Do you own a Shopsmith? If so, how do you like it?
Does it take you a long time to go from one tool to the next?
I’ve heard non-Shopsmith owners bellyache about how they’d hate to have to spend all their time switching out the machines. But I’d like to hear the voices of experience here. Also, was it worth the $2-3000 price tag?
TP
Toolpig (a.k.a. The man formerly known as “Toolfreak” and “Toolfanatic”)
Replies
I've only seen a demo by a factory rep, so take my comment for what it's worth. The saw was the function that scared me. Bevels are cut by tilting the table, not by tilting the blade. The offcut on a bevel rip cut rides on the high side of the table and thus, when the rip is complete, slides down on the spinning blade. The demo guy reached his hand up to hold the offcut from kicking back, but that just caused my stomach to tighten.
Otherwise, the various functions seem reasonable. The saw is equivalent to a small benchtop unit. The drill press looked sturdy, and horizontal boring is a neat added feature. The lathe is lightweight but sturdy.
The demo was given in the tool section of a Lowes. It struck me, looking past the Shopmate, that right there within ten feet were much better single-function machines for less total cost than the Shopmate. But if you are really cramped for space, then the Shopmate offers a lot of functions in a small footprint.
Don
I bought my Shopsmith in 1973 and built a lot of furniture with it. I still have it but use it primarily in drilling/boring and as a lathe. I concur that the table saw app can be a bit hairy, but the only stitches I ever had was from my delta tablesaw and a really nice kickback. There is some space advantage, but not a lot. I now have all stand alone tools so I suppose that tells you my final conclusion. However, if you have an interest check out the used market.
Bill
I know many people with Shopsmiths and some of them turn out some very nice work. In the hands of a craftsman, it will not limit your work. To call them crafters or hobbiests (sic) is not fair nor true. In fact, the best crafsman I have ever known had been in the business for 50+ years doing museum-quality reproductions and used a 1940's tilt table Delta saw not that much different from a Shopsmith. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea.asp?id=1252 , but I digress.I learned to mentally sequence the work to minimize change overs and that worked fairly well. But I found myself using table saw mode 90% of the time and for me (Model 500), it was the weak link in the chain. Setting up for ripping can be a hassle when the rip fence needs to be just off the main table, just over the auxiliary table, etc. The model 510 and higher resolved a lot of those issues, but its upgrade cost was not worth it to me.I upgraded to a Unisaw which remains my primary tool and a stand-alone planer/joiner. But I still use the SS for other functions and as an auxiliary saw. If I had to go offsite to open a shop for my business, I'd probably take the shopsmith there and leave my other tools in the basement.It is a well-built tool, made in USA. There are many, many models made in the 40's and 50's that are still in service. My brother in law has a 1957 model that he uses weekly, if not daily, and finally passed it down to his son when he got a buy on a more recent model slightly used one. Some of the original 10ER heads are even in use in their factory as production machining tools.
As far as the cost... You can definately buy seperate machines to do the primary functions that the SS will do for the same or less.
The SS is great for a craft oriented hobbiest. Like making toys and book ends. Cutting plywood and ripping lumber thicker than an inch are not reasonable tasks for the SS. OF course you can do anything with a SS including crosscuttiing plywood, but then I could build a kitchens worth of nice cabinets with a skill saw as well. I just don't want to.
The small footprint is very nice for some people.
The SS can do some really cool things the no other machine can do for the price; like horisontal boring, production style pocket screw drilling and horizontal routing.
I kept one for a while for those reasons.... but after two years of not using it I sold it. The good news is that if you buy it used you will be able to get you money back out of it if you decide to sell it.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Mike -- do you (or anyone else) know what a used Shopsmith (Mark V, Model 510) is worth these days?I have a friend who is seriously ill, and has asked if I would be willing to sell his -- which includes a full array of accessory machines (Table saw, Drill press, Horizontal boring machine, Lathe, Band saw, Strip sander, Jointer) plus a vacuum, blades, and a pile of other small items (like saw blades). He has suggested a price of $1990, and I wonder if you think this is reasonable?Thanks.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Consider the SS only if your space is that limited I have had one for years only because of the drill press features with the new delta 20-950 coming out soon it will be on very shaky ground even there
I'm not thinking of buying the Shopsmith for myself. My friend is seriously ill, his resources are thin, and he asked if I would arrange to sell it for him.I'm just trying to gather some feedback here on what the machine/accessories might be worth.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Lots of them listed on ebay, suggest you price them there for ball park fiquire.
Thanks. I was hoping to sell it locally -- to avoid the hassle/expense of crating it. But I will take your advice and check eBay for pricing.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
A local church has a huge auction every year. This year there was a large amount of lightly used machinery available. Everything except a complete ShopSmith with dust collector sold immediately at great (low) prices. The ShopSmith didn't even get a bid. ShopSmith to me is an idea whose time has come...and gone....about 30 years ago. Just one opinion, for what its worth.
They sell on Ebay for around $900. It is best to sell the acessories seperately. You can sell the band saw and jointer seperately for 100 or 150 each. A totally loaded system can get 2,000. The Ebay prices are higher than what they usually sell for locally.Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
thanks Mike -- that info helps a lot.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Check ebay for sales of Shopsmith's. The price sounds good compared to the price of a new one. However, sales of used ones don't seem to get that great of a price. I wouldn't sell mine for what used prices generally go for.
Good luck with selling yours.
Thanks. Actually, it's not mine. I am trying to help a sick friend sell his.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I bought a second hand Shopsmith in '80. I don't know how old it actually is but it still works well and I have done a lot with it. At the time it was the ideal tool for me. My shop was limited to a one car garage just off the kitchen. Now that I am retired again (30 yrs Air Force active duty, 19 yrs Air Force civil service) I am building a 20 by 32 ft shop in the backyard and will populate it with fixed tools. I suppose I should post some pictures in the pictures of your shop thread. Just laid the floor last week and am working on the interior trim this week. In a few weeks I will be ordering a dust collector, cabinet saw and jointer.
I will still keep the Shopsmith. Its drill press function is good and I haven't seen anything that will beat its horizontal drilling function. The disk sander and the belt sander are both very good. The lathe is adequate for my limited turning needs. The band saw is okay but limited. The jointer is really limited. The table saw -- yuck! It is a royal PITA to set up. The tilting table really sucks and is scary to use.
But I would still recommend it for someone with limited space.
Best wishes, George
what Dusty said...
I bought a SS in 1981. I initially had very limited space - working in an 8' x 10 out building and moving the SS outside when I needed to work with large stock.
It's not a production oriented machine and the TS is the weak link.
I've made some high quality furniture pieces with the SS and enjoyed it because I was in no rush. Changing from one tool to another was not an issue as long as you planned activities such that the exact same set-up was not needed again. The company has been in business for many years and I always got good service when I bought supplies.
As I get closer to retirement, I have constructed a new shop and I am equipping it with individual tools instead of upgrading the SS. I will keep and use the SS and use the lathe, disk sander, belt sander, jigsaw, and boring/molding/shaping capabilities.
If you have the space, money and plan to woodwork for years to come, go straight to the heavier equipment.
Cheers!
I have had one for a long time I have 510 model. I bought it for two reasons. One I had a small shop and space was important(back then). It was on wheels and I could move it out of the way. I never did buy all the attachments, but I did like the variable motor, and the 12" sanding disk as well as the wood lathe. Changing from a blade to the chuck for lathe work was not bad. I absolutely loved the horizontal boring. You don't have to pay that price. You can find them used all over the place. I have since bought individual pieces, but it it does fine. I only use it for lathe work, and sanding now. I'm thinking of sticking the thing on E-bay to free up some space. Again, don't pay that retail price you should pick one of for around 500. Good luck.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I have an old model 500 that a friend "loaned" me about 5 years ago. It had been on his dads back porch for about 30 years. After taking it apart and cleaning all of the rust off it worked pretty well. Mine has the jointer is small but well made its biggest problem besides the size is that the outfeed table is fixed so its harder to adjust the knifes. I like the horizontal drill press feature but the saw is scary as far as I 'm concerned. The one hidden problem in the Shop Smith is that there is an internal bearing on the end of the spindle shaft that needs to be lubricated every 5 hours and its hard to get at. Anyway its a machine that can be made to work but it does have limitations. As far as resale I have seen used ones for 500 to 1000 dollars depending upon which accessories it comes with.
have owned mine for about a year, only use it for drill press and lathe. Only paid $500 for it used. It works, but I like my other tools better such as a table saw and planer etc.
Edited 1/24/2007 2:46 am ET by dlspeak
I've had one for 15 years, and am replacing it with individual tools now that I have a large shop. If you have limited space, it's a very good choice.
It's very easy and quick to switch from one tool to another, but I much prefer to have all my tools available when needed.
'
I have owned a Shopsmith or Shopsmith spinoff since 1966. My first was an 8'' saw driven by a half horse motor bought used. I had few tools and little space. Believe me when I tell you that I used that tool for years and for everything you can imagine. About 15 yrs ago, I bought a Taiwan made US assembled copy of a Mark V. Again off the used market. I still have it today but now have many more tools and much more space so I don't use it that much. I use it mostly for disc sanding and horizontal boring. If you watch the local papers, you can usually find a Mark V for sale at a price much below new. Many buyers of Shopsmith never put many hours of use on their machines but it really doesn't matter. A woodworker that is part time or hobby has a hard time wearing out the machines. If you are a beginner, I suggest a used machine. Then as you progress, you can purchase individual machines one at a time as needed. I have done it this way and as I said, I still have my Shopsmith (copy) and use it on occasion. I would not be without one. Another thing, I have had good and prompt service when ordering parts. Some Shopsmith parts will fit my copy.
I have owned a Shopsmith since the late 70's when after I got my first job teaching in which I was making a whooping $7800 a year and I saw the infomerical on TV and decided to travel down to the shopping center to see the demostration. I feel in love with it, but I agonzied over getting it because I believe it was running about $699 or 799, memory fails me right now, but I made the leap and I have never regreted it. Years later I sold it so I could get the 510 and then bought some of the accessory tools that works off the floating headstock.
I even went up to the woodworking academy they held in Vandalia, Ohio were the Shopsmith is made. I still to this day have the red jacket from them. I got a chance to tour the factory(the first that I had ever been in) and was so impressed with the cleanliness of the factory and I talk to some of the people that worked there to see how they really felt about working for Shopsmith and everyone said they loved it.
Not only is the Shopsmith an amazing machine(don't forget the inventor Goldschmit), but the story behind the man(John Forath( I hope I got his name right)who brought this company back from bankruptcy. A true American success story. I'd like to see John Ratzenberger from Made in America tour the factory.
Would I ever get rid of my Shopsmith, maybe when I'm to old to know which end is up. Can I recommend it, that goes with out saying. Is it the perfect tool, nope, it has a learning curve and what tool doesn't. It probably given people who loved woodworking a chance to do it because they had limited space in which it was either a Shopsmith or nothing. If your lucky enough to have a hugh place to do woodworking and are wealthy, you will probably have stand alone tools, but if your that wealth buy a Shopsmith anyway. It will help the company. No I don't work for them. I don't own stock in them although I did many years ago. I just like that machine, the company and their history.
By one, learn to use it, appreciate it for the tool it is and remember it's made in America.
I had a Shopsmith Mark V model 500 for about 24 years. Like many, it was my first woodworking tool. Switching tools generally only took a few minutes and wasn't that big of a deal. The BS and jointer did get to be a bit unwieldy and I eventually mounted them on their own stands.
It served me well during that period but frankly has its limitations and while it is a 5 in one tool, it doesn't do a great job at any of the functions. The absolute worst of all the tools is the tablesaw because the table tilts and not the arbor. The fence is, how shall I put this delicately, a piece of junk. The drill press is marginally acceptable but the table flexes too much and isn't suitable for a mortising attachment. The disc sander horizontal boring machine functions are acceptable. The lathe is OK but I hated the toolrest and the lack of a quill on the tailstock end. Years after I bought mine, Shopsmith upgraded the unit to a model 510 which improved some of the deficiencies on the 500 but they wanted an extra $800+ to upgrade mine so I passed.
If you are looking to buy one go for used and not new. The new ones are priced so high you could outfit your shop with pretty reasonable quality stand alone tools for the same or less money than a Shopsmith. If space is an issue, the Shopsmith is a reasonable solution. Several years ago, I sold my Shopsmith in good shape for $650 so you should be able to pick one up in that ballpark.
Steve
Shopsmith owner
I am a long time owner of a Shopsmith. I have a 1984 model which I have upgraded over the years. Table extentions, attachments and most recently the new Power Pro motor. For its small footprint and spacie saving ability it really is ideal for a small shop. As with all tools the more you use them the more efficient you become. Changing from the various configurations of the Shopsmith takes less than a minute for most opeartions. And really, are you that much in hurry in a woodworking shop? Moving from one machine to another should be methodical and well thought out for optium safety. The table saw shouldn't scare anyone. With all the saw and safety guards in place there should be no problem cutting wood at any angle. One of the best things of having a multi-purpose tool is that Shopsmith is always developiing a new tool or attachment that will fit any machine they have made. If something wears out you can always get a replacement that has been improved. The one thing I use all the time is the disc sander. Makes super precision miter joints and is great for hand held shaping of irregular pieces. I'll be a Shopsmith user for life.
I am replying to your comment as it is the most recent. I have a very early Shopsmith Mark 2 that I would like to find a new home for. It needs work, but may have more collector value than precision work use. It has factory wood lower rails. Is there a network of Shopsmith owners where I could place an ad? I live in Rolla, Missouri and it would have to be picked up, no shipping.
Don't be afraid of a Shopsmith, it is a marvel of engineering. I have had one since the 80's. I have a long and narrow shop so it is a good fit. The build quality is second to none. Keep that in mind when comparing machines. These machines are not toys. I recently bought a used planer and was comparing what was available on the market. The used shopsmith planer was the winner hands down. Quiet, solid, fast and easy to use.
I strongly recommend the machine, especially if you have a small shop or only do projects occasionally and don't want to dedicate a big chunk of real estate to your shop.
I had a Total Shop, a Taiwanese knockoff, which was better than the Shopsmith. The tables were cast iron, motor had more HP and could convert to 220V. As noted in the previous comments making bevel rip cuts with this machine was changeling at best as the garage door almost a hole punched in it from the kickback. After I started the cut I could see what was going to happen and got out of the way. The machine is a jack of all trades but master at none. The lathe feature was good as was the horizontal boring but the set up for these was a bit finicky. This is a good machine for doing small projects but is lacking in most other areas. My Total Shop was destroyed in a move when I was moved to another location. Since the company went broke parts were had to find but the insurance money for the replacement of this machine I got set up with a table saw, band saw and jointer and lathe and have not looked back since. Just my$.02.
I had a Mark VII for three years then sold it. As previous posters have noted, angled cuts on the table saw are difficult with the tilting table and require care. The router mode needed the separate fence and even then was hard to adjust and a little too high for comfort. As a horizontal drill it was excellent, if one likes dowel joints; as a bench drill it was OK but still too high for comfort. I never got the jointer to work without causing massive snipe and at 4" wide and a short table it was very limited. Initially bought because I thought I was limited for space and was new to the hobby - then decided a) that I enjoyed woodworking enough to invest in upgrades with dedicated tools and b) I could find the space for separate table saw, router table etc.
My father has had them since the 1960s and still uses them. He likes them. He has built some good stuff from them over the years.
I have a little countertop shop. But so far, things aren't going so well because of the quarantine of this =((
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