
The Sears does have the laser line feature with the RAS. Laugh everyone as you may but how many times have you just touched the blade to your cut line to mark your cut? Once you figure out the exact location of the kerf in reference to the laser line you should never have to continue checking your kerf to your pencil line. A valuable feature.
Thanks,
The Sicilian
The 10 inch radial arm saws have been light duty, "home-owner" versions for over 20 years. Even the Delta is a light duty machine; they did make a heavy duty version that had cast turret arms but was discontinued in the 70's.
The reason for the big jump in price is very simple - it is an industrial machine. Go to an industrial distributor or a shop that has a 12 inch or larger radial arm machine and take a look at it. Unlike the 10 inch machines, the Delta 12 inch and larger has cast steel arms - the 10 inch is hot rolled, roll formed product. Look at the bearings on the machine, check out the motor size, etc. Considerable difference. The downside is these machines, while they can accomodate dado heads, are really built for the continuous crosscutting duty found in lumber yards and large wood processing shops. They are meant to run day-in and day-out doing one thing well, crosscutting. Sears and the Delta Shopmaster are not industrial machines and they will not run continuously, day-in and day-out and they will not stand behind them for heavy, continuous work.
And as an aside, Sears does stock parts but they cost a fortune and you will pay through the nose for shipping which is based on the product cost, not the shipping cost. So a small, $75 part that can be shiiped in a shipping envelope can cost over $20 in shipping and handling. And who do you call with a technical question? Certainly not the part time, incentive based floor salesman.
Tools are an investment and require a lot more than looking at the price tag and a picture in a catalogue. Get out and visit folks who use the machines and work them hard and who rely on them daily. They'll give you the best feedback.
Your right in a sense, but not all tech advice is from experience either, have you ever called some places with a question and they put you on hold to ask someone else or look it up in the manual? A lot of these so called "tech experts" are just hired off the street and give a manual to study.
I hate to sound sexist, but I hate it even more when the tech rep is a woman. Most women don't have a clue about the tech specs and operation of a machine. It usually takes about one or two questions to find that out.
Same for some men too, like the two reps from Delta at a tool show I attended the end of October, both of them could not answer any questions I had about the 10" Delta RAS.
As far as a 12" being an industrial machine take a look at a unisaw and tell me which is more machine for the money. Both are roughly the same price. A radial arm saw is basically 4 components, a column, arm, saw and motor. I worked as a CNC machinist and machined thousands of castings, its no special procedure to machine a column and turret arm, its all setup in a computer program and run.
Your right about the cost of parts at Sears but if you get it at the service center you can eliminate shipping if it is sent to center rather than to your home.
I agree seeing is believing and I do want to check some out in shops if possible but the valuable input from you all throughout the country is also quite valuable to my purchase decision.
Thanks,
The Sicilian
Yes you are right about tech reps - and I don't recommend them per se. Instead, a good industrial distributor who reps to folks in the business knows the machines, their upsides and downsides. And the folks at shows are not, repeat not usually tech reps - they may say they are but in effect they are sales folks. And sales folks sell everything you can't make. I enjoy watching the Porter Cable and DeWalt reps on smoke break at shows comparing compensation plans, benefits, etc. Many have probably never used the machines they sell in their application environment - just test rooms.
The difference in cost between the Delta radial arm saw and the unisaw is dramatic. The trunion is the only real machining in the unisaw - surface grinding the table is not profound machining work - particularly in today's work cells. But the radial arm saw does have two arms and requires several axis to be in sync to properly seat the bearings. Also, there are many more unisaws made than radial arm machines, hence economies of scale. That's one reason Black & Decker jettisoned DeWalt - volume was low and B&D is basically a high volume, hig profit consumer products company.
Having 3 daughters, I also agree with your perceptions in the machine world. I currently teach 3 sections of woodworking in a private high school and invariably many of my best student are young ladies. Guys have a macho thing about tools and machines while many of the young women just see them as devices to get to an end point. Not that they don't appreciate the fine tuning of a good block plane but they could care less whether our bandsaw is Delta or Jet or Sears. The guys seem to pay more attention to that. My frustration is finding women in the cabinet/furniture business in my area - we do visit shops and all are men. Most of the women are carvers or scroll sawyers which is fine but I would love to find a woman chopping dovetails in a fine reporduction !
Well I went out today and did some comparsions on the 10" Delta and Sears. I even took a look at the Rigid at HD. Delta's motor is made by Emerson. The stand is somewhat wider than the Sears and the overall castings looked heavier somewhat, yet the Sears weighs 40lbs more.
I must say that the Sears appears to be more user friendly with more convienent placing of the lever locks and handles. Especially the depth control wheel is located directly under the table and is a hand crank wheel. (The Delta 12" is setup this way too.) Delta's is at the back where the column and arm meet. It is a clumsy lever that can be over turned and fall out. That said the Sears appears to be solid machine and you get a laser line for cutting.
At this point I just can't justify paying $1600 for a 12" Delta although I would love to have one. I do hate to lose the capacity for cutting a 4x4 with a 10".
Now Delta sells their RAS for $699 and at some shows you can get 10% off.
As we speak Sears sends us a sale flyer for next week and in it is the 10" RAS for $516 on sale plus a free mobile base. I think if you are going to buy a 10" saw this is the way to go. That is almost a $200 difference and a free mobile base too.
Don't get me wrong I hate to buy any Craftsman power tool and was hoping you all would talk me out of it. But after looking at both machines I was convinced that Sears gives you more for your money. I just hope that the overall quality of the saw holds up well. It also seems like a lot of you also have bought a Sears RAS at one time. This is the one machine that Sears makes that I always said I could make an exception for. I don't have a production shop so I should fit well with me.
Oh by the way Norm Abram used to use a Sears RAS in his early shows with Bob Vila if anyone ever noticed in addition to his 3HP Delta Unisaw. (I know you all just hate any references to him!!)
So what do think? Do you agree with my findings?
Thanks,
The Sicilian
Sicilian,
I think your findings/comparasions are pretty exhaustive except for maybe resale value...which may not be very important to you.
I re-read all the posts and can't help but get the feeling that the most critical issue however, which is not in your equation, is being ignored. It seems to me, from what I am reading, that trying to decide between RAS's is like trying to decide on a table saw. Using the TS as an example, your analysis is comparing which contractor saw...what I hear others saying is a cabinet saw makes a world of difference and is quite different than a contractor saw...and they go on to say...used is an inexpensive way to get that difference.
As long as your not ignoring that issue it seems your good to go...
Your right BG but the difference here is that a cabinet saw will get a LOT more use that a RAS will. Therefore I can justify the extra expense for that machine in addition to receiving a some nice extras with it like a top of the line fence (also available with a contractor saw) and your choice of two. A mobile base, and a solid cast table and additional table to the right.
When you purchase a 12" RAS you get nothing extra and as I pointed out in some areas you get less. If you use the machine a lot and need the depth, the 12" would be the one. A good chopsaw can give you the depth you need for full cuts on 4x4's.
As far as resale, I never worry about that as I buy for my own use and if I want to upgrade I'll worry about that then. I consider it as money spent and gone. The pain is over. There will always be a homeowner who will be lingering to take it off your hands if need be. Most homeowners think that Craftsman is the only power tool made. ( maybe should add Ryobi, Rigid, to that list).
Sears does offer a 5 year in home warranty for $129.
By no means am I cheaping out on the issue, I just feel that I am getting the best value for my dollar without sacrificing quality. I looked at the construction of both machines and I have to tell you this Craftsman is well built saw. I looked at bolt sizes, the support clamp that holds the column steady to the table etc.. and it is very solidly built, and in some areas better than Delta.
Hey it also weighs 40lbs more, you can't call that flimsy. That alone is a big difference, and the table is 7 inches narrower!
I think its time Fine Hombuilding does its own tool test on RAS.
Thanks,
The Sicilian
Did you check the arbor length? Get a stacked dado set and actually try to install a 3/4 inch dado. I'm telling you, it might not fit.
I had a Sears RAS for 12 years. Fine saw. Loved the warranty. Hated the arbor, which really held me back.
The little handle in front for blade elevation is c r a p p y. It will stiffen up and become very hard to rotate. You need to get underneath and look at the linkage for it and understand how it works and where it binds and grease it from time to time.
Get the service contract. Use it every year and have them adjust the saw, replace the table, give you a new battery (it has electronic calibrating) etc. Use a good 12 ga power cord and beware of voltage loss.
Don't try to rip with it. You'll be sorry if you do.
Most of all, have fun.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
I want to support what Boris just said. I've got a Craftsman that I bought used for $200; indeed the crank for adjusting height is a pain; the whole machine wobbles horribly as I crank the height up or down. He's insipred me to go out and grease the poor thing.
However, I also want to point out that I really like the machine, and I think I would outright love it if I had that laser. I have put a dado blade onto it without issue, but I still stongly recommend that you follow Boris' advice re: the arbor. I bought a Sears TS that had a short arbor--poor planning on my part--and was absolutely rageful in about 6 months. No dadoes wider than
1/2", what a pain--especially with that cheesy little impossible-to-square fence. And the dado thing is one of the RAS's best features, so...
And, I disagree about ripping, as long as you carefully follow some common sense guidelines; the RAS rotation is backward from what we're all used to on the TS, and requires a re-thinking to get it done safely. And it is definately harder to rip well and safely on a RAS than on a TS. But I have used it successfully many times when I didn't want to disturb my TS setup. I will say this--if it ever does go wrong ripping on the RAS, it's dramatic and scary. And, the splitter assembly is wierd to get used to, pawls are crappy, etc.
It's a versatile piece of gear. Enjoy.
CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Wow, Charlie, you have more guts than I do. Someone who actually ripped on a RAS. You are the man, Charlie.
At least it wouldn't kick back, right? Doesn't it throw it the other direction?
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Um...not sure if you're being sarcastic here...there are clear instructions on how to rip with a RAS in a book on RAS's that came with the saw....
Of course the RAS will kick back, any rotating cutter has that potential. My previous statement wasn't worded very well. What I was trying to get at is that the RAS has the tendency to lift the workpiece off of the table, whereas the TS's force is directed downward, pressing the work i n t o the table. Assuming all other things are equal--blade parallel to fence, splitter in place and functioning properly, etc, that's the main difference as I see it. I'm not trying to say that it's a small difference; I can just imagine what it's like to have a workpiece lift up on you with that huge spinning 10" blade in the middle of it (shudder). I've read that this problem can be largely overcome by using a blade specifically designed for the RAS with a rake angle intended to minimize the lifting of the workpiece. I think Forrest makes 'em. I have always just used a combo blade tho' (avoiding my TS rip blade in fear of the sharper rake angle).
I think that trying to send the workpiece through from the other side (so that any kick would be thrown the other way) would simply jam the saw; you'd lose control of the piece as the blade pulled it away from you, and the blade would suck the work piece forward faster than the saw would most likely be able to cut; my guess is that the saw wold lock up and the workpiece would be ruined. Wouldn't care to try it though...
Just my experience so far.
CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
The sale on the Sears RAS starts on 11/12 so I still have a couple days to hash this out with you fellas. I'm like a voter on election day, although my mind is pretty much set, you never know until the curtain closes and you pull the lever. (In upstate NY we pull levers not punch chads).
One thing that annoys my about Sears RAS is that they have no spec info in their tool catalog, or for that sake on their website. They do have a link to the owners manual but when you click on it a message pops up telling you that nothing exists on the host server. I contacted Sears to find out why and after about a handful of "press this number messages" a live voice arrives to tell you that I'll transfer you to our online department and then starts another round of "press this number message" until a live voice again. Then I got cut off.
Sorry for rambling but the point is if you are going to sell tools have a catalog that gives you a complete breakdown of power tool specs especially at the very least stationary tools that cost hundreds of dollars.
Boris I'm still working on that arbor length.
What I wanted to ask you all about was the dangers some of you have elaborated to when operating a RAS. Can you be more specific and also what preventative measures can be used. In the case of liftup of the workpiece would hold down clamps like the ones used on miter saws be of any use?
Charlie what does your manual specs give for arbor length on your RAS?
Dados with a router? What if you are doing them in 2x or 4x stock? It seems like a lot of work with not a lot of support.
Picked all the rest of my hot peppers yesterday before the hard freeze last night, time to make the chili.
Thanks,
The Sicilian
Edited 11/9/2003 10:27:36 AM ET by The Sicilian
I don't have a manual with my saw; rather, the guy gave me a book on RAS use. I can check the arbor, but the dado I mentioned was an adjustable width, 2 blade one straight one wobble type; those usually don't fit on short arbors.
Boy, I saw an old 12" DeWalt RAS in Longmont Co today; the guy wanted $275 for it. What a beauty! I'd trade in a heartbeat. I like my RAS, but the Sears can't compete.
Checked--my arbor length is 1 13/32 inches. With both flanges and the nut (reverse threaded, by the way) on, there is right at 3/4" of arbor left to work with.
CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I have ripped stock on my ras as a standard procedure. I usually work with rough stock to begin with and have built a sled that will put a straight edge on up to a 10 foot board. I find it easier to use than a table saw for both crosscutting and ripping but I have an infeed and out feed table on both sides of the saw that are 10 foot and 8 foot respectively. The infeed table is my kiln to dry the rough stock and both tables are the exact height as the saw. Sometimes things get dicey when trying to rip narrow stock and I would prefer a table saw but I dont have the room for one right now. After reading alot about the ros's and there safety concerns I find that the operator is the final judge. I still have all my fingers and 20 20 vision. I have been in skilled trades all my life so safety has always been a top priority. Just don't do anything that you don't feel comfortable with.
Expecting God's Best,
Tony
While I am looking into that arbor length, I thought I would post the extended warranty info that you can purchase and what it details. The standard warranty with purchase is 1 year.
Here is the warranty info that Sears offers with the RAS:
View Image
View Image
Better than an extended warranty, a protection agreement goes beyond your manufacturer's warranty to protect you from unexpected repairs and help maintain optimal product performance. Here's how:
•
Professional service by trained Sears technicians you can trust
•
Complete parts and labor for all covered repairs at no extra cost. This includes normal wear and tear and even cosmetic parts for 3 years
•
Unlimited service calls on covered repairs at no extra charge and no hidden fees
•
If we can't fix it, we'll replace it
•
No hassles -- you deal directly with Sears, not the manufacturer
•
A free annual preventive maintenance and performance check at your request
•
See more features and benefits
View Image
During Checkout, choose the Protection Agreement that is right for you:View Image
2YR In-Home Master Protection Agreement
$59.99
View Image
3YR In-Home Master Protection Agreement
$99.99
View Image
5YR In-Home Master Protection Agreement
$139.99
Thanks,
The Sicilian
To answer your question, Delta. I agree with those that recommend using a slide compound for cross cutting. Much more versatile for trim and miters etc. Dadoes on an inexpensive radial arm can be shakey both in the cut quality and the strain put on the saw. I prefer to use a router for dadoes and the table saw for ploughs and rebates. Radial arm saws can do some tricks, you can even mount a chuck on some but most have a few quirks you have to cope with. Even the expensive Unipoints are a chore to switch from 90 to 45 accurately.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled