I’ve been thinking of finally starting on my room door replacement project. I read the 3 fine woodworking articles on the topic. And it’s a bit scary but I’d be willing to give it a shot.
The problem is – I’m afraid of calculating of what the lumber will cost me. To get 1-3/8″ I’d need to start with 8/4 rough, which looks like will cost 10CAD/bf whether it’s clear pine or a hardwood.
For those who have made a door – how does it compare in cost with one from the store? Is the rough wood at least cheaper than the entire door from the store? What wood did you use? I might build them myself anyway as a learning experience, but it could be a lot of extra cost for 8 doors.
Replies
I can't make a door for what one costs at the l7mberyard. But I can make a door in more styles, sizes, and woods than a stock unit. Special order doors get very pricey.
One of the reason stock doors are cheaper is, they do not use clear stock all the way through. Mostly, anyway. They use common wood with a thick is veneer on the show faces, rather than sold 8/4 stock. Cheap ones, of course, don't have wood inside at all.
Doors are difficult to make cheaper than buy commercially , but easy to make better, given the low quality of Big Box Stores materials for the most part.
You need to factor in not only the cost of the wood, but any additional tooling, router/shaper bits, you may need as well.
If you do undertake this project, and I encourage you to, remember 8/4 takes a looong time to acclimate so buy it well in advance, I recommend at least 4 weeks preferably more depending on the humidity fluctuations in your area. Doors are one area you want stable straight boards. If you can't buy qtr sawn wood then at least try to select boards that have a high degree of straight grain.
As the others have said - it'll cost you more to make than to buy. But also, you can make better.
I know we've all been taught that the only value is cash value but it just ain't so. Pecksniffing accountants should be relegated to their musty counting houses, where they may mutter about the groats and shekels with the ghosts of Marley & Scrooge!
What other value do you get when you make your own door? Not just the door (which is better than those store-bought things) but the pleasure of making it; the increased level in your skills; some tooling that will enable other woodworking adventures later on; a meaningful style of life that is more than just being a dumb consumer of landfill dross. Yes!
All these things will have the door as their emblem, which will prompt you to recall those other values you acquired and then bask happily in their pleasurable glow, every time you go through the door, physically and metaphysically.
Lataxe, doing the above with any number of items aboot the hoose.
“Pecksniffing accountants should be relegated to their musty counting houses, where they may mutter about the groats and shekels with the ghosts of Marley & Scrooge!” Love the statement! ... From a RETIRED pecksniffing accountant enjoying life in my wood shop daily. Tomorrow morning I shall share your wonderful insight with my former partners and associates at their counting house.
Seriously, 2 things... your comment is dead on and will bring a daily chuckle to me for many weeks to come.
And now I must add making a sign to hang in my shop to my project list, with your permission. I promise full attribution.
"Old Pecksniffer's Workshop it is, then, it seems!"
For me, I agree as usual with @Lat_Axe. The real value here is the additional skills gained.
Additional skills, and, every time you walk through the door, you think "I built that." There is a lot of value in that.
The biggest issue I have now is I very well may move out of the SF Bay Area. My current home is nice and comfortable but I would really like more space for my woodworking and my wife would like more space for her art working hobby. I don't mind making furniture but kitchen cabinets and doors stay with the home. The thought of putting all that energy and effort into doors and kitchen cabinets only to have the next owner rip it all out makes me hesitant to invest the time and money. If I knew we weren't moving, there are lots of things I would spend money without worrying about the return on investment.
I've made a few doors and I'd say even w/o counting my time it was more expensive. I'm happy with the results and I'm glad I did it, but it is not a way to save money. The door company buys lumber in boxcar volumes and has most of the process automated... tough to compete with cost-wise. If you decide to go frame & panel the router bits will set you back $200 easy.
our local custom door dealer has tried several times to make a unique door from scratch and there is always a problem with warpage after assembly. It seems that the drying process, moisture content, grain and clarity of the wood makes a difference. Good Luck
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that you can build a better door than you can buy. Modern frame and panel doors are made with laminated stock with facing veneers. That type of assembly tends to mitigate warpage, while you would likely be working with solid stock that is difficult to have stay straight in the lengths needed for a door.
I do agree that it would be an interesting dive into different techniques, tooling and methodology. But sometimes it's the wiser choice to let others do what they do best while you might better spend your time building a custom piece of furniture that will last for generations. Just my $0.02.
Zolton
With an unscientific measurement I would say at least 10-15 percent of the big box store doors that I install have to be returned for one problem or another. The key to making a good door is stock selection and planning ahead you can't take Lumber right from the yard and start Milling it for a door has to acclimate to your conditions and that takes time for 8/4 wood, choose straight grain preferably quarter sawn wood for the rails and Stiles and I guarantee you I Can Build a Better Door than any big box store Commercial Door.
This is the nub of it.
Making a full size door that fits properly and is wind-free (and stays that way) requires:
1) Considerable skill and experience. This isn't the same as making a hallway table or bookcase. Requires tight tolerances to an existing aperture, precise joinery, sound technique. Slight deviations from square and true can be far more obvious than a furniture piece (especially as telescoped over several feet), and sloppy joinery will see the thing fail quickly in use.
2) Equipment able to mill, and cut joinery, on long, fairly thick stock; and space to do this in. Making in a hobbyist shop might be possible, but is often far from ideal, both in terms of cutting large M&T joints and just assembling a ~7' x ~3' object and making sure it's flat.
3) Clean, straight-grained stock (ideally quartersawn as you say), which is pricier than just looking at a generic board-foot price list, whether because of paying for specially selected material, or wastage as prime cuts are taken from larger boards
While the average quality of a mass-produced door may not be great, it's easy enough to exchange or obtain a refund for a defective product. A door custom-made by a joinery workshop will (if they aren't chancers) be of a higher quality, but expensive due to paying for points 1 - 3 above.
And investing in those three things oneself is a great thing to do, but of all of them, number 3 is probably the cheapest in the greater scheme of things, and the easiest too.
Of course, it's possible, especially for interior doors, to compromise a bit on quality of build or opt for easier construction (eg unframed, ledged & braced), and if in one's own home the satisfaction of having a homemade piece might outweigh the slight gap where the thing is in twist, but on the whole, it's quite an undertaking.
Thanks everyone. That all makes a lot of sense.
I guess I'll look to see if I can get standard-size doors for most of what I need, and maybe make a custom one or two that are weird sizes.
I don't mind the investment of my time and tooling. But a full set of doors for a house is almost a production line - that doesn't make me excited.
Sort of like I wouldn't make my own hardwood flooring even though I probably could :)
The avoidance of our beloved hobby becoming too much like work than play (becoming a production line) is an understandable attitude with which I fully sympathise. I've never made a kitchen for that reason - far too many identical cabinets of mostly utilitarian woodworking.
Doors, though ......
The last house I lived in had very boring and rather cheap doors when we bought it, They were those big blanks of sapele veneer on very thin plywood with a cardboard honeycomb inside. I took to making replacements, one at a time. They were all different in design and in the timbers used.
Many modern interior designers (and their customers) would turn their noses up at such a mishmash of doors within a single house. They have a certain liking for "themes" aka a boring sameness. It seems part of a general aesthetic for rooms with plain white walls and large glass inserts, looking like a cross between a loon-bin and the quarantine room of a hospital.
Well, that's wot I fink. :-)
Part of those extra values from woodworking, above the bottom-line type, is the satisfaction gained from living in spaces at least partly defined by ourselves. We woodworkers use the furniture, which may extend to the carpentry in the form of doors, wainscoting, skirting and windowsills as well as the purely decorative items such as picture frames. (I just finished three large windowsills for our new house).
It makes our houses truly ours, rather than just another rabbit hutch like all the others, filled with striving bunny consumers living identical lives surrounded by mundane objects from the advertising screens rather than from their own hands.
Lataxe
Agree totally, Lataxe...with the exception of the observation re kitchens. And this is precisely for the reasons you articulate regarding the rest of the house.
Who says that kitchens need to be full of homogeneous boxes fitted to the walls? It's a fairly modern conceit. Freestanding furniture, if thoughtfully designed and appointed, can provide just as much utility along with a great deal more flair. And even if opting for built-in cabinetry, the flexibility of not having to conform the 5 basic catalogue options to the available space, but rather customise completely, means that the shackles can be broken even then, providing a technical and creative challenge to a woodworker and coming up with some gorgeous results (see Nancy Hiller's book, for examples).
Of course, whether such a kitchen is desirable depends on circumstance: if a "forever home", then anythings goes; but if one eye is constantly on resale value of the property, then perhaps the cookie cutter (ha) kitchen in "fresh, contemporary" style is a necessity...but then the same can be said for doors and trim anyway. But that being said, there are certainly people for whom individual, custom, or even quirky, design in a home is desirable, and who will pay a premium for it.
You make a good point about the benefits and value of non-standard kitchens. In fact, I lived the first half of my life in houses with kitchens of the old-fashioned kind - various free-standing cabinets and other kitchen things. One such included an old-fashioned fireplace range with various cast-iron accoutrements festooning the hearth.
But part of the attraction of modern row-of-cabinet style kitchens is their very convenient arrangements of the storage space, not to mention their often efficient use of sometimes limited kitchen volume.
Those old fashioned kitchens I knew in my youth were not always easy to use, with the free-standers sometimes taking up an inordinate amount of wall and floor space for not much storage room. They were often awkward to install together in smaller kitchens without the door of one banging on the corner of another, etc..
As to the management of the old-fashioned cast-iron range and hearth - well, they were good enough once lit and going; and with the cook in constant attendance to ensure nothing burnt or caught fire!
But yes, you're right, really. If I had the money for the timber and wasn't in the last quarter of my life (maybe the last year - we can never know at my age) I might take out the kitchen stuff we inherited with the move of house and install bespoke. ....
I just get the feeling that I'd be doing nothing else until I died. :-) Doors are quite quick to make and hang, once you've got the basics. Kitchens seem a rather larger and more complex task.
Lataxe
I replaced all the interior doors in a house I owned many years ago. I didn't want preying, because they had installed the floors around the trim and jambs, rather than under them. So I bought slabs, and then mortise all the hinges, strike plates, etc to match the existing. That was a chore in itself. Building the whole door first would have been . . . more.
We all have to ask ourselves the same questions. Do I have the money, and time? And how do I want to spend those things? Do I just want doors up, and move on to the project I really want to build? Or am I excited to build some doors? Do I enjoy mowing the lawn, or do I just want it to look nice and can hire someone -- or do I just say screw it and have it paved?
I'll bet there is a voice in your head telling you what to do.
Ha ha. There are numerous voices in my head, most of them telling me what NOT to do. If I ignore them, there is generally a later payment for the lapse that I don't want to pay - but have to.
The currency isn't dollars, though. The bills come in the form of a devaluation of other kinds of things besides the content of the wallet. Need one elaborate? Of course not! We have all indulged, despite our internal warning voice, then paid the various prices.
Who sets up these alternative economies of various arcane value-types? That's a Very Big Question to which even Michel Foucault hadn't got a satisfactory answer. I blame the memes.
Lataxe
Sorry to come in after you made your mind but for equal quality in a high end door, you can make it for cheaper (material only) and warpage free. I made mine from white oak 6\4 stock and could end with a 1 3/8 thickness frame, the center panel is 5\8 quarter sawn two face white oak plywood. The hardware for each door was around $150, all solid brass. But if you compare to doors made in a press or with a cardboard core or made of softwood, yes those will be cheaper.
"I made mine from white oak 6\4 stock and could end with a 1 3/8 thickness frame"
How close was that to not working? I've never jointed anything that long, but I typically struggle with anything over 60cm. Maybe it's the jointer setup or its short beds or my technique, I don't know.
Did you make the jambs and trim too, to match the door? How about the baseboards in the room?
I would love to have the doors clear-coated. Am I right to suspect that only makes sense if the rest of the millwork in the room is the same?
Turned out very well, no special chalenge but I have a great jointer that can slice paper thin and leave a perfect surface and good machines to make perfectly centered tenons. One of them has a white oak 1 3/8 side and a 3/8 cherry side to match the room its in. The door jambs are mahogany except for the cold chamber where it is western red cedar.
I know I'm late to the party, but I built all 26 of the doors in my house. We wanted quartersawn white oak flat panel doors and the quote was $1500 per door. This was more than I was willing to pay. I calculated my per door cost (including jamb, hardware, lumber, veneer, and finishing) and it was about $750. They have been in the house for over 4 years and I do have some mild warpage, but nothing is sagging or out of square. It was very much a production line process and I typically built the doors in groups of 5-10. I did this in a small shop without any overly large or special tools. After the first couple of doors, it took about 10 hours per door to go from rough lumber and sheets of veneer to dropping the door off at the finishing shop. Just wanted to give you some hard data on cost and time to build a door.
Cool. What was the veneer for? You didn't like oak?
Sorry for the late reply. I used quartersawn oak veneer for the flat panels. I like the look of book matched panels and veneer is much easier than resawing. Also, the book match is on both sides and the panels match across the door and across double doors.
I am finishing up a dutch door project. The door is just under 4'x8' and is made from honey locust. It meausures 1-7/8" thick in the rails and stiles. The center panels are 7/8" thick and are tongue and grooved. This is a stable door for my wife's horse. I bought 5/4 stock and laminated them together to get the thickness I needed for the rails and stiles. For a custom made door in this fashion, I believe this was a less expensive option.
Have you considered making a Stave Core Door?
I haven't. Mostly because I didn't know they existed :)
I guess it's an interesting in-between. Not a hollow core but no need to mill massive straight boards and hope they stay straight.
It's an interesting idea. Especially if I didn't mind using veneer. It seems like a lot of work, but then again - maybe it's the sort of project where the first part is harder but the rest is easier...
Don't forget to share the result with us!
Another comment on door making.
I made an interior six panel bedroom door out of pine. I looked for the best QS sections that I could use for the rails and stiles out of what I could find at a good lumber source. I could pick and choose from various grades to get a good quality at a reasonable cost. Kind of reasonable as there was a lot of waste.
I bought 3/4 wood, cut the rails and stiles to l & w, plained down thickness to have final door about 1 3/8 thick. Glued sections together, cut m & t for assembly. For the panels, I used cathedral wood about 3/4 thick. I did the required panel trim for a raised look. I routed the interior frame edges with an existing bit. This now required me to miter the rail and stile joints which kind of came out OK. I can do better now with additional practice. Glue up, add hinges, hang door. All came out 'OK.' Fair m & t miters, everything else was good.
Was it cheaper than buying on from big box store? NO! But this was an odd size and would not be a cheap purchase. Was it fun to make? It was when it was done. I am pondering if I should to make more.
Work? So what,why shy away from work? There are many available manufactured doors that are very well made and some are beautifully designed. There are custom door shops that can do pretty much anything you want-- up to a point.( more on that in a bit) All my exterior doors are handmade redwood as are my windows. The interior doors are vintage Victorian Eastlake cedar doors that I stripped and restored and easily were more work than if I had started out with a bunch of boards! I have made doors for clients but found that if they want something that resembles a conventional door I can't compete with a custom door shop. They're all set up with dedicated machinery. What they can't do or wont do is produce a door that is very different or unique. I can make that door and have on occasion. Handcarved, or not long ago a door with a giant star window, a Alice in Wonderland door, things like that. I haven't made a tremendous number of doors for clients but I do have some clients that want and can pay for unconventional and handmade stuff.
High quality manufactured doors are expensive and if that's your target you can easily produce your own doors for less. You will work though! A person can without much trouble never go into a bigbox store. I haven't been inside a Home Depot in 20 years ,not even for a garden hose! I don't know what they are selling in there but I'm quite sure that if you want junk doors they got em and probably pretty cheap! Someone has 26 doors in there house?!!
I've never thought to count before, but mine comes in at 36 spread over 4 levels and including the closets. If you count the shed outside 37, and I'd like to, because It's one of the ones I made.
I'm at 22.
I was thinking passage and entry doors. Allowing for 4 entry doors and the rest passage that would work out to a (+-)22 room house! I wasn't including closets and certainly not cabinets or anything that has to do with outbuildings. With closets I'm at 24 but then there are the big double shop doors that would be 4 more. So ok 26 is not that many. Other buildings on the property probably another 10 or so. I never counted my doors before.
You should count your drawers . . .
And plinths! Just stationary drawers or does movable furniture count as well? This is a great exercise for OCD!
Is a stationary drawer just a box?
This drawer thing is really confusing! For example I have one of those units with the little plastic drawers for nuts and bolts 'n stuff, that's 48 drawers right there! Im going to hold off until the rules are established. I think maybe I will count my money instead ,oops done already!
Just a box! No way! That would be like saying any horizontal surface is a shelf!
There are more angles to look into how much it would cost. First, you will be investing more time and effort. Second, if you aren’t confident, you might make a mistake and spend more than you save. And, as John said, making doors at lower costs than lumberyards might not be a possibility.
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