Brookbend Outdoor Furniture (www.brookbend.com) has marketed by mail a unique product designed by the late High Point award winner and former Ethan Allen executive Irving Sabo. We have a problem if not solved will prevent selling in stores a marvelous innovation. This is due to moving parts — if not somehow controlled, unattended store customers will destroy this product. I am offering 2 free rocking chairs to the successful problem solver out there.
The Problem – Seen at
www.brookbend.com/mysticriver2.asp our ” Storage Buffet Box ” has a patented “hinge block” allowing end lids to attach and swing open 270 degrees. When at 180 degrees the lids are supported by a 34-in dowel
[dowel seen elsewhere at: http://www.brookbend.com/mysticriver3.asp]. The dowel is stabilized by the tension between the lid and the side of the box. So lifting a lid with the dowel in place drops the dowel to the floor. Unfortuneately, many iterations of this scenario can, and do, take place. When dropped the lid will travel downwards and can crack when hitting the box… customers do not hesitate to lift lids even when a display is sitting on them. We are all customers, actually. Who has not pulled drawers, opened doors, etc on furniture we have no intention to buy? Unfortuneately, in order to sell, the box must be shown with at least 1 lid at 180 degrees. This is a multi-function product.
At home shows I put a screw through the dowel and into the box at both the dowel’s ends. This secured things. But when you’ve got 150 stores this solution can’t be done. I just tried substituting the 34-in dowel with 2 short dowels protruding horizontally out of the box side. The dowels (both wooden and solid brass tried) sagged below 180 degrees so the lid was awkwardly supported.
Any help out there?
Edited 9/16/2009 10:02 am ET by brookbend
Replies
I do not see a way to use the dowel without it falling if the lid is lifted. But, I would use another method to support the lids level to the ground. It looks like you have enough thickness in the sides to have slide out rails that would support the opened lids. The rails would be captive in slots and pull out when support is needed. The extreme outside end of the sliding rails would need a pad the thickness of the distance from the top of the sliding rail to the the level of the case side to provide needed support for the lid. This pad would recess into the side when the rail is retracted. If the lids are intended to be folded flat against the sides the rails would not need to be extended. It would only be necessary for the rails to extend about one half of the lid length to provide the necessary support. All of this would of course require some redesign but it would not seem to be too difficult or expensive.
I could send you a drawing if this is not clear to you.
Bruce
Brookbend,
The simplest solution would be to put an upwardly angled socket, that the support rod would fit into, in the case side a few inches above the bottom edge . The rod would then be supported even if the top were raised. When the rod was removed for storage only a small oval hole would be visible in the side of the case.
You could place a small brass trim plate around the hole on the outside to make the detail a bit fancier. You could also cover the hole with a swinging metal plate similar to the hardware for hiding bed bolts, this would be a nice touch.
The socket itself would probably just be a angled hole drilled into a wood block, on the inside of the cabinet.
I'd rather have money than the chairs. You can reach me at 802-767-9700.
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
John - although not a bad idea for maintaining the rod in place, what happens if a customer picks up the lid then drops it? The drop may only be an inch but I doubt the rod would align up again and would certainly break eventually after repeated episodes. And what if the lid is picked up 6 inches or more - disaster. Some people never even see the support rod. They think the lid hangs in air. Magic, or some kind of mechanical thing inside the box. They do before they think, or look. I also prefer a retractable rail for ease of "storage". Sorry if it seemed like I was concentrating on the rod stability, only.
WD - Good. Seems competitive. The Governor Winthrop desk I'm at now has these rails. I thought of rails very briefly yesterday but I was so disappointed with my earlier experiment, I thought a horizontal support would not work. But if another person believes... then maybe it's good. I'm re-inspired and give you credit. In fact, cross-examining this idea: the Governor desk works because it's hardwood. I experimented with our cedar version box and the wood deformed at the dowel hole with the lid weight (we're selling teak in the stores). Also, the rail is 4" wide, the dowel was 3/4" dia. The key is a very small space between the top of rail and the top case of the box. For every increment of space at the box, the space at the end of the extended rail increases dramatically, ensuring a lid sag effect. The governor space is 3/16" between rail and case. It's been used for 75 years. I see no problem.
re: the pad Can you email me [email protected] with a drawing of this recessed piece. It may or may not be needed.. since (some)sag is acceptable, as it does in our current model. Pad must be wood. Some re-engineering is rq'd due to how the side panels assemble with cross-dowel nuts, but not too bad. Net increase in wood cost of who knows.. $12 for teak.
Why not just use some strong rare earth magnets? I'm trying to think simple here. If there is some good resistence as its lifted on, the folks doing the tugging might leave it alone. This is assuming I understand the problem. I've had some magnets get stuck together and dang near could not get em apart.
I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
George Burns
Storage Buffet Box " has a patented "hinge block" allowing end lids to attach and swing open 270 degrees
I'll bet you all of the beer in your ice bucket photo that your can't prove this claim.
I read this over a few times and am a bit confused.
The large buffet box on the first link, shows the tops extended at 180 degrees and no support rod.?? So do these hinges lock at 180 or rest on the dowel?
If they lock at 180 what do you do to unlock it and swing to 270?
Are the tops at 180 supposed to be used as a serving area or table top? if so what kind of weight do you think they would be used at safely? Kids hanging on it and reaching for something?
Can you clarify before I throw my 2 cents out.
So do these hinges lock at 180 or rest on the dowel?
[see link: http://www.brookbend.com/mysticriver3.asp]Are the tops at 180 supposed to be used as a serving area or table top?
[serving area]if so what kind of weight do you think they would be used at safely?
[150 lb person can site on it]
I will decide by end Sept. So far it's between someone who did not post publicly and the "Rails" guy, above. The hidden commenter suggested a special attachment only the stores would use. So there's no re-engineering. There would be a cost, however, to supply the stores with the device. And other related logistics requiring a fair amount of thinking through. Comes down to money and risk. I'm out of town til Sept 26 and will discuss this with my new partner. Thankyou.Paul Marcus, founder
Brookbend Outdoor Furniture
Edited 9/18/2009 2:07 pm ET by brookbend
And the winner is... Wingdoctor Wingdoctor what's your shipping address -- re 2 cedar rockers. Thanx.All others thanked as well. Came down to the likelihood of success as well as the rails solution being applied to all units made, not just supplying a retrofit for stores. The customer will also have a marginal, if not very good useage from the rails. And running a hi volume business makes sending stores retrofit devices too cumbersome to track.
Home address is:Bruce R Smith
4094 Clabber Road
Columbus, OH 43207
Thank You!!"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Ok. Get you tracking in a day or so.
Paul
Carrier : UPS GROUND
Tracking# : [1Z88934E0356222442]
Paul, we received the cedar chairs yesterday and I assembled them after work. They are very comfortable and will work well on my deck. I am glad I was able to offer a little help and we very much appreciate the gift of the chairs.
I now get to let SWMBO decide how, or if, I will stain the chairs!
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Glad things worked out.Best,
Paul
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