I’d like to build a simple desk for my wife. she makes jewelry from beads and semi-precious stones. The idea is to have a circular depression in the desktop, maybe 1/4 or 1/2 inch deep at the deepest, where she can put beads she’s pulled out of her containers before they’re wrapped or put on a necklace/bracelet/etc. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been crawling around the house helping her try to find a bead that’s made a break for it.
Any thoughts on the best way to do this?
Thanks in advance!
Matt
Replies
If you have a lathe, it would be easy to screw the top onto a face-plate, then turn the depression in the face. If not I would use a router with a template and guide bushing, or even using a tramel to rout the perimeter, then just free-hand the inside field.
How big will the "dishes" be ? If you have a plunge router your well on the way. I would make up some oval/round templates to just over desired size, You'll have to measure how much room the bearing or guide bushing extends past the bits edge and make the template that much begger than the desired dish size. And get a bowl/tray/lettering bit with bearing or use guide bushings to follow the template. If you get the bit with a bearing the template will have to be fairly thick since your making such a shallow dish. When using templates be sure to double side tape them down, or make the template big enough to clamp it down. I would probably plunge about 3/16 at a time using the depth stop, Start in the middle and start working out in a clockwise circle only. You will be working uphill and downhill on the grain so expect some fuzzing. That bit can be found @ http://www.eagleamerica.com In the search block put in 144-1205 that will get you to the dishing bits.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I would use a template cut Inside to the size you need for the depression and clamped to the top of your actual work-piece. Over-head bearing bit to trace the out-line on you're acutual piece and then the rest can be done with a straight bit inserted in your router. Once you have in-cremented the outer peri-meter to full depth with the O-head BRG bit, you can remove the template and proceed with the straight bit as the precision portion has been accomplished.
The best templates IMO, are made from 1/2" MDF. Solid, works easily with my barrel handle jig -saw, oscillating sander, rasp or file and if you DO blow it, you don't have to file bankruptcy as it's cheap. Back to the drawing board. :>)
Good luck...
grinder47.. jt
opps.. meant to direct this to kummell
Edited 6/25/2006 12:11 am ET by grinder47
OOps. No problem, I might add, that depending on how large the dish is. I some times make progressively larger templates of the same thickness so I have plenty of support for the router base and leave the templates in place all of the time. Not a fan of making a perimeter ring and then working inward. Near the end I sneek up with very light cuts and move quickly, especially with cherry, One doesn't want to be sanding out burns. And no straight cutters for me, I prefer the flat bottomed dish cutters, much better finish. To Each his own.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I like the dish bits too, good results and one of the most forgiving of mistakes !
Burned cherry to be sanded out is not your friend, burned maple not much better. Red oak seems to be the easiest to sand burns out of but I still strive mightily to avoid it.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
In 34 years, I have never used a dish bit... but it's never too late to give one a try. What was mentioned about burn is reason enough if you guys are getting clean cuts without risk. Done deal..
Regards...
grinder47..
Whoa, Back Up !! I didn't say Dish bit wouldn't burn, All bits will burn if you linger too long. I like that bit because it cuts a perfectly flat bottom, the carbide goes completely across the bottom, and is completely plungeable, unlike a hinge mortise bit or straight cutter that will leave little "swirles" and have limited plunge.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Thanks for the clarification, Bruce. Yep, friction is friction and enough of it does have a tendency to heat things up and leave a signature. I can take care of the swirls with a scraper, but if you get a cleaner cut with that type bit, still worth a look on my part.
Regards...
grinder47..
Hi Ya Matt,
After reading everyone's replies, I had an Ahh Haa moment. If I was to build a table, it would not have a single large dished out area. Instead, It would have several small(er) dished out areas or even several long depressed areas. This way the different beads would not get mixed together. The edge of the table could be banded to produce a "bead backer" so if the table was knocked you would not be on the floor.
The router may be the easiest way to achieve these depressions.
Hope all the tips help.
Joe
Is it really saw dust or wood dust?
Good idea, if I needed a bead table that would be more along the lines of what I would be looking for.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
thanks everyone, I can definitely see how that would work - I especially liked the Eagle America site, I hadn't seen that one yet.
Also, I totally agree on the multiple dishes, my wife doesn't, though! So I think it'll be just one dish.
I'm hoping to end up with something similar to this:
http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=1070&f=8608
we went and looked at it at C&B, it's nice, but a bit too deep for where we want to put it.... as you can see, it has a bit of a barrier at the back to keep things from rolling off the back. I'm considering a table wide depression at the front of the table to catch things rolling off the front, need to check with my wife if she'd want that first!
(of course with all the rain we're getting in MA this weekend, my time might be better spent building an Ark)
Thanks again!!
Matt
Not one to espouse hand tools all the time, but why bother with expensive router bits and fancy jigs when you can get an old scorp for $15? No noise, no dust, etc For as few depressions as your making much faster.
scorps, inshaves and spokeshaves? sheesh! I have some research to do... just looking at pictures of those tools gives me the shivers - how difficult are they to use?
ever use a melon baller? Sorry I cant help you with the research part...I can tell you though that a spokeshave is probably out of the question. Best bet is head over to woodcentral and post on the hand tools page. Hold on tight for the sheer number of responses youll get!
Edited 6/25/2006 11:10 pm ET by hdgis1
If you end up deciding to use the router, there are a couple ways you can do it. One has been described to you.
But if you want an actual section of a sphere as your dish, you can make curved router rails out of MDF. Basically you run the router all along the curve, cutting a thin track that's a portion of a circle. Then you rotate the router rails a bit, and do it again. When you go all the way 'round the compass (well, half-way around), you've created a gentle circular depression.
I saw this method on Wood Works on DIY Network, and you can find pictures etc. at diynetwork.com.
Good luck!My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
K,
Lee Valley sells inshaves, adzes and other chair-making stuff (but no convex spokeshave). Clifton and Kuntz sell concave spokeshaves (which will work, I can attest).
I'm sure you'll find many other Internet tool-selling sited that will be able to satisfy your curiosity. Also, try the FWW (this site) index form the magazine page - tons of articles in there.
Lataxe
Gee! I think a half dozen or more little dishes about the size of a small coffee cup would look pretty good, maybe in the shape of a crescent moon just behind the work area. But one must strive to keep the War Dept. Happy at all costs !!!!!!!!! Mine also gives the final OK on toys (tool) budget.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
K,
I wouldn't have been able to suggest this a year ago and would have gone with the router, template, etc; but have you considered using an inshave or a convex spokeshave to hollow out what you need? A large-ish curved carving chisel can also be useful for this kind of thing, as I know from carving a bowl.
If there is not to much wood to carve out, it may be practical and quick to use just a convex spokeshave You could drill here and there to set-depths, as a guide to the spokeshaving. A finish with an RO sander having a soft pad would smooth all out, if a shaved surface looks to rustic.....?
If there is a lot of wood to remove, you can adze it first, using an adze with a very curved blade.
These are chair seat-making techniques of course.
Lataxe, the WW formerly known as a machinetool junkie, now a novice chair and bowl maker too.
At the student wood shop at the University of Michigan, I saw someone do the same thing to a spice cutting board. You know, for grinding the spices with a pestle? He used a Lathe.
Todd
I don't know if this will be an option, but my D in Law makes greeting cards adorned with beads, stones etc and has a pad rather like a router pad. She is able to tip the beads on this and they stay until needed yet are easily returned to their container when required.
I've never tried this, so take with a LARGE grain of salt: How about hanging the router from an eyebolt in the ceiling above your workbench on a rigid arm so you can swing it like a Foacault pendulum over the firmly-clamped workpiece? Then lower the router and take sussessive small cuts to carve out a spherical depression in the workpiece. The longer the arm, the more gradual the depression.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Mike, I like that idea - sounds dangerous, which is of course half of the fun...
Who here will write my obituary when I die from a swinging router accident? ;-)
speaking to my wife it sounds as if we'll have one dish (she doesn't mind if it has a flat bottom) and one "trench" along the back to she can line up beads/stones for making a necklace.
Any bit used for fluting will do well for your trench. Often you can find bargains on "sign-making" bit sets, that might do well for you.
If you're happy with a flat-bottomed bowl, it sounds like you have all the information you need to get this one done. I hope you post pictures when you've got it completed!My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
you sir...have one giant set of stones...
that technique is definately not for the meek...i nearly wet myself just thinking about a 3-1/2 hp router spinning a 1-1/2" core-box bit (sticking out at least 2" so the base doesn't interfere with the angle) at 20,000 rpm all dangling from the rafters on a stick...
i'm going to go lie down now....
Hmmm. Lots of folks seem to think "Mike's Swinging Router Jig" (Patent pending) would be dangerous. I'm not sure I agree -- seems to me that you'd have more control over things than with some freehand work I've done on a table. It's just the router that's moving instead of the workpiecepiece. And if the arm attaching it to the pivot is rigid, the cut is not deep, and with a firm grip on both router handles, I think it would be pretty safe. Of course, no telling unless someone wants to give it a rip! (Not me though, I'm so busy on other projects that it's a project just to keep 'em straight!)
Sounds like the OP has the problem solved tho', without resorting to using a hair-brained idea raised by my own self.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I think the thing that gives me pause with your router-on-a-string is the idea of what happens if the bit bites too hard and the router spins out of your grasp. That bit spinning at 20K so close to your hands and arms, moving in unpredictable directions due to the string and the torque...My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Rather than hanging a router from the ceiling, which among other things would lead to a pretty shallow dish, there is a router jig described on a different forum that looks interesting, though elaborate:
http://tinyurl.com/lnyu6If you don't like tinyurl hiding where you are going, try
http://www.forums.woodnet.net and search for "+marzluf +jig" back to May '06.
"what happens if the bit bites too hard and the router spins out of your grasp"
Hey, John. I appreciate your trepidation. I *kind* of agree, but . . . how many times has your router bit ever grabbed so badly that it spun the router out of your hands? I've never experienced much "kickback" from a router -- more likely to rip a nasty chunk out of the workpiece. All that said, this one is probably only a "thought problem", since such a jig will likely not be made by me (or anyone else in this thread, for that matter). Fun to think about, though. I'm always looking for new ways to tackle problems. Needless to say, most times, the new ways are not an improvement. In most instances, the old ways are the old ways for good reason!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
You are right but then when I use a router and it's not in a table, it's always registered solidly on a surface.
I admit I'm simply leery of the process, and not giving testimony that I've tried it and it was dangerous. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Mike,
I once read an article by Jeremy Broun - a router guru of old, now dead I fear - in which he had constructed the very thing you describe.
It was a cradle with two swinging arms and a platform at the end to hold the router. The arm had various pivot points so that different radii could be routed. As I remember, it was also on turntable so that depressions of the kind we are discussing could be routed.
I also remember thinking. I will NEVER make one of those, as it will take longer to make than whatever I will route with it. :-)
Lataxe, a historian.
Lataxe, Jeremy is a long way from dead. He and I correspond often enough on woodworking matters, and I swear he's not communicating with me via a medium, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
Ooh er! I hope I have not called Jeremy to the attention of the Grim Drawknifer.
Of course, I am old myself and the brain-gremlins play tricks with my memory. I was sure I read an obit in FWW, of all places.
Lataxe, removing faux-pas from his fingers.
Yikes !! I think Edgar Allen Poe would have liked to use that Idea. He did come close with The Pit and the pendulum though. Sorry, You'de have to take that with a grain of salt in the wounds.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Kummel, a router with a cove box bit positioned above the area desired, will make short work of that job
Instead of one depression, it's just as easy to make a series or, row of them, if you first carefully use a guide to position the the router bit
where you need it..
Tell your wife, to take a hint from professional jewelers . They work at a bench which has an open drawer at the bench's front edge. When working with tiny items that tend to 'stray', they reach for a cotton apron (affixed to the drawer) to drape over the 'well' of the drawer and cover their laps as well.
I do lock work using tiny pins and springs and it's frustrating when I loose a tiny part These parts have to stay in order or they'll create a nuisance. I use BOTH the apron AND the indents to catch the errant parts. Steinmetz.
Edited 6/28/2006 5:30 pm ET by Steinmetz
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