Replies

1. 
   Steinmetz | Feb 04, 2004 11:21pm | #1

   Do you mean Muntins and Mullions?

   If so, look for router bits used for 'Sticking' door work  Stein.

1. 
   creations | Feb 05, 2004 10:59pm | #8

   Yes what I am referring to is muntin and mullion. Thanks

   Bob

1. 
   Steinmetz | Feb 05, 2004 11:14pm | #11

   Rkelm, The 'sticking cutters' I alluded to are what Dusty called Stile and Rail cutters .

   They will prepare the mullion's exterior edges and a dado cutter will cut out the reveal for the glass.  Stein.

   Edited 2/5/2004 3:16:14 PM ET by steinmetz

2. 
   notDusty | Feb 04, 2004 11:49pm | #2

                     Rkelm ,

     The same cutters that create the stile and rail joint are used for creating the lites in the doors. The back side can be cut back by router or table saw the same as for the rest of the frame , to accept the glass if so .

                           hope this helps                   dusty

          

3. 
   billsams | Feb 05, 2004 03:23am | #3

   Wood tech enterprises at http://www.woodtechtooling.com/ offers the "Lonnie Bird divided light set" for the cheapest I've seen anywhere, $109.00

   I haven't used it as yet, just ordered it the other day myself, should be winding it's way via UPS.

   This set offers what others set do not, "true" mortise and tenon on the muntins and mullions.

   Bill

1. 
   creations | Feb 05, 2004 11:01pm | #9

   I have seen some cabinet doors where the glass panels are held in by a rubber strip set in a groove.  Does the set you are referring to also cut this groove.

   Bob

1. 
   billsams | Feb 06, 2004 03:05am | #12

   No,  the "lonnie bird divided light set" does not cut a groove for a rubber retaining strip. It cuts a dado for the glass to set and then an applied stop molding on the inside.

   I thought the "sommerfield set" cut the  groove  you are referring to but obviously not since others above posted it did not.   Is that what you are looking for?

   Bill

1. 
   creations | Feb 06, 2004 04:16am | #13

   I took a look at the sommerfeld site http://sommerfeldtools.com/products.asp?ID=164, more specifically at their glass panel door set #855.803.11.  According to the diagrams that they show this set does include a slot cutter for installation of a rubber panel retainer. 

   I guess that this would work fine for a door that has a single panel of glass however, I am looking more for producing doors with divided lights.  Whether it would be the CMT Lonnie Bird set or the Freud set, how does one keep the glass panels in place?

   Thanks in advance.

   Bob

1. 
   billsams | Feb 06, 2004 02:25pm | #14

   Rkelm,

   Glass on true divided light doors is held by a matched molding that you make, (typically with the same bits) then mitered and braded into the mullions and muntins.

   The mullions and muntins need to be minimum of 7/8" wide, retaining enough wood after the dado's are cut to have enough stock to brad into. Your stop molding (to be safe) should be milled on stock 3 times the actual finished width, then rip on the tablesaw. (ie if your finished stock will be 1/2" x 1/2" then rout or shape on stock that is at least 1-1/2" x 1/2"") This will also help avoid chatter.

   "Lonnie's" set has instructions included, others should as well. This set also is not your typical cope and stick pattern, this cope cutter cuts only the face side of the stock allowing full integral tenons on the rails of the main frame.

   I assume we are talking cabinet doors and not interior passage doors?

   Bill

2. 
   creations | Feb 06, 2004 08:19pm | #15

   Thanks for the detailed info.  and yes I am talking about cabinet doors. 

   A few final questions, where the muntins and mullions intersect, how is this "lap" joint cut?  Is this done with one of the bits provided in Lonnie's set?  Is the joint where the profile of the rails/stiles meet the muntins and mullions cut the same way?

   Bob

3. 
   billsams | Feb 07, 2004 02:57am | #16

   Bob,

   You're welcome. To answer your second question first, Yes all the joints are cut the same way........except this is NOT a lap joint.

   This is what I meant by not being your typical rail and stile/cope and stick cutters. With these you are cutting full integral tenons on the frame rails to join with the frame stiles.

   You are also cutting full tenons for the mullions and muntins to fit into the side frames

   AND you are cutting short tenons for the mullions(vertical pcs) to fit into the muntins (hortizontal pcs)

   All mortises are cut by mortise machine or drill press or by hand. The mortise on the muntins go all the way through (7/8') stock, the short tenon on the mullions go halfway each side.

   So first you mortise, then you cut your tenon, (neither with these bits)... then use the "set" to cut the cope under your tenon, then cut the sticking, then the dado for the glass. It's not as complicated as it may sound, visual is always good in these type of descriptions.

   Lonnie had a article in FWW a while back on a corner cupboard, explaining this set. Also if you can get your hands on a copy of his book "Shaping Wood" it has a full description. Let me know if you need more info.

   Bill

4. 
   creations | Feb 07, 2004 07:56pm | #17

   Thanks Bill for the information.   Bob

4. 
   charlesm | Feb 05, 2004 04:51pm | #4

   We offer a set specifically for traditional divided lite cabinet doors. The item number is 99-270. Just do a Google search for Freud 99-270. If you need more info on it I can Email it to you.

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

1. 
   CJohn | Feb 05, 2004 05:50pm | #5

   Charles, I have used your cutter set and what a sweet rig it is. I recently made a ten panel door with it out of hard maple and the finish it produced was smooth. Very little sanding required. Thanks for great products!

1. 
   charlesm | Feb 05, 2004 06:07pm | #6

   CJohn,

   Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad to hear the set worked well for you.Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

2. 
   creations | Feb 05, 2004 10:57pm | #7

   Last year I had ordered the Freud set and after waiting some 8 months cancelled the order as Freud could not deliver (always on back order).

   Bob

1. 
   charlesm | Feb 05, 2004 11:10pm | #10

   Bob,

   I'm not in the sales department so I can't be absolutely sure, but I'm not aware of any difficulties shipping the 99-270 sets. Sorry for the problem you had getting them. I do know that we have hundreds in stock right now.

   Neither the Freud set nor the Sommerfeld set for divided lite cut a groove for the plastic bead.Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

2. 
   Fingrs | Apr 01, 2004 06:45am | #18

   If you are still out there, Rkelm, who did you order the Freud router set from?  I was told by Woodworker's Supply that the item was discontinued in 1997...but was able to order it successfully from Amazon.  There may be a miscommunication out there. 

1. 
   creations | Apr 04, 2004 03:45am | #19

   Sorry for the late reply.  I had ordered the set directly through a Freud representative at a wood show here in Ottawa.  This representative was attending the show via a tool supply store and the order was subsequently to be picked up at this store.  Although the store was very helpful in contacting Freud to chase after the order, the final word after some 6 months was that it was still on back order with no word as to when it would be available. 

   I have as of yet not purchased a set as I am in the process of building a Queen Anne Lowboy.  I may try to see if CMT will have a set available or if Freud has resolved there problems.

   Thanks.  Bob

1. 
   Fingrs | Apr 04, 2004 05:30pm | #20

   Hi, Bob.  In case you're still interested, I ordered the Freud set from Amazon, and expect to get it tomorrow.  Charles from Freud provided a reprint from a woodworking magazine article about using the set, which I can forward to you if you want.  Regards,

   Lofton

2. 
   creations | Apr 06, 2004 01:48am | #21

   Yes, I would very much be interested in getting the article.

   Thanks.  Bob

3. 
   creations | Apr 14, 2004 01:57am | #22

   Hello Lofton:

   Some time back I responded back that I would be interested in having you provide me with a copy of the freud article on using the divided light set.  I am not sure if you actually received my response or not.

   Thanks.  Bob

4. 
   Fingrs | Apr 15, 2004 06:21am | #25

   Hi, Bob.  Sorry for the slow response to your note.  If you reply to my eMail from a couple of days ago I will send you the article.  I had thought if I sent myself a copy of the eMail to you I could do a "reply to all" and get it to you, but Prospero is far too clever!  Or Charles can send it.  It's probably not OK to post it here for copyright reasons, etc. 

   Regarding the post concerning difficulty using the set, I'll be giving it a go on Friday and will post my opinion about how easy or hard it is to use.  My suspicion is that it will take a little practice to make proficient use of the set (based on the article), but that is part of the learning curve we have to invest.  Frankly, I cannot see another way to do the job unless the previous author (who is looking for a recipient for his set) can suggest otherwise. 

   Either reply to my eMail or Send me another and I'll reply with the article.

   Lofton

5. 
   creations | Apr 17, 2004 07:26pm | #30

   Lofton:

   Thanks for the response.  You can either send me the message with attachment via this forum or send it to [email protected].

   Looking forward to reading the article.

   Bob

3. 
   Sancho | Apr 14, 2004 05:11pm | #23

   That 99-270 set is a royal pain to use. I ended up giving my set away to a bud and let him try to find a sucker to use it. No offense but theres got to be a easier way.

   Im considering trying the miniture panel set , the mullions maybe a little large but  Im going to try it. 

   Darkworksite4:

   El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera

1. 
   charlesm | Apr 14, 2004 06:45pm | #24

   Ron,

   Sorry to hear you found the bits difficult to use. There are certainly easier ways to make glass doors but I'm not aware of any that produce a true divided lite door with the strength of mortise and tenon joinery.Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

1. 
   Fingrs | Apr 15, 2004 06:30am | #26

   Hi, Charles,

   Perhaps you can help:  the 99-270 I bought will be used to create divided lite doors for one cabinet only;  the other cabinets will have flat panel doors.  I'd like to match the profile the 99-270 cuts on the rail or stile for the flat panel doors, but would like a full dado to hold the panels.  Which bit gives the same profile as the 99-270?  I hope this makes sense...

   Thanks! 

   Lofton 

1. 
   charlesm | Apr 15, 2004 06:58pm | #27

   Lofton,

   The profile of the 99-270 is very narrow with a bead radius of 1/8" to allow for narrow muntins. The closest standard stile and rail profile we offer is the 99-263 which has a bead like the 99-270 but with a 9/32" radius. It would be a matter of taste as to whether these would look appropriate together.Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

2. 
   Fingrs | Apr 15, 2004 07:44pm | #28

   Thank you, Charles.  I'll investigate and see how this might look.

2. 
   Sancho | Apr 17, 2004 02:18am | #29

   Yea Charles I think its me more than the bits. Meaning I dont have the patence to fool around adj things I just like making wood chips :>) 

   Darkworksite4:

   El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera