First, I’m sorry… I’m sure that this type of question has been asked many times… and I’ve read through a ton of posts but can’t seem to find exactly the answer I’m looking for. Second, skip down to the very last, small paragraph unless you care to listen to me ramble on about nothing in particular.
Now, a bit about me: I am new to woodworking but have a pretty well-stocked woodshop. I have a 10″ jet table saw with extended table and router lift insert, a 13″ jet planer/molder, a Jet benchtop spindle sander, a Jet 16.5″ drill press, a Dewalt 12″ CSMS, a Jet 18″ band saw (the new 18x model – should be here tomorrow!), an Incra LS super system for the router, the Jet bies clone fence for the table saw, a bunch of misc. hand power tools, a credit card that is a bit melted around the edges and a wife that loves me VERY much!
Finally, my question: Do I need a jointer? My current big project is to build kitchen and bathroom cabinets for my house. We are building the boxes out of 3/4″ oak plywood and the faces and doors out of solid oak (red oak). This red oak I purchased from a local company as 15/16th, random width, 10′ lumber. This lumber has been jointed on one edge and rough planed (VERY rough) on both sides. Now, these cabinet doors are going to require me to edge join two or more boards together for the center panels… Thus my question, should I go back to that wonderful wife of mine and say, “sweetie, I REALLY need to get the Jet 8″ jointer to do this project right” or can I do it with what I have.
One other thing about me: I like doing things RIGHT. If it takes me a month to build the doors for these cabinets, or even two months… so be it. As long as they are the best bits of work I am capable of doing. I am the type that when I build the drawers, I’ll use dovetail joints on all the corners even though they’ll never bee seen by anyone. The facings will be mortise & tenon, not pocket hole (even though I own a Kreg jig for that) I even plan on using the oak plywood for the backs dividers and shelves of the cabinet as I don’t want there to be anything but Oak anywhere to be seen if someone were to climb into the cabinet with a flashlight!
So if you tend to want to do things “good enough” and particle board or melamine is fine with you, then that’s not what I’m looking for. Even if your “good enough” is likely better looking than my “best I can do” at the moment. I’m a firm believer in doing the best I can from the beginning so that as I get better, I won’t have to un-learn any bad habits than absolutely necessary.
With all that incredibly long, boring drivel out of the way… should I get a jointer if I’m going to use semi-rough cut lumber? Oh, I can also save .10 a board foot on future purchases of oak if I don’t have them joint one side first. ($2.62/bdft)
Thanks!
Replies
A jointer will flatten a piece of wood, while a planner will only make it a consistant thickness. To machine wood you would generally follow this order.....joint 1 face, joint 1 edge, rip to width, plane to thickness. You start the whole procedure by flattening a face. This is the reference point for everything else that you do. So yes you do need a jointer. If you plan on sticking with woodworking then buy the best you can afford. I would buy a 8" machine and look for a bed lenght of 75" or better.
If you will be joining edges, then, yes, you do need to joint them. There are many different ways to do this, with a number of different tools. But the most efficient way is with a dedicated jointer, as the previous poster said.
If you absolutely must do it the right way (let's get anal here), you will follow up the machine jointed edge with a hand plane to remove the slight scallops made by the machine. Most woodworkers don't bother.
If you use much rough lumber, you need a way to flatten one face before planing, as mentioned above. A jointer (machine or hand plane) is the best way to do this.
Regards,
Dan
Yes you do. Or learn to hand plane. That stuff you paid to have jointed will warp enough before you work it to have to re-joint anyway.
As to "doing it right". Well, my first house, I built all the cabinet boxes from hard wood ply, thought that was just great. Then saw how dark they were. From now on all the boxes are white melamien. No finishing and bright. Also, no M/T joints in the face frames, they are glued to the case, plate joints are fine, and why not pocket screws? They don't show.
If you want to build kitchen cabinets, a jointer is far nearer to essential than many other machines you bought. If you take a close look at your store-planed stock, I think you will want to do an awful lot of sanding before finishing. When you rip it, the two parts won't necessarily remain straight either.
My shop has been forced to change due to occupational moves, etc. I just bought an eight-incher (Yorkcraft) after 40 years on smaller machines, one of which was an Inca 8.5-incher. I found wide more important than long, so I even looked at 10- and 12-inchers. Fortunately, both length and width are available today at decent prices. The problem is size and weight. Even with the longest beds, there will be times when additional outboard support is needed.
If you are as well-heeled as you must be, I would suggest buying a six-inch jointer for your current project. See FWW issue #160 for tool tests. After you have used it for a few years, you may decide whether to go bigger or not. If you do go bigger, why even think about anything as small as an eight-incher? Furthermore, take a look at FWW issue #175 for a very clever alternative solution for those times when a six-inch jointer won't do.
As for your project, some value engineering seems in order. If no one will ever see it, a strong joint is important. It is not important that it be the most difficult to make.
RoRo,Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the input.I did buy a jointer. I bought a Delta DJ-20 8". I just read way too many comments from others that pointed me that direction... probably the one that made it most evident to me that I wanted a jointer was, "nah, you don't need a jointer, I've been making cabinets for 20 years with just a straight edge and my table saw and if the glue joint edges have a little gap in them, I just clamp them tighter until it closes up and the glue will hold it all together." The idea of having to force the wood like that just sounds like a bad idea to me.... even if it "works fine".The wood I'm using isn't from the local store. It's from a wood supply store in Salt Lake City called "Specialty Supply". They sell all kinds of hardwoods there and I bought 200 feet of 4/4 red oak in a semi-rough cut state. It's jointed on one edge and the faces have been planed, but the planing is only very rough and as I was loading it on to my lumber rack the other day I noticed that, while it's for the most part really straight with no major bows in it, it does have some "wavy" parts in some of the boards that I can't see any way I could get rid of without a jointer.As for being well-heeled... I'm not positive what you mean by that. If you mean wealthy.... no, not really. We just are willing to make sacrifices in other parts of our life to do things the way we feel is "right" for us. I bought the 8" jointer as I, once again, read many, many posts about people who wished they had gotten the 8 inch but none from anyone who "wished they had gotten the 6 inch".Lastly, the "value engineering". Your point is well taken, and I guess I must admit that a lot of wanting to do all those joints the "hard way" is much for the experience of doing them that way. I know a pocket hole will work fine, but I see someone in a video or magazine article put together a really nice mortise and tenon joint and I feel like I want to know how to do that... and the best way to really KNOW how to do something is to DO it, right? I do tend to go overboard sometimes when planning something out, and it is possible/likely that I will do some things the "easy way" (as long as it's still good quality.. I WON'T cut corners on that).Thanks again,Donald
I don't know if you are interested in hand work, but if you are do yourself an enormous favor and buy the Rob Cosman videos at Lie-Nielsen.
Hey Peter,
Does Rob Cosman pay you to recommend his products? Are you in fact Rob Cosman himself? Is Rob Cosman a close relative? ;-)Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Congratulations on the purchase. Let me be the first to wish that I had not bought such a large machine. It did happen.I like to plan and design my own projects, too. One aspect of each design must be that it can be completed in a reasonable amount of time. I'm an oldtimer, so I have to hurry on my projects.Good luck! And be sure to have catalogs from Woodworkers Supply and Rockler on hand as you plan.
LostOne,
I'm glad you opted for the 8", whatever model you bought. In addition to handling wider boards, the longer bed length is probably something you won't fully appreciate until you see someone use their 6" jointer and struggle with a long board or have to use a much more complex infeed/outfeed extension system.
Btw, it's too bad you don't like Jet. ;-)
Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I went without a jointer for my first two years of woodworking and now that I have one, I dont know how I ever got along without it. I bought a six inch grizzly and although I'll be the first to admit that it isnt the best money could buy, it does straighten wood. Also, did you see the lumber store/dealer joint that one edge? Just curious, because in my pre-jointer days, I bought a substantial amount of hard maple for a 2'x8'x15' entertainment center/wall unit and I requested to have an edge jointed. When I went to pick up the lumber, I discovered that it wasn't jointed at all, but run through a table saw that has guide rollers. The boards were straight, but the edges looked like they were cut with a chain saw. It took a lot of re-ripping to get that mess cleaned up. You live and you learn. Buy a jointer. Grizzly makes a decent one and they will switch it out in a heart beat if it has any defects.
Well, after a frustrating week where I had to beg and plead with Delta to send me a wiring diagram so I could re-wire the Jointer to 115... I was finally able to use it this weekend.I already can't imagine how I would be able to be without it. I mean, I can see how you could use a tablesaw and a straight edge to get one straight edge on a board... but how would you get a flat face without a jointer?I ran several pieces of my oak through it and WOW does it make a nice difference. You go from mildly warped/bent/non-flat boards to having once face and one edge flat and square to each other... then a few quick passes through the thickness planer and BAM, boards that are about as flat and square on all sides as you could possibly hope for.Thanks for the suggestions and advice all... me and my Jointer are having a GREAT time!Donald
Edited 1/31/2005 2:35 pm ET by LostOne
but how would you get a flat face without a jointer?
Simply put... Hand planes; no wiring required..
I started out 4 years ago with a small 6" jointer; it's been about 2 years since I last used it. I get by with waney edged roughsawn boards and do all the prep by hand. Slow and laborious, but it beats treadmills for a workout, and there's never gonna be a machine that'll look at the quality of the boards I end up with.Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
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