Delta router/shaper vs ordianary router
Hello,
Just finished checking out Rideout Tools.com webpage. I had no idea they sold Delta Router/shaper. (model # SH 100) 9 amp Ball bearing induction motor. Convenient spindle control knob with height indicator scale facilitates height adjustment; lock knob securely holds setting.
- Accepts all 1/2 and 1/4in. shank router bits for cutting mouldings, decorative edges and common wood joints.
- Thermal overload protection prevents motor overload.
- All-purpose, 12,500 rpm spindle speed handles any routing or shaping job, including horizontal panel raising.
- Two-piece fence with independently adjustable halves assures precise depth-of-cut settings and secure after-cut work support. Fence is removable for freehand routing and shaping; an accessory insert accepts template guides for pattern routing.
I doubt the Craftsman Professional bench top router I bought (but haven’t unpacked yet.. .still on top of my workbench) can do all that.
I might just bring back the Craftsman bench router I bought at Sears. Unfortuantely they don’t list prices on their website.. So I will have to phone and inquire about the Delta router/shaper on Monday. I want to buy the best router I can afford. And if this router can do more and the price is right.. I’m probably better off buying the Delta.
What is the difference between an ordianary router and a router/shaper ?????? I can keep the Craftsman professional bench top router I have and still afford to buy the Delta 22-580 13″ planer… or I can purchase this Delta Router/Shaper and be without a planer… OMG! What should I do?
Wendy
Wendy
Replies
Wendy' if this is the machine I think your referring to, it has an induction motor. You can use 1/2" bore shaper cutters or router bits. You cannot remove it and use it as a free hand router. I used it on a large millwork job on a docked ship. We had shapers in the shop but could not get them onboard. Only a narrow temporary gang plank was available.This machine surprised me, I thought it was a toy when it was brought aboard. It did an excellent job of making raised panels and anything else we did.
mike
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the input. Check out the attachment and let me know if it's the same model you've used.
I have decided to return the Craftsman bench top router I purchased from Sears last week. Took it out of the box tonight and I wasn't very impressed with the insert or the table top. Too much plastic if you ask me. I'd prefer a much smoother top with less friction.
Now if only I can get the router table back in its box.
I'll have to visit Rideout tools tomorrow and check out this Delta router/shaper. I have a feeling it's going to be out of my price range.
Wendy
Hi,
Darn! forgot the attachment..........
That's it Wendy, I did not see a picture but downloaded one from Tyler tool co.$249.00 free shipping.We used this machine 10 to 12 hours a day for 5 months,that's almost continous use.Never had a problem with it.
mike
I would strongly recomend that you look at a good big (3+ hp) router. That "shaper" is a difficult comprimise to live with. The speeds are too slow for general routing work, ie. roundovers, beads, ogees, coves, chamfers. And it has less power than a PC 7518. The fence is very light. The whole thing is really too light for spinning large bits.
I'll put it this way : There is a lot of "discussion" about weather a big router or a 3 horse shaper is better for big bits. Many think that a good three horse router is not enough, and the tool you are looking at is less powerfull than a big router.
A good router is much more versitile.
Mike
I passed up on that Delta unit several years ago. It has a small table, separate fences that I thought were a pain to adjust, and as mentioned above, that little induction motor. Also, look at the difference in speeds between your Craftsman (or any decent variable speed router) and the Delta R/S -- routers top out around 25,000 RPM. The Delta description is an effort to make a lightweight machine sound like much more than it is (IMHO). That little machine is not a "shaper" in the usual sense of the word.
However! when this was discussed last year sometime, there was someone here that had used it and liked it! So, hopefully he will speak up here to give you another view. If not, you might be able to find it by searching the archives.
All that being said, I'm going to suggest you reconsider the Craftsman purchase [assuming it's the 2HP, 9amp model] -- another $30 will get you the Milwaukee, which is a great router. Another $30 above that (all $US) would get you a Porter Cable (or equivalent, probably) combo set. These are all prices off the Sears site; there probably are better deals at, say, Amazon, if you can order there from Canada.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forest girl and Mike, the 3/4 hp induction motor has more real horse power than a 3hp router. I have the Porter cable 3hp ,5 speed, slow start , router , this router does not compare with the "little 3/4hp motor" on the delta shaper. The universal motor on the router is rated 3hp, I'm sure someone else can explain better than I why the induction motor has more "oomph".
mike
Actually a GOOD 3 horse router (like your PC) does have more horse power than a 3/4 hp induction motor. A three horse universal motor is roughly equal to a 2 horse induction single phase motor, although many would argue that it is closer to 1 1/2 hp. Of course this is a difficult compairison to make because the tow motors are used very differently. Universal motors are capable of much more speed (20,000 for most routers) and they can put out lots of power intermintantly. Regaurdless even the most optimistic viewpoint puts the 3/4 hp induction motor well below a big bad router.
Having said all that, my real reason for not getting the "mini-shaper" is versatility. The router can do a lot more, and you can mount that router in a good shop made box with a great shop made fence.
I have a customer (I am primarily a carpinter/ remodeler) who was having trouble making raised panels in his home shop. His problem was math related not with the machine (the same delta shopmaster router/shaper). I helped him set up the bits (a freud door set for routers) and as soon as I started milling the stick cuts I thought the machine was limited at best. For most stick/ cope bits you want to be in the 1600 rpm or faster range to get a smoth, easy to feed cut. I felt like I was feeding the stock into a box fan on that machine (well not that bad really ;-). When we switched to the panel raiser the machine performed closer to what I expect from my router table, but there was noticibly less power. Aside from all that the fence sucked for fine adjustments, and the lift was not much better.
Mike
HI,
I brought back the router table I purchased at Sears last week. I was just wondering.... How does the Porter Cable 960 router combo kit compare to other routers. If I'm not mistaken I believe the 960 I have is only 1 1/2 hp. What's the best router to use with a router table? I don't really need a variable speed router if I'm only using small router bits do I? The 4 bits I have are all 1/4 inch shank. (small bits) 1. roman ogee 2. 1/4" roundover 3. spiral 4. dado 5. trim bit
I have to make up my mind now whether I'm going to buy the Delta 22-580 planer ($349.99)or the R-1000 router table ($389.99 Canadian). This is a very difficult decision. I'm still undecided. Shame I can only afford 1 of these power tools. I'm kind of edging towards the planer because of the sale price. Down the road I could probably build my own custom router table for less than $389.99
Most of the small woodworking projects I've completed so far have been built out of Pine (s4s) and laminated pine panel board which you can find at just about any hardware store. I have yet to build any furniture using Hardwood. That's one of the reasons I've put off buying a planer/jointer. I have used the router on every single woodworking project so far. Trying to router small pieces clamped to the workbench is not my idea of fun. So much easier using a router table. But so far I have managed to get by without having the luxury of owning a router table.
If you were in my shoes Forest Girl what would you do? Buy the planer and build your own custom built router table later down the road or/ purchase the commercial router table. I have it on good authority that the r-1000 is an excellent table (very durable) and It has a Large laminated table top. It is fully enclosed with storage drawers on either side. (guess you'd call it a floor model) 38" high It ain't no bench top router table. LOL
Wendy
Wendy, if you're happy buying finished lumber for now, then stick with it, especially if you're frustrated about the router situation and are really craving a good router and router-table set-up.
I didn't realize you already have a 1.5HP Porter Cable router. In view of that, taking back the Sears router was, IMHO as always, a very good move. If I were you, I'd put two router items next on my list:
A good router table
A 3HP plunge router
I'm going to strongly suggest that you start buying 1/2"D router bits whenever possible. They are much stronger and safer than 1/4" bits! For some bits, 1/4" is the way to go (very small straight bits, for instance) but for most purposes, I really think you should be using 1/2" bits.
Don't let your choices be motivated by sale prices. It's very rare for any given sale price to not be repeated down the road somewhere. "I have used the router on every single woodworking project so far. Trying to router small pieces clamped to the workbench is not my idea of fun." It sounds to me like, all things being equal, you really want a better router set-up -- much more than a tool to mill lumber with at this time.
I don't know what the R1000 you speak of is. Is it that cabinet set-up made by a guy in Canada (he used to sell on eBay)?? I always thought it looked pretty good, but I'd have two concerns relative to comparably priced alternatives: (a) the precision of the fence and (b) how long the top would stay flat with a good (read: 3HP) router in it.
I'm still a die-hard fan of the Lee Valley table (and fence, though I don't have it "yet"). The universal mounting system means you never, ever have to make or get a new base-plate for the table. The steel top will never, ever sag. I have it from a couple of users that the fence is just great. And, their accessories are affordable. The tabletop and fence would cost you $329 CAN and you can build your own cabinet to suit. You can start with something simple, just a box -- wouldn't cost you more than 10 bucks -- then build your dream cabinet when you're ready. You could even just buy the tabletop for now. It's easy to make a basic straight fence for temporary use (I've been using mine for 3 years now, LOL! Took me one afternoon and maybe $5 in materials).
"If you were in my shoes Forest Girl what would you do?" I would put off the planer, buy the Lee Valley table and fence and an extra base for my PC690 so I could leave one base attached to the table. Then I'd start saving up for a 3HP "horse of a router." Believe me, it is an amazing and euphoric experience when you start working with a big router like that (1/2" bits, remember).
One last thing, yes you need variable speed! You can get a speed control for your router to plug into for around $20US if you look around. I have had far fewer scary incidents since I started taking advantage of variable speed.
Hope that helps. Feel free to email me if you want.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hello Forest Girl,
Dear Lord, that is one hell of a reply to my last post. LOL You are a wealth of information... I am so tired this evening so I will have to e-mail you later. I know you love the LeeValley router table. The man who builds the R-1000 router table is from Newbrunswich Canada. Not sure if he's ever advertised on e-bay or not. Rideout Tool and Machine here in town (my local dealer for specialized measuring tools, woodworking tools and other machinery) stock his router tables. $389.00 not including taxes. (approx. $420 taxes in. ) Wish I knew the man's name. Not sure if they still have a picture of the r-1000 on their website. Go to Rideouttool.com and you might be able to find a picture of it.
A friend of mine who used to work down at Mill Lane for 5 yrs building furniture recommended the r-1000 router table. He told me it was one of the most used machines in the shop. Constantly in use day in day out. It's a cabinet style router. So I figure it must be pretty durable.
I agree, Sagging is definitely one thing to watch out for when buying a router table. Guess my 1 1/2 hp porter cable 690 is a lightweight hey? :( The guy at the tool shop mentioned something about an accessory that can turn your router into a variable router... The router plugs into it.. anyways it costs around $60.00 and that's without tax.
The other day I checked out LeeValley router bits and I also read an interesting article in the recent issue of Popular woodworking mag. on reversible bits.. so much to learn about bits. So my money is better spent buying 1/2 inch shank bits. hmmm
Would be a dream to have a soft start router. Can't imagine how a 3 hp router would feel. Must be awesome. But why a plunge over a fixed? Thought fixed routers were better for mounting under router tables.
Gotta get back to watching tennis. Serena Williams is playing...
Wendy
I'm 99.9% sure that the R1000 is the table I remember. If you have that kind of hands-on feedback about it, I'd say "go for it!"
$60 is too much for the variable speed control, even in Canadian dollars. That's for a heavier duty unit than you need with the 690, and probably a more expensive store too.
Not all bit makers/sellers charge extra for 1/2-inch shanks. Even if they are a little more, I think they pay for themselves in ease of use (fewer passes for instance) and I just feel safer using a 1/2" bit, especially when routing a good-sized profile.
Re: plunge vs. fixed, there is some advantage to having a fixed-base under a router table. However, they do make lifters for the plunge routers if you're aggravated over time <g>. Chances are you're going to want a plunge router of some sort. You could always pick up a plunge base for the PC690 you have. The PC'll be alot easier to use in a hand-held situation than a heavy 3HP unit, for sure.
I have the big Freud router mounted in my table now, and while it takes longer to raise and lower the bit, I like the precision I get when turning the handle, and sometimes I even use the depth stops if I have to leave a set-up I'm going to return to in the same project.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi FG,
Well I went out and bought the R-1000 router table at Rideout Tools. I believe the laminated table top is 1 1/2 inches thick. Don't think I have to worry too much about sagging. I think I'm going to be very happy with this table.
They would have delivered it today but my tool room/basement is in such a mess I told them to wait until next week. Hopefully by then I will have everything back in order. :)
So I now have a drill press and router table to put together plus 2 end tables. Thank god I all ready have 1 table completed and the parts cut out for the 2nd table. It just needs to be assembled. Can't wait to get that project out of the way so I can get started on a headboard.
I'd love to hear more about your freud router. I thought the pc 690 router I have was a 1 1/2 hp. Found out today that it is actually a 1 3/4 hp. :) I'll have to save up for a heavy duty router now. How does the Milwalkie router stack up against the Porter Cable, Makita and Freud routers?
I'd like to know how to make mortises using a router table? What I need is a really good DVD on how to use the router. I'd like to know what each router bit is used for. I don't think FWW has a dvd on the router.
Wendy
Wendy! If the router works for what you want.. It is OK!
Forestgirl -
10-4 on using 1/2" D router bits. One other thing I've observed with them is that I get probably 50% more life out of them before needing to be resharpened. The guy at MVP Sharpeners told me that several times before I took his advise.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Seems like a slam-dunk to me, but there are those who need convincing. ;-) Interesting to hear about the longevity of the cutting edge. I wonder what physics lies behind that?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 8/17/2005 11:53 pm ET by forestgirl
I don't know. It could be more heating or chatter with the 1/4" D bits.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled