Replies

1. 
   Upraiser | Nov 30, 2003 06:33pm | #1

   I have had the DeWalt for several years and like it, find it easy to set up, adjust for very accurate cuts.

   I have used the Makita and like it as well.  It usually gets a higher rating than Dewalt in the tests, but seems like a close second.

   I like the 12" over the 10" as it seems to me it is easier to see the saw blade relative to the planned cut.

   Curt

2. 
   JMartinsky | Nov 30, 2003 06:42pm | #2

   Dear Gary,

   The DWs seem to have a slight "flex", side to side at full extension that the other saws seem to lack. I would attribute it to DW's use of an "under & over" rail set up. They have abandoned the "u&o" on their new 8 1/2". I would consider the Makita or Hitachi, before the DW.

   Good Luck!

   John

3. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 30, 2003 07:08pm | #3

   Gary,

     I own a Dewalt 12 inch sliding compound mitre saw.  I love how accurite it is and how it's held up to the abuse I've given it while I'm building my house..  It's been outside in the rain and snow on the roof and in the basement..

    I regularly put 12 foot long 4x6's on it and it's always cut amazingly accurite..   I trust it enough to do cabinet work with it.  (do your back a favor and buy the saw stand at the same time)..

     I've used the Mikita a couple of times and it's good too.. frankly either one is a good choice..

4. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 30, 2003 08:10pm | #4

   Gary

      I have the Hitachi and have used the DW and Makita. All are excellent saws. I personally don't think you could error with any of the three. Might throw the newer Bosch in that equation  also.

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   RW | Dec 01, 2003 03:01am | #5

   If those are your two choices, the Makita is the pick. There's no comparison, IMHO, for details and functionality to a trim guy. I sweat for a long time over the Mak vs. the Bosch. So close in the bells and whistles department - both work like champs and were thought through by someone who had to actually make a living with them. I finally settled on the Bosch - taller fence and I liked the clamp better. Give it a look too. I'm not disappointed in the least. Sold the Dewalt the Bosch replaced since I knew I'd never use it again.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

1. 
   JimW | Dec 03, 2003 10:25pm | #15

   I love the new Bosch WW tools.  Of my recent purchases three have been Bosch's, router, 12 miter, and jig saw (the old craftsmen my grandfather gave me finally died).  The only problem I've had so far is with the miter saw. 

   The trigger seems to catch sometimes and the blade will continue to spin for a sec or two after I let go and raise the blade.  Now many will say just to wait to raise the blade till it stops, but those who work in production know that there are a lot more dangerous activities that go on besides raising a spinning miter saw (see my buddy lost four fingers), it's just an annoyance. 

   Also, the blade locking mechanism broke after only a couple of blade changes.  I haven't gotten it fixed cause it kinda works and I've been busy but it's another issue I have. 

   Lastly, and I don't know if this is a Bosch thing or what, but the blade seems to send small cutoffs flying across the shop and job sites.  I have used a 10 in Delta and the 12 in Dewalt quite a bit and never had this problem before.  I also know I'm not the only one cause I whatched Gary Katz send a piece flying into the crowd at the Builders Expo last winter.

   I love Bosch tools, but am probably stay away or at least test drive the miter saws in the future.

   Jim Wilson

   Coventry Woodworking

   p.s. It's not just the slider but the standard one-bevel miter saw as well.

1. 
   Vibart2 | Dec 04, 2003 11:57pm | #17

   My sSears throws chunks of wood to a zero clearance fence helps. But I have found with the Dewalt, Delta & other saws that I have use will do it too. Bottom line leave the blade buried until it stops. You really are not in that much of a hurry are you?

   Be safe rather than sorry.Sucking.......Whoosh.......Yowl........Whoosh.........Thrump.

1. 
   JimW | Dec 05, 2003 03:02am | #18

   You've never worked with a production carpenter have you.  Just imagine having to install 20 jambs, stools and casings in a day.  Needless to say you never wait for the blade to stop.  And thats probably the least dangerous no-no that happen everyday.

   I'm just saying that I've seen pieces lauched to great distances and at great speeds from the Bosch.  I've used Delta's and DeWalt's and have had pieces fly, but not as badly as the Bosch.  It's just an Bosch trait that I personally don't like.

   Oh, and like I said earlier, at a trade show this spring in RI, I watch Gary make a cut that sent a piece speeding into the crowd and landed about 50 ft away.

   JimJim

   Coventry Woodworking

1. 
   Vibart2 | Dec 05, 2003 07:44am | #20

   My Dad was a contractor & custom cabinet maker & finish carpenter not to mention superintending the building of large apartment complexes & schools & restaurants to name a few things he did in his life along with being an electrician & plumber. There wasn't quite the specialization iin the trades back then that there is today. Dad would superintend a big project & then build a custom spec house or custom private home while putting in bids for another big project to superintend. 

   Oh I forgot yes I did work with him & I have to say his were some of the safest well run work sites I've ever worked on. Maybe starting out in the construction trade at 16 & being in the Seabee's Navy construction battalion during WWII & the Korean war has something to do with it.

   I was just talking to my Dad on the phone as I read your post & read it to him. He said that with the rising cost of insurance & hospital bills he would rather have a careful production carpenter than one that was in a hurry because he would lose more than just time if there was an accident.

   You can get just as much done moving at a deliberate pace & not rushing around in a hurry & using the tools properly with out the inevitable accident that will set the production schedule  back & probably cost some money as well as an injury.

   So  Jim  have you been in the trade for over 40 years & have the experiences listed above? The above experiences help you to see the problem from a differen point of view.Sucking.......Whoosh.......Yowl........Whoosh.........Thrump.

2. 
   JimW | Dec 06, 2003 12:28am | #23

   I didn't mean any disrespect.  I'm just saying that raising a blade after letting go of the trigger but before the blade stops is probably the least dangerous "dangerous" act that occurs every day on sites I've worked.

   Personally, I won't do anything I don't feel comfortable with.  I have been an EMT since I was 16 (our town has a state rule that allows us to be certified when were 16), and have seen many accidents before.  Thats why my truck box is full of stop blocks, push sticks and feather boards.

   As far as experience I'm sure most have more than me.  I am only 21 and have only worked as a carpenter for 2 years.  All I am saying is that no one I know waits for the blade to completely stop, that's why they put blade guards on them.

   I agree with your father that there is less and less concern with safety around not only power tools but hand tools (I will admit that my first and only accident was using a Swiss chisel when I first started woodoworking).  I have a lot of respect for people like your father and wish that more people would respect the danger that lies in tools.

   Oh, as a sidenote the pieces that I've had and seen take flight did so before the blade was raised and they were all very small offcuts.Jim

   Coventry Woodworking

3. 
   Vibart2 | Dec 06, 2003 03:55am | #25

   Jim

   Now I'm starting to feel old I have a daughter that is 27 & accept for my back I don't feel much over 30 myself. If we lived to be 100 I would be middle aged now & my Dads 81.

   I know the first time I had a a piece zing off a CMS blade it scared the living daylights out of me. So then I took a piece of scrap & started cutting small pieces & testing to see what I had to do to keep it from happening again & the end results were either keep the blade buried or use a zero clearance fence or clamp both sides down.

   The easiest was was to keep the blade buried until it stopped, even with a saw that has a good brake it seems like it takes quite a while, but in reality it is only seconds & a whole lot less time than recovery from an injury or repairing something (a window)that got broken because a piece of wood was flung at high speed at it.Sucking Whoosh Yowl Whoosh Thrump Puddy Tat up the DC..

2. 
   artw | Dec 05, 2003 05:05am | #19

   I'm looking at the DeWalt 12" sliding compound saw and so far this machine has my interest. I have looked at others, Bosch and Delta but I keep coming back to the DeWalt. I, like you really like the Bosch tools, but like I said, I keep going back to the DeWalt. It seems like anybody who has one, really likes it. Good luck.

   Ken K

1. 
   wrudiger | Dec 05, 2003 08:08am | #21

   I'm a happy DW 12" owner.  Broke my heart when I had to sell my Delta 12" radial arm a number of years ago - after several houses, cabinet jobs, and general abuse it was still accurate and stable (my luthier friend has it now had says it is the most accurate crosscut saw he has ever used).  

   Enough of the memory lane - the DW is a joy and just as stable as the Delta.  I've had it for 3 years now.  It's in a table with long fences & Biesemeyer stop guage and gives me clean accurate cuts every time.

   The poster who talked about the depth (space from the wall) issue in a small shop is right.  I solved this by building deep cabinets & drawers that store all my nails/nuts/bolts/hardware/junk...

   Regardless of the saw you buy, get a Forrest Chopmaster blade for that mirror smooth crosscut.  The blade may be the answer to the wobble some posters mention; I certainly never experience it.  When cutting less than 3" thick I have the dampener stiffener on - don't know for sure but I like to believe that helps as well.

   Good luck - whichever way you go you won't regret it!

1. 
   artw | Dec 05, 2003 04:47pm | #22

   Thanks for the input.

   Ken K

6. 
   alias | Dec 01, 2003 03:35am | #6

   i as well have used the dewalt and have the hitachi. the dewalte fence is a big plus, the 12" blade does deflect with wide and thicker material i tried every concievable readjustment, and solution. the fact is when that big blade heats up it wanders. and i have yet to have that problem with the hitachi. why?? cant tell ya. for sure. it has have something to do with motor, rpm's, blade diameter and heat dipursement. i cant say for sure though. i do like the rails on the dewalt stacked on top of one another . the hitachi is lighter and easier to transport on a portable table. and easier to find a portable table for the hitachi. again the fence and the table and adjustments are better on the dewalt the drive configuration on the hitachi and the makita's(10 or12" for that matter) are better. iv'e been using all four off and on for 6 years now...... my 2¢.......slainte' bear

   "expectations are premeditated resentments"
1. 
   scooter1 | Dec 01, 2003 09:08pm | #7

   My advice is to go to Amazon and read some reviews. Here is a thread on the subject over at Breaktime:

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=36744.31

   Makita and DeWalt came in first and second, respectively. Bosch was a either a love it or hate it deal, with some guys getting some bad units.

   The nice thing about the Makita 10" is that they offer a rebate, a free driver drill, 2 batteries, and a charger until 12/31. A nice $100-150 value.

   I have an Hitachi which after 5 years is plumb worn out (indents are shot), and will probably go with Makita this time around.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   alias | Dec 02, 2003 12:48am | #9

   ditto on the worn out,and i'd buy another maybe try the laser(frankly i give that less than a year). i've thrown every concievable at the hitachi from 10" cherry crown to repeative dadoes. cripples for framing. yatta,yatta,yatta. the thing is a work horse. still runs true and the new ones they have put more thought and better planning into it. have different stops(table's sturdier) and more legiable numbers .(a nuisance before with the busy miter gauge's). ... i wonder about those critique's on amazon i've read for a certain product's and it varies from 1 star, to 4 stars about the same product and give no backround on the critic.......point..... i'll stick to knots, breaktime. the people's ilk goes a long way with me..... i do stop and stare at the 12-10" makita's.......b"expectations are premeditated resentments"

1. 
   scooter1 | Dec 02, 2003 01:21am | #10

   Here and at Breaktime, the consensus is Makita, DeWalt and Hitachi, in no particular order. Haven't heard much about Porter Cable, which surprises me. All three are fine saws and beauty is often in the eye of the beholder. Do check out the Makita rebate, though. It is worth about $100.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

2. 
   ssittler | Dec 06, 2003 12:58am | #24

   riff on winston churchill:

   (lady): "Sir Winston, you are drunk!!!"

   (W. C.):  "Indeed, madame; and you are ugly.  But I shall be sober in the morning."

7. 
   danwolfram | Dec 01, 2003 10:25pm | #8

   The DW 12in slider was one of my first "major" tool purchases.  It has been a great tool.  I bought it about 5/6 years ago to finish a basement.  Since then I have become much more involved in "wood working" and less remodeling.  I have one issue with sliders in general.  In a woodworking shop the tool must be positioned a pretty good distance from the wall.  May sound silly, but in a shop with limited space this is an issue.  Especially when I think of all the times I really needed the full capacity.  Looking back, I would buy the 12in chop saw (not the slider) and save $300+.  Dan in Connecticut

1. 
   fdampier5 | Dec 02, 2003 03:54am | #12

   danwolfram,

     the trouble with a chop saw is that you'd lose the ability to saw really wide     (12")  boards which is much the reason for a slider. If you know you'll never use anything wider than 6 inch, sure get the compound mitre saw and not the slider..

1. 
   scooter1 | Dec 02, 2003 07:57pm | #13

   And, some folks have experience "run out" or blade deflection using the 12" saws. I don't have a 12" saw, and can not speak from first hand experience. But the Makita 10 or 12 is probably in my future this month.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   fdampier5 | Dec 03, 2003 01:24am | #14

   I put my square on cuts up to 12 inches wide and find it too close  to measure.   I suppose it's possible at some compound angle to measure some deflection, but face it,  how many times are you required to cut at 60 degrees while you bevel at 45? 

      

8. 
   billl6 | Dec 02, 2003 02:13am | #11

   Gary,

   I'll weigh in for the Dewalt which I have had for two years. Since I set it up I have not touched the adjustments and it cuts dead on every time. It does take a lot of space fore and aft, and I don't cut lots of big stock continuously with it so can't address the issue of inaccuracy when th blade gets hot. I love it, but haven't used any other.

   Sounds like any of the top three would be a good choice.

   Bill
9. 
   wouldbutcher | Dec 04, 2003 09:03pm | #16

   Hi Gary. I have both the ewalt 708 and I just got the Makita 1013. I like the Makita much better. Also, HD is closing them out and you can get one new in the box for 374 and displays for 250-300. PLUS you get a 14.4 drill from corporate! Nice deal. Check all the HDs in your area

   regards,   Rick

10. 
    mussman | Dec 06, 2003 05:50am | #26

    DON"T BUY IT.  I've been a professional woodworker/builder for 15 years and one thing I've come to realize over the years is that DeWalt Tools, aka Black and Decker, while recently well designed, are poorly made and don't hold up under heavy use nearly as well as other brands.  I've owned Makita, Hitachi, Black and Decker Industrial, Skill, Porter Cable, Milwaukee, Bosch, Freud,...etc.   The only two tools I still own from 15 years ago are a Hitachi Miter Saw and a Makita Reciprocating Saw.  Out of all the above, the worst tools are Porter Cable and DeWalt.  I've had two DeWalt Miter Saws and at least a half dozen of their cordless drills.  With the drills, the batteries are damaged easily, the trigger switches go bad extremely fast, and the chucks need to be replaced much sooner than other cordless drills.  As for the miter saws - the brushes crap out real fast, the switches fail, the aluminum base castings have had pieces break off after droping two or three feet on a job site (lots of weak points in the castings and much thinner than say the Makita bases, probably a lower grade of aluminum too), but worst of all, the fences all eventually get out of whack.  Now if your a weekend woodworker you'll probably be ok, and this is probably why these tools dominate the market, but, I figure for the same price you might as well buy the best tool.  My suggestion is the Makita 10" sliding compound Miter Saw.  You don't need the twelve inch blade unless you like the extra weight and spending more money on new blades - it's also a bit of a freudian thing (blade size, battery voltage, horsepower,....etc.) don't buy into it.  Save yourself the $100 bucks or so - you will be able to cut everything you need with the 10" .  I can and I cut everything.    I do own one good DeWalt - a pre-Black and Decker Radial Arm Saw - it sits in the back of my 1500 sf shop unused, it's place taken by the 10" Makita.   As good of a machine as it is, the smaller, plastic - aluminum sliding miter saw is easier to use, much more accurate, and most importantly not nearly as danagerous. 

1. 
   SBerruezo | Dec 07, 2003 08:24am | #27

   For a contractor, wouldn't it make sense to have the extra 2 inches for cutting 4x materials? I thought the Makita couldn't cut that deep.  Yeah, I know it would in 2 passes, but I for one, don't like having to make any more steps than needed.  Just me.

1. 
   mussman | Dec 08, 2003 12:39am | #28

   The 10" Makita Sliding Miter Saw does cut 4x4's in one pass, however, as I use it only for finer materials I don't use it for such. For framing lumber and decking materials, including 4x4's I use my 12" non-sliding non-compound Hitachi. And that's only if I have alot to do or for decorative work on deck railings, otherwise a circular saw should suffice.