Dial Indicator, base, and aggravation
Finally opened up the dial indicator box, mounted it to a base and went to get familiar with it. I know jointer knives are supposed to be a pain to install, but nobody told me what a pain the indicator can be, LOL. The base seems to be waaaayyyyyy more complicated that it needs to be for this simple operation. Has anyone made their own simple base? Mind sharing the design? I just want this little puppy to stand on the outfeed table and tell me what the height of the knives is.
Oh, in case Mike4244 sees this and think I forgot the glass-and-magnet method, I didn’t! Just didn’t have an appropriate piece of glass last night when the jointer knife bug bit, LOL.
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
I've always had problems with the indicator base. You can buy a flexible arm base that might solve some problems.I use the dial indicator to set the planer knives,glass method won't work here. What I did was cut two hardwood blocks about 1 1/2 " thick x 3"x"3 . Then cut a vee out of the block to sit on top of the cutterhead. Bored a thru hole from the middle of the vee .I use two indicators, one on each wooden holder.The fit is tight enough that I do not need a set screw to hold the rod.
I set each one at opposite ends on the cutterhead. Zero them in, then adjust the knives for height.Using two indicators makes it easier to adjust the knives,don't have to move them .
Forest girl, you could do something similar, hole thru a block ,set indicator post in it.Unless the base is perfectly flat,I would make the block long enough for two indicators. This way any deviation in the bottom of the base won't matter.Make the block long enough so that when you cantilever over the cutterhead the block doesn't tip.Or weight the block down.
A thought just came to me, you can use the magnetic base without the adjusting arms. Have the block sit on a 1/4" steel rod that takes the place of the tool post and adjusting arm.The indicator sits in the bored hole.
mike
Is this what you're after?
http://www.oneway.on.ca/workshop/multi-gauge.htm
the multi-gauge base is the way to go for setting jointer knives. The magnetic base with multi-position arm inserts too many complications. Personally, I've never found the need for using a dial indicator to set the knives, a machinist square and a sharp eye work just fine in my shop, but if I were going to split the thousandths I'd go with that multi-guage base.
"...and a sharp eye...." Therein lies my problem, ROFL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hadn't seen that before, but it's definitely a thought. I picked up some glass tonight on the way home from work, so I'm gonna try the glass and magnet approach.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl....
when you figure this conundrum out, then you will fjind (A norwegian term) that when the new blades come over TDC, they knick the button on the dial indicator, and you gotta start from scratch agin.
the most exquistely simple and fastest methodology for setting jointer blades is one I purloined from setting the blades on my Makita planer. A block of hardwood set on the top is used to set the blades. When the blade comes over TDC, it snags the hardwood block and advances it 1/16" before it lets go. When the blade does than evenly across the blade, it is parallel to the outfeed table, then you go on to yer next blade. On a jointer, once the blade is parallel to the outfeed table, you can raise or lower the table to get a true cut.
I got dial indicators up the jing-jang (a japanese term), magnasets (you'd be suprised how magnetic wood dust is judging from these things, and a cuppla other devices too (I is an unabashed tool junky) but not enuf time or patience to use any other method than the "AHB" (advancing hardwood block) methodology to provide me with alignment which tests out to achieving the same precision as a dial indicator does.
Hope that adds something for ya.
And BTW, before ya get OC over setting yer jointer blades, plunk em down on a flat surface and see what the sharpener has achieved in straightness of edge. If each knive edge ain't straight, yer gonna be fussing for years trying to make it so. I've had crowned knives come back from the sharpener.
Eric
Hi Eric. Confusion: "when the new blades come over TDC, they knick the button on the dial indicator, and you gotta start from scratch agin." The blade pushes the dial indicator rod up and then lets it back down again. Let's say, just to be optimistic <g> that I have all three knives in the cutterhead and they are exactly level with the outfeed table all the way across the knife. Now, I want to drop the table so the knives are .003 above the level of the OF table. So, I drop it a bit, then use the dial indicator. Rotate the cutterhead so the knives tick the DI rod and push it up. If the rod goes up .003 at TDC then I have my magic setting. Where does the "starting over" come in? Or do I want to know, LOL?
I'll double-check the blades for straightness. They look better at a brief glance than the first set I had. When I bought the jointer, I talked the guy into throwing in 2 sets of extra blades, cool! BTW, I use the AHB approach too, but this is practice in learning about the dial indicator. Hopefully, I won't throw it in the trash before all is said and done.
What does OC stand for?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
OC- obsessive compulsive.....or "orange county".... take yer pick.If yer blades are sharp, and yer dial indicator has a rounded nib on it, sooner or later the blades are gonna tick the nib and move the dial indicator, I guess if you lift it up each and every time, you might well avoid this for quite some time. But all it takes is one such little "nick" in the setting process and you are no longer certain of the "zero" setting, nor of yer nib being over TDC, ergo, the start over warning. Even if you don't end up using the dial indicator for setting jointer knives, it is quite useful for checking run-out on drill presses, setting up TS, and other tasks. No way would it end up in my trash.Eric
Jamie, let us see a picture or two of your tables and cutter head details - then we know what options there are.
I use a handplane and a magnet.
Sire, I am at a complete loss as to the meaning of your last transmission.Philip Marcou
Apologies for the brevity. I had to wake up in the middle of the night, and was not thinking clearly.Handplanes are heavy, flat, wide, and ferrous. To line up jointer blades with the outfeed table just put a plane on the outfeed table extending over the blade slot. Place a strong magnet on the plane over the blade. The blade will stick to the plane, and you just tighten the setscrews. Special jigs or dial indicators are not necessary.
I'm using a magnet, as of last night, but with a piece of glass rather than anything metal. Per Mike4244, who got the idea from an unspecified "Mark" and the technique can be seen here. I only had a few minutes to mess around with it, so didn't get the job done yet. But with the magnet (a Grip Tite featherboard in this case) on a piece of glass rather than a piece of metal it's easy to move it out of the way, sliding the glass around on the table, rather than having to horse the magnet and metal off the table.
Funny thing, when I got this jointer, the blades were installed but needed a little tweaking. It was so easy. Beginner's luck, again!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Philip, actually pictures are a possibility, but mainly because one of the instructions in the Jet handbook doesn't make sense. They say "the knives are set at the correct height when the top of the knife is 1/16" above the cutterhead." No matter what part of the knife I measure to (the tip, or the beginning of the bevel) this doesn't look right to me.
(Oh heavens! don't look now, but there's a baseball game on TV. It's springtime! Oh, sorry.....)
I don't want to start a huge treatise here on setting the knives. That's been done before. I was mostly curious about how people use their dial indicators. My basic plan is to (a) get the knives perfectly level with the outfeed table, and straight all the way across and then to (b) lower the outfeed table a couple thou so I can get that Advanced Hardwood Block thing going that Eric describes. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
just replaced my jointer knives for the first time. took me about 1hr with a 6" starrett rule and a feeler guage. I then ducked and started the machine, while holding my breath. went ok. however, on my test cuts, there was some chatter, during the cut. so i fiddled with the outfeed table height, and got better results.
Question, should the outfeed table be dead even with the blades or .001-.003 higher?
Im thinking one of my blades may be higher than the other two. Any input?
thanks joe p
"Question, should the outfeed table be dead even with the blades or .001-.003 higher?" Oooops, methinks you meant "lower"??? After reading info from Richard Jones and a few others, I went to setting my knives a smidge (the aforementioned .001-.003) above the outfeed table. It gives a better cut. I'm using the test where you place a small piece of stock and rotate the cutterhead by hand, watching for a slight movement of the stock as the knife goes by. Have to go back and see what that "slight movement" is supposed to be. 1/16" maybe.
Gotta take the kitty to the vets. I'll look up Richard's thread(s) and post some more info this afternoon.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
To make working with the dial indicator easier. Buy a mushroom shaped tip to replace the stock one. They are up to 1/2"or more in diameter and therefore don't have to be quite so close to top dead center to use. You can get them from Starrett, Mitutoyo, etc. or anyone that sells measuring tools to industry.
And in case it wasn't obvious, rotate the cutter head backward under the indicator tip.
Once you have found TDC clamp a board behind the magnetic base parallel to the blades. Then you can slide from side to side to check the height at the same points
I have a 'generic' (read 'cheap') Dial indicator, one that's readily available anywhere for oh, $19.95 with the magnetic holder. I've been trying to find a flat tip for it but unable to. I looked at Starrett and the other site you mentioned but how can I be sure the threads fit my dial? Also, both sites look pretty pricey!! Anyone out there find a flat bottom tip for a generic dial???
http://www.use-enco.com and http://www.wttool.com have flat tips, button tips etc. The threads should fit all types. I've interchanged cheap tips with Starrett indicator and Starrett tips on my import indicators.
The dial indicator I have at home (bought 20? years ago) was a cheap import too, and it was the standard thread which I believe is 4-40 per inch. At the time I went to a local industrial tool supplier and they ordered one in for a few dollars. There should be several (at least) in your city that sell measuring tools from the big makers. Call around and ask which brands they sell/stock and take your indicator in and they can try/check the thread and then order the tip you want. It should be less than $10. As I said in my earlier post, you should get a mushroom tip. It has a slight dome to the working face and is easier to position. The dead flat tip is very hard to set up flat/parallel to the surface you want to measure when using a magnetic base. If it is in a fixed base or tool that presents the tip to the work the same way each time then the flat is fine.
Ditto to the Enco recommendation. I, too, was on the hunt for a cheap DI but I wanted various tips. The only company I found that had that combination was Enco. Get their paper catalog, lots o' stuff in there, and they carry the gamut from cheapo to Starret (or is it Starett)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
StarrettThe Professional Termite
Sheesh, blew that one, didn't I? :-0forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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