Greetings! My first post on FWW. I’m embarking on a dinning room table project that’s a simplified version of the attached picture and I need some help. My table will be made with solid 4″ wide, 1″ thick walnut boards approx. 78″ long. The top will be 42″ wide when complete. Wood has been dried to 8% moisture content since wood was cut about 25 years ago.
We like the mitered corners in the attached picture, in lieu of a breadboard, but I cannot determine how the manufacturer accounted for dimensional changes due to humidity with the mitered corners. I’m afraid if I build it with mitered corners, it will end up splitting open. We live in central Virginia, so lots of humidity, even with central A/C in the house.
For what it’s worth, I built small end tables, about 24″ x 24″, with mitered corners several years ago and I’ve had no problem with any seams splitting, but that’s a much smaller project compared to a 78″x42″ dinning room table.
I’ve been a woodworker for about 22 years now, have medium skills and a pretty robust workshop built from an old 2,000 sf poultry barn. That said, I’m no where near the expert level demonstrated by many of the contributors to FWW. Thanks for the future help!!
Sincerely,
Dusty77
Replies
Not sure, but I'd say that there is a strong possibility that the table top is not solid wood. It's likely that it's wood veneer over a stable substrate.
About 45 yrs ago my junior high shop class required that we each build a small table with a drawer with a top having mitered corners just as you describe. You would think an industrial arts instructor in a major metropolitan school district would know better that to use that cross grain design feature, but in any event, it pulled apart at the miters rather quickly, as I later learned was to be expected. I made mine from solid chestnut, but I have no idea how dry it was.
I would have the same concerns. I can't think of any way to allow for movement that doesn't involve a gap, quite undesirable.
That said, breadboards also have their drawbacks in that top movement will cause it to be proud or inset. Usually shrinkage is the issue & they can be trimmed back once the table is stabilized.
With boards that narrow, you have to be especially careful the joints are perfectly aligned. It is advisable to alternate faces against the jointer fence to cancel out any error & create complimentary angles.
Definitely glue it up in sections, whatever will fit through your planer.
You might take a look at the other thread that speaks to way to avoid cupping. If this is a trestle table, that kind of takes care of that.
I would be inclined to agree with Eideann and guess that the top is veneer over plywood or MDF.
When I zoom in on the photo it looks like there is a center rail crossing the tabletop. We might be looking at a huge frame and panel assembly.
If you were to build the table as frame and panel in the late summer when the wood is at its maximum expansion (in theory), the panels will shrink in winter, but not blow apart the next season.
You'll have to deal with seasonal gaps depending on where you decide to send the movement. If you do a wide unglued tounge and groove in the center of each panel and pin the panels at the outside edges you'll maintain the long side eating surfaces and send the gaps to the middle of the table.
If you build the table in the dry of winter you'll have to guess how much space to leave.
Personally I’d opt for breadboard ends. Very close to that mitered look and will do more to keep the top flat.
The breadboard end will show expansion and contraction but the table will be indoors and presumably you have heat, AC maybe not but point is your humidity is probably regulated a bit without extremes.
In any event I don’t think the changes in width will be so unsightly to be objectionable. I’ve built them in oak and cedar and just never saw the Width changes as that problematic.
A breadboard end with the tongue exposed versus hidden is a nice design detail and reflects care was taken with the joinery.
If you go this route leave the breadboard ends several inches longer than needed until the very end. You need that horn to have a place to whack the ends off as you close in on the fit.
I’m due to make a new kitchen table this winter and expect to go this route albeit with a lighter colored species.
Mike
Well, res ipsa loquitur as the lawyers say.
They claim to have been building this table for over a decade. They do say 'random width planks' too so I suspect it is, as it says, solid timber. It looks to be cherry.
Quarter-sawn timber is pretty stable, and that frame is, I think, a mitred half-lap so incredibly strong.
I would build it as is, but definitely use quarter-sawn timber. I'd follow the advice to build at peak humidity and would set the boards like a frame and panel, though with tongue and groove design rather than a bevel.
You could, I suppose, cut veneers and lay them on ply if you wanted to save wood, and I would see that as a better option if you can't bear re-doing the project if it fails in future, but as I said at the start, the facts speak for themselves. Pros have been making this table for years.
Thanks to all for your inputs on this project. You've given me a lot to consider and hopefully it will all turn out well. Finishing up a coffee table now, so your suggestions are right on time!
Dusty77
This post is timely for me. I need to build a table for our little cabin. I've had the same worries about seasonal changes. I plan to use Brazilian Cherry flooring for the table top. I'm uncertain how stable it will be through the seasons. I would appreciate any thoughts. I would prefer not to use bread board ends.
Probably the safest option would be to leave the ends of the boards exposed and make sure you don't try to trap the top in the way you attach it. What style of table are you planning to build?
I don't have a style in mind. I tend to keep things simple. I've been puzzling over how to attach the top. The table will be about 34" by 60" with the boards running lengthwise.
On a traditional four-legged table with aprons, wooden buttons (L-shaped pieces screwed to the underside of the top) or metal table top clips fit into grooves cut on the inside of the aprons.
On a trestle table the top is secured with screws to the rails at the tops of the legs. The holes in the rails are elongated to allow the top to move. Commonly you would use round head screws and flat washers in counterbored slots to attach the top.
I can think of more complicated options as well but those are straightforward.
Thanks Dave. I normally use metal clips on small table tops. I wasn't sure how they would work with a larger top. Although through this discussion I see a simple solution. I'll add a couple of cross pieces between the aprons with clips attached. This discussion and a 2nd cup of coffee cleared my brain.
Coffee always helps! :)
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