Hi Everyone,
I’ve used an independence dovetail saw and fell in love with it….I was saving up for it when an old Henry Disston back saw landed on my bench from a relative. it’s in need of a mild cleaning and tune up….I read that I can actually file the teeth off and start over and make rip teeth for dovetails…..my only concern on this particular saw is that the teeth end of the blade seems to be longer then the Heavy steel backing on top….what I mean is that the blade seems bent on the bottom, but can be easily straightened with mild finger pressure. The heavy backing is straight. Is there a way I can undo this?!? I was contemplating clamping the teeth end to a flat piece of steel and placing in the oven for a couple of hours or something. Thanks for any and all responses.
Ps. This is an interesting backsaw, I’ve never seen one that tapered front to back. (depth of the blade) I’m thinking it is a dovetail saw, any other opinions?!?
Replies
No expert... I believe the taper in the blade was so when one reached the end of the line on the "front" side, the "back" side would still be short of the end of the line (assuming, of course, that one kept the top of the saw horizontal ;-) )
Yes, the teeth can be filed off and changed from cc to rip or tpi changed. Natually one can only do that so many times, LOL.
I can't help you with your other question, but I don't quite understand it, either.
Ed,
Maybe I made it more difficult than it needs to be.....The blade is bent slightly, not kinked....I can bend it back with finger pressure, but it just springs back. not sure if it can be fixed, or how..... Thanks
A buckled blade on a backsaw can be straightened by gently tapping the 'back' with a light hammer. You will need to experiment and be prepared to make it far worse at some point.
Start by tapping the end of the 'back' toward the handle -- just one middling tap and see what effect that has. If that doesn't work then tap the top of the back at a point about the centre of the bend in the blade.
The blade is not actually fixed in the back -- just clamping pressure only -- so what you are doing is moving the blade slightly within the back.
IanDG
apparently noone understands the difference between bent and buckled. Your saw sharpener will take care of this "deflection" when he sharpens the saw. It won't be a problem. Anyone here ever bend something that didn't kink or buckle?? Seems funny that the two of us are the only ones that have!!!
Thank you to you all......now.......can anyone recommend a place that I can send this saw to have the bend worked out and it sharpened to a rip cut? Thanks
Saw sharpener par excellence is Tom Law 62 West Water Street, Smithsburg, MD 21783 PH (301)824-5223.
I don't believe Tom Law is sharpening saws anymore. This saw sharpener is highly recommended:
http://www.cookessharpening.com
He sharpened a bunch of mine just over a year ago. I'm sorry to hear he's now stopped. Are you sure he has?
Yes, I am sure. Tom sells saws but no longer sharpens them. Scroll down on the attached page which offers Tom's video for sale and confirms he is out of the sharpening business:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2nwp6/saw/saws.htm
Thanks. I was just looking to make sure as he did several saws for me reasonably recently. Sorry to hear it.
TWOODWARD,
Ever try to use a bent saw without straightening it out? Bent, buckled, kinked, if the back of the saw is straight, and the blade isn't, it will need to be straightened. He can try to do it, or let the sharpener try.
Reagrds,
Ray
And your point is? I answered the question he asked. everyone else decided that he didn't know what he was talking about and decided for themselves that it is kinked/ buckled. I fortunately understand that bent the way he described it didn't mean buckled or kinked as everyone else suggested. It seems that the problem was that I read what he wrote and could answer his question. Yes, I have a saw that is bent , not kinked or buckled, that doesn't saw well at all. It doesn't need to be trashed or beat on with a hammer to fix it though. I think if everyone that posted would go back and read the initial post they would see that it was only slightly bent and could be straightened with only minor pressure with his fingers. You try to straighten your buckled, kinked saw with your fingers and let me know how well that works!!!!
TWOODWARD,
Easy boy!
In my experience, once a backsaw is bent, wavy, curved, bowed, kinked, buckled or otherwise not straight, mere hand pressure will not correct the problem. As I indicated, my experience has been that the back is holding the blade in its new unstraight configuration, and will need to be manipulated to correct the problem.
Handsaws may sometimes be restraightened by careful bending in opposite direction to the bend. Never been able to do this with a backsaw, myself. Your mileage may vary.
I didn't suggest trashing or beating on the saw, but careful tapping on the back (stiffening rib) to relieve the tension causing the blade to bow/bend/curve.
As an aside, I've heard the term "kinked" used indiscriminately all my life by local craftsmen to refer to any sawblade that is not "straight". Maybe because that's the sound you hear when you kink a handsaw?
Edit: I went back and reread the original post. It seems to me that if the problem was easily fixed by straightening by hand pressure, then the poster wouldn't have posted the question to begin with, as he said he could easily straighten the blade. However, then goes on to ask how to fix the problem...
Regards,
Ray
Edited 7/12/2005 1:44 pm ET by joinerswork
Ray.. I agree with you for what that is worth.. However I would try to flatten the blade between blocks of softwood (in a vice) getting as close to the stiffener as possible without touching it.. Gentle pressure from the vice.. Then tap along the stiffeners as you stated..
Only did it on one good saw I had and seemed to work.
It doesn't need to be .... beat on with a hammer to fix it though.
So how would you fix it then? -- apart from saying 'send it to a saw doctor', [who will do exactly as I described], you were careful to offer no suggestion of your own, I notice.
Perhaps that's because tapping the back with a light hammer is the recognised way of straightening the blade within the back?
IanDG
The way I read it, just the bottom part of the blade id bent over. I don't think it's bent from tip to handle like this if you were looking down on it from the top ) ... The top of the parenthesis being the tip and the bottom being where the handle mounts.
I think if you are looking down from the top you would see the teeth sticking out to the left or right more, but it would be straight until about halfway down the blade from the back to the teeth.
No, I wouldn't tap the back with a hammer to fix that bend. I'd probably be more inclined to gently bend it straight.
TWOODWARD,
If you read post #3, the poster says he has gently bent the blade til it's straight, but it just springs back. Now what?
Cheers,
Ray
My sufggestion would be to reread the post properly and rethink your fix. Just because you think you are right doesn't mean you are.
When our tutor showed the correct way to straighten the blade on a backsaw, he started by tapping the back with a hammer to deliberately induce an 'S' curve along the teeth of the saw. He then straightened it back out again by tapping the end of the back toward the handle.
The blade is always straight where it goes into the back -- the curve is progressive toward the teeth -- just as the problem was described here --- and tapping the back will fix it.
Your solution is to bend it straight -- perhaps you will tell us precisely how you will achieve that?
IanDG
Ian,
Great web site!
Relax on the not straight saw though-the thing is where and how should it be attended to with a striking tool....saw doctors are very good at this (tensioning). That's why I suggested initially that a visit to a saw doctor was in order.
A saw doctor will fix it -- for a price -- but IMO it's nicer to know how to do it yourself. It certainly isn't difficult.
IanDG
Ok, you win. Tell you what I'm going to do (seriously, not sarcasticly) I have a saw that has a slightly bent blade. It's an old disston, but barely used and never been sharpened (as far as I can tell by the thickness of the blade, 1880ish saw) In any case it won't cut because of the bend. I'm gonna try the tapping with a hammer thing at some point this week and report back here how it works! Sorry aboout the nast post, I was all revved up last night. I'll let you know how it works. I'll try to do it tonight!
The blade must be free to move within the back. If a sharp rap on the end of the back toward the handle has no effect then it's WD40 time and a hairdryer on the back to warm it up.
As long as the back itself isn't bent -- in which case the saw is a write-off -- it will work for any blade that has a curve, or curves.
IanDG
For the cost of a few tools and Tom Law's video, "Hand Saw Sharpening," you can become proficient in sharpening hand saws with a few hours of practice.
It's not very difficult, but good lighting - and if you're my age, magnification - make a tremendous difference.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask youself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Gb,
Unless you have an overwhelming desire to learn how to sharpen etc that saw I reckon you should just take it to a pro, preferably one who is having a good day, and ask him to sort it for you.
The smaller the teeth the greater the pain,which is also related to age and eyesight.
The web site referred to by another poster is very good and will help you decide.
And there is another good one at http://www.vintagesaws.com//library/primer/sharp.html
Edited 7/11/2005 2:20 am ET by Philip Marcou
GB,
I'll echo what Ian said, about straightening. The blade likely got its kink from being jammed in a cut, and that moved the blade slightly within the stiffening back. Try clamping first one end, then the other, of the blade in a vise, and tapping on the back. Strictly trial and error.
I believe the taper in the width of the blade occurs when the blade is jointed prior to sharpening, and the filer joints mostly the teeth that are the dullest-the ones from the center of the blade forward. I've seen handsaws that had been filed til they were hollowed out in the center of the blade, the filer hadn't bothered to joint at all, just sharpened the teeth that were the dullest.
I've changed the teeth on dovetail saw from crosscut to rip, without retoothing, it's mostly a matter of eliminating the "fleam" that the crosscut teeth have, by filing straight across. You can then go over the teeth again,to change the angle of attack of each tooth by making the front face nearer to vertical, or wait and gradually change as you refile the teeth as they dull.
Regards,
Ray
Check out this website. There is a lot to learn. Also, I file my own saws and rip teeth are fairly simple. Once you learn how, it takes a whole lot less time to sharpen a saw than to take someplace and then go pick it up. As woodworkers, we sharpen our plane blades, chisels, axes, lathe tools, etc: Who says we can't learn to sharpen saws?
http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/
"who says we can't learn to sharpen our saws?"
Nobody-I believe. And there are plenty of web sites, books etc so we can know how to do it too.
But backsaws with 3dozen x cut teeth per inch, plus a kink or two are not to be tinkered with by the first timer- it just is not fun.Forgive me.
Furthermore, all my classic Spear and Jackson items are destined for a final visit to the saw doctor, should I find a trusted one in these parts, then a final polish and preserve, before they take up their final resting place , as I have been converted to the Pull rather than the push....
36 TPI ?-backsaw?
I knew it -should have said 10dozen....:-D
"backsaws with 3dozen x cut teeth per inch, plus a kink or two are not to be tinkered with by the first timer"
Philip,
I think a used (inexpensive) backsaw is a great way to learn saw sharpening. Sure, the teeth are small - 36 per inch may be overstating the case - but with a shop-made or purchased saw vise, good lighting, a little magnification for the optically challenged (like me), and a few inexpensive tools, almost anyone can learn to do it.
How else does one learn new skills, other than by trying something new and being willing to do it wrong the first few times? I was an unsupervised newbie when I learned, and even I eventually got it right.
I find it easier to learn to sharpen rip teeth than cross-cut teeth, so a dovetail or gent's saw obtained from a yard sale (or a cheapie import) seems like a good and cost-effective learning device.
My two cents,
-Jazzdogg-
The most significant obstacles we find in our paths are usually self-imposed; I'd rather believe I am capable of learning something new, and keep trying until I get it right, than sit on the sidelines accomplishing nothing because I lack a willingness to risk failure: whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right. - Paul Dershem
Edited 7/15/2005 12:41 pm ET by jazzdogg
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