Before you all tell me I’m a moron for not using hearing protection, let me state that I am VERY safety minded. Safety glasses, dust protection, hand protection, whatever I can do. Now I like to listen to music while I work. Most of the time there is little or no machinery running. The only time I do use ear protection is when I am milling a load of boards for a new project. After that I use the machines (table saw, jointer, planer, miter saw, wide belt sander and others) in short bursts to size the various components of my project as I build. And I really don’t want to put earmuffs on and off as I work. So am I OK like this or not? Thanks for your input. PMM
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The best answer is: maybe now, maybe later, but guaranteed eventually.
Sooner or later you will be affected and not in a good way. It might be a year or it might be 20 yrs. You may not notice it but a ringing will develop that doesn't go away. It sounds like the hearing test tones that constantly change and don't stop.
Tinnitus <sp> is permanent and no fun at all. It's the worst when all is quiet except for the ringing that won't stop.
Still lurking after all these years.
Could you speak a little louder? - lol
Really, you do.
Find something you don't feel like putting on an off all the time. Some active muffs, for instance.
My hearing is shot, and I still don't follow my advice.
PMM, I hate wearing earmuffs too. I wear these things. They're really comfortable.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=2087
As one who now wears a hearing aid as a direct result of not wearing hearing protection during a career of carpentry work (and another, well, "career" listening to rock bands like the MC5 and the Plastmatics), I can state that you're a dang fool if you don't wear protection to preserve your hearing.
What you're doing - not wearing protection during short bursts of noisy activity in the shop - is not as damaging as going all the time without it (as you said, when you're milling a stack of boards, for instance). But those short bursts add up, and eventually your hearing will be damaged.
And let me tell you what that's like. Picture a future where you're at a party and everyone is talking in a foreign language that you don't understand. You can hear their voices, watch their lips moving, know they're talking in your native tongue, but you can't quite seem to resolve their words. "Fish" sounds like "dish," and nothing seems to make sense. You exhaust yourself trying to make out what everyone is saying. You nod your head, trying to make it appear that you understand, but are confused. And isolated. You ask people to repeat what they've said, but after a few times you get embarassed about having to do that, so you stop, figuring that it's better to just let the un-understood words pass you by.
Then you decide to have your hearing checked. You go to an audiologist, find that your hearing is damaged, and that there is no alternative other than to purchase a hearing aid. "Great," you think. "That will solve all my problems."
You are shocked to discover that hearing aids are incredibly expensive. Mine was $1,700.00. And most health insurance does not cover the purchase of hearing aids. You gulp, plunk down your money, and then enter the amazing word of modern hearing aid technology. You insert the tiny device in your ear and for the first time in a long time you're able to hear some of the things you have been missing. But it's only some of the things. You still miss out on a lot, and still have to focus and read lips in order to try and completely understand conversation. Movie theaters are a real trip. You're either covering your ears as explosions set the aid off into a bout of high pitched squealing, or you're leaning forward trying to pick up on words whispered during romantic scenes. And still, "fish" sounds a lot like "dish."
You start to change the patterns of your world. They resolve around trying to remember where you left your hearing aid "kit" the night before. You have to take time to clean the device, and there are a lot of tiny button batteries lying around the house. Some work and some do not. And they are expensive as well.
You discover, by reading the fine print in the aid's manual, that the devices are very sensitive to dust, dirt, and moisture. Unfortunately, you have a job and hobbies where getting covered in dust, dirt and moisture is part of the lexicon. And, to your surprise, you also learn that the average expected service life of a hearing aid is about five years. After which it needs to be replaced - and insurance doesn't cover that either. And now you need a second hearing aid, in order to boost the loss of high frequency sound in your other ear too.
So, adding all this together, you look back at the few seconds it would have taken to slip on a pair of earmuff type noise reducers or ear plugs in your shop, and regret that today you can't hear the voices of your grandchildren. And that's what it's like.
Zolton
Well said. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
The Plastmatics! Wow! That brings back memories. Wendy O'............ How about WASP, Sabbath, Maiden, Saxon, AC/DC, Raven, Ted, Old (real) Van Halen....... TS........ Dio.........Hmmmmmm... Old Rainbow (Dio)... The memories..... Like yourself, self inflicted hearing loss. Tough guy, I don't need any hearing stuff.... Ramsets, demo hammers, Tables saws, who cares? I do.......... now. Ear muffs for pretty much everything. Why not? What I have found as a side benefit is that I can actually hear the operation of the machines better with the muffs on. I can tell when a blade needs changing, or the planer needs attention, only with thee muffs on. Without all I hear is screaming....................... like for Vengeance...............Best,John
It all depends on how much you enjoy your ability to hear. It's a well proven fact that repeated exposure to loud noises will diminish your hearing sensitivity. How much and over how long a period is up for discussion.
On a personal note, I was born with a hereditary hearing loss that will leave me profoundly deaf by the time I'm 50. However, in my misspent youth, I was a guitarist/keyboardist in a number of moderate successful rock bands and never used any kind of hearing protection, which has hastened my hearing loss. All this brings me to today. Today I would love to be able to understand my youngest daughter's voice when she speaks to me, I would love to be able to enjoy music again, I would love to be able to tune my guitar. I wear the best hearing aids money can buy and they don't come close to replacing what I've lost.
I strongly suggest that you consider what you are willing NOT to hear in the future, then decide whether or not you really need hearing protection.
Jim
As someone who is aproaching older age (ok I'm not aproaching im almost there). I can say you will be impacted. Hearing loss is not a one minute you can hear fine and the next you cant. It's an a cumulative effect that sneaks up on you. You should use protection. To me the eye glasses and muffs go together. If you like music get the kind that can play music. I tried a pair once, but found it to distracting. If I have the muffs on, that means there is a possiblity of very bad things happening if I don't pay attention to the matter at hand (pardon the pun). Remember once you damage the hearing, it will not come back. Good luck and be safe.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Folks, I'm 36, I wear hearing aids in both ears because I've been hard of hearing since birth. I'm not totally deaf, but I cherish what precious hearing I have left. My $4000 (each) hearing aids are top line and technically they filter out any loud noise over 85db. BUT, I wear muff-style hearing protection because quite frankly, any loud noise physically hurts. Sometimes if I'm going do be doing a lot of routing, I'll turn off my aids, but I'll still wear the muffs. Honestly, at that point I can't hear much of anything, but people entering my shop know to wait until the machine stops before approaching me. Hearing protection is cheap insurance. Most health insurance companies don't have decent, if any, coverage for hearing loss and hearing aids.
What is more of a nuisance? Putting on hearing protection now, while you still have hearing, or struggling to hear later? Hearing loss not only affects you, but everyone around you.
But you want to know the real reason I wear hearing protection, and insist that others in my shop follow the same safety rules? I have a 6 year old son who copies everything I do. If I put on safety glasses, he puts on his pair. If I put on my hearing protection, he puts on his. I feel like I'm teaching him life lessons in shop safety, and that is absolutely priceless.
My 4 year old son is much the same. We have matching sets of safety glasses and hearing protection, and he won't let me turn on a tool until we're both wearing them.I only hope that he has better luck with his hearing than I did with mine. Years spent working with and around large printing presses and copying equipment didn't rob me of all of my hearing, but certainly impacted it."Light the lamp, not the rat! Light the lamp, not the rat!!"
Rizzo the Rat, A Muppet Christmas Carol
To all: Moron PMM back.
I get the message. Think I'll wear the stupid earmuffs. Thanks for the input.
PMM
You don't need to wear muffs. They do a great job and some play music but silicone rubber or certain foam plugs aren't really bad for long periods. Either my ears are used to them or they're actually not uncomfortable but my silicone plugs get washed frequently and I can still hear music at a decent level or carry on a conversation. If someone interrupts me while the machines are on, I let them know that if they ever do it again, the doors close and locked, then I give them the safety lecture about power tools and interruptions.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Dude, no one in this forum would ever admonish you, just offer advice from experience.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
When I work, I run heavy equipment, and I need HP, but hate ear muffs. I also have to wear hearing aids,( because I didn't wear HP). My hearing aids are overear, with a rubber/foam whatever insert that fills my ear. I found these inserts very comfortable, I don't feel them at all, so I had a pair of earplugs made out of the same stuff, and use them as HP. They work very well, are better than almost any other mode for sound reduction, and I never know I have them in. You can get them made at any audiooligist.
I worked in the commercial sound business for more than forty years. We built, tested, and adjusted sound systems, many of them capable of very high sound pressure levels. I was handed a pair of hearing protectors the first day on the job, and never failed to use them in later years. Now, at age 79, my hearing is quite good. If you would like to hear well at 79, wear hearing protection.
My wife was worried about my hearing loss. She took me into a hearing test. They tell us that over the years I have lost a little of the top and bottom ranges of my hearing consistant with men my age. It just seems that I have almost totally lost my ability to hear female voices! Go figure.
Most of the young guys I have worked with never wear ear protection but from the volume of the music they play I bet they will lose thiers anyway.
When I was a lad the shops I worked in had rules....like no music. I hated it but now I can see the point. The volume competes with the planer and blower. No music will please everyone. I am looking forward to working in my own shop so I can listen when I'm doing mindless stuff and turn it off the rest of the time.
I have noticed that those who play thier earphone thingys make a lot of goofs too.
After many years of REALLY loud rock music and two tours in Nam, my hearing is at the point that it drops off at about 3000Hz, which I've been told is where most speech occurs. I have been wearing muffs for years to save what little ability I retain to understand what people are saying.I also compete in combat pistol competitions and I then wear both plugs and muffs.You can't take too many precautions.Bruce
I like to listen to music in the shop also, so I understand the conflict. If you listen to the radio, you could consider getting the WorkTunes hearing protection that has a radio built in. I have a set of these, and they are quite nice.
If you listen to CD's and such, with a bit of an investment, I think you can get a pair of wireless headphones connected with a computer. Don't know what-all's involved in that, but someone here will.
I agree with the people who say "Yes, you'll do damage." It's only a matter of time.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
How well do these work with eye protection - I've got some good ear muffs but there isn't room for the arms of my eye protection to fit? Thanks,
Roger
About the same as any ear muffs. Order of donning protection: glasses, dust mask, muffs. If you put the glasses on first, there should not be a problem. It's pretty hard to slide the glasses on once the muffs/headphones are on.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 1/20/2007 11:37 am by forestgirl
Yes, you need hearing protection. You don't need to use muffs but if your ears ring when you're in a quite area, you already have permanent damage and it doesn't reverse itself.
Go to this link for more information.
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/hearing/noise.asp
To answer your question, in no uncertain terms should you go "muffless" whenever you may anticipate loud noises. As a matter of fact, quick loud noises can be the worst, i.e. chopping DTs, etc.
General Rule in the woodshop: If you think your ears will be subjected to loud noise, protect the ears, peroid.
Back when I first started woodworking, nobody really gave it much thought about ear protection, actually general safety wasn't given the forefront that it gets today. And for good reason, as well it should.
Now, at the age of 60, I have a constant ring/buzz in my ears becaus I was stupid early on. Please don't make the same mistake!
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
OK your not a Moron, Just an Oron ;-) Wear the hearing protection. After 30 years in a Power House where 100+ db was the norm in places. I used to depend on subtile noise changes to detect abnormalities in operation. Now its listening to a constant ringinging and hearing less. Now hearing protection is the norm for me. Save what you've got, what you have lost will never come back.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
PM,
Wear the hearing protection: be anal about it, and wear it even if you're only turning the machine on for 15 seconds. All of those 15-seconds bursts will eventually add up -- to permanent hearing loss and tinnitus.
FWIW, I wear hearing protection even when I so much as turn the shop vac on for just a few seconds. My hearing is still pretty good, but only due to forced hearing protection wear while around really noisy vehicles and other very loud (impulse) noises. Protect what you have: once it's gone, you'll never get it back.
Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
Why are you asking this question? You already use protection during periods of machine use. You know that loud noises can damage. What else are you doing that may damage your hearing? I am super careful about wearing my muffs. I have at least three pair in the shop so that one pair will be near me. However, I bet that in a typical full day in the shop (I'm a full timer.) the total time spent wearing the muffs is maybe an hour. They go on and off with the machines or hammer/mallet blows. It's not much of an inconvenience to save what little I have left.
Trade hearing ability with me for just one day and you'll never question this again.
Unfortunately most of the machinery that we use (from orbital sanders to table saws) is loud enough to cause accumulative damage. I prefer earmuffs, after 4 or 5 hours the ear plug style gets uncomfortable. Pluss they are always dirty and discusting (ear wax + saw dust). The smart thing is to wear hearing protection any time the noise is loud enough that you need to raise your voice to comunicate with some one else in the shop.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Another vote for the hearing protection. There are many types, ranging from ear plugs that filter out sharp sounds, to run-of-the-mill muffs, to specialty muffs that allow you to hear normal conversation and music, but filter out abrupt sharp noises.
I have a pair of muffs that reside permanently on the infeed table of my planer. When I use the planer or any other machine in the shop, the muffs are on my ears. The planer is the worst of the bunch, however - that's why they sit there. I have to put them on to use it.
After years of coughing up and sneezing out sawdust boogers, I've also come to the conclusion that particle masks or a respirator, and good eye protection, are a necessity as well. Better to look like an alien and be a little uncomfortable, than suffer for the rest of your life.
Good pointabout the s-dust. I recently installed an overhead air filter that along with the DC has nearly eliminated the need for masks when making s-dust, although I still wear one when power sanding.
Next will be a downdraft connected to the downstairs DC.
Putting the DC downstairs has worked ENORMOUSLY! All tools are ducted down throught the floor into a collection plenum connected to the DC. Takes advantage of gravity, eliminates a slew of piping all over the shop, thus freeing up valuable real estate in the process. Gets the noise out of the shop and it ended up reducing piping by almost 1/3!
Instead of a 2 hp unit and 220v, I ended up with a 1.5 hp 110, although I'm thinking of rewiring it to 220!
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I find the Lee Valley muffs comfortable. With the microphone adjustment it allows me to listen to music in the shop , hear the door open and my wife giving me instructions ( and I can pretend not to hear :) ).
Stewie
The Sawdust Shop
When I was 45 I went to ear doctor to have this darn ringing in my ears checked. It just started one day when I was sitting in a quite room reading and 12 years later it has'nt stopped. The audiologist checked my hearing with all the various tests available and his computer spit out the results and he looked over the top of the sheet and said " you are a woodworker are'nt you?" I had never met the man before and if it was that obvious just by looking at test results without ever asking me one question about my hobbies or profession (science teacher) I think you should wear hearing protection 100% of the time in the shop. I have a pair of muffs that are headphones if I want to listen to music.
Hearing loss due to noise exposure is cumulative. Over time (you young whippersnappers think you can get away with anything ) you'll pay the price. I used to be a sound engineer until too much loud rock 'n roll did me in. In a recent test of tools, one magazine reported that the noise of pneumatic nailers, although not of sufficient duration to be recognized as "loud" by the brain, still posed a considerable risk of hearing injury. It's inconvenient sometimes to be safe, but even more to cut corners and wind up in your dotage mumbling "Why the hell did I do that?". Safety and common sense first.
As I mentioned a little earlier, I heard your unanimous message loud and clear. Sorry for the play on words. In any event, I just went online and checked out various hearing protection options. Found ear muffs with 3.5 mm jack for my ipod. So now I can have my protection and music as well. Its a great country. PMM
Pmm
Last summer I was in a Bose store and tried on both their new "on the ear" and "over the ear" headphones. Wow. If I were a rich man...Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Pmmatty,
Where did you find the muffs with the iPod connection? I could go for that.
Thanks, George
Hi Dusty:
Try Elvex.com or, or course, Bose, if you have a lot of money. PMM
I truly appreciate all of the input regarding hearing protection. I have ordered muffs which will allow me to listen to music as I work.
I have posted this twice now and continue to receive advice to get hearing protection. If you all would like to continue offering your advice, by all means do so. But the message has been received and I have taken the appropriate action.
So thanks again. PMM
Two words about noise causing hearing loss
1) Permanent
2) Cumulative
So why do we seldom see Norm or the other guys on TV wearing hearing protection? Muffs are for wussies I guess.Call me a wuss.
YES!! I have not used ear portection for many years and now at age 55 I have a hearing deficit! I aam unable tom pick up sound above 6,000 Hz
The answer is simple. Only protect what you value. You like to listen to music. Maybe you can get used to imagining that you are listening.
A similar question frequently came up in my medical practice years about wearing helmets when bicycling. My reply was only those who have something up there worth protecting need to do so.
Tom
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