I’ve got a Craftsmen benchtop table saw that I use only rarely. I use a lot of jigs for my ridgid wormscrew circular saw to break down sheet goods and what not, and I have a Delta miter/chop saw that I use to make accurate, square, and repeatable cuts.
I don’t do tenon work, and when I need to make dadoes and rabbets, I do it on the router table.
I’ve gone so long without the Cadillac table saw that now I don’t really need one. Maybe if I ever go pro, I’ll get one; but right now, what’s the big deal?
Replies
So how do you rip boards to width?
John W.
For long boards: I use a jig and my circular saw.
The jig is a straitedge screwed to a wide base. I run the saw down the straightedge and saw of the base, which makes my offset. I then put the jig on the board right at the mark, jig to the good side, and rip it off.
For short boards I rip on my bench top table saw. That's about the only thing I use it for.
Need is clearly subjective. Clearly you don't need one, but your question proposes that others do. I'm wondering why you ask. Do you have a big tool budget and are hoping someone will convince you spring for a Cadillac? Or do you have to convince someone else?
I see all these articles/books/posts that say the 'heart of the woodworking shop is the table saw. You can't rip/crosscut/brush your teeth without one'. I'm challenging that paradigm.
I'm not saying that you dispense with a table saw entirely; that's not what I'm getting at. I am saying that you can have a shop that doesn't have a tablesaw as the centerpiece.
Like I said, I've been without one for so long that I don't have a need for one. When I do have the need (which will be when I need to rip/crosscut on a table saw quicker than my jig setup) I'll get one.
Edited 4/25/2006 3:43 pm ET by Daggs
I don't have a TS either. In answer to JohnWW's post, I do just about everything, including ripping boards, on my band saw. My band saw's a little over the top, but I expect a 14" saw should rip most boards no problem.The one place where I miss a TS is in cuts that require width to let the stock go by. If I want to do a quick crosscut on a long board I generally reach for a handsaw. For sheet goods I use a circular saw and a clamp-on guide. For dados I use a guide and a router, but I'm sure I'd like a TS better if I needed to do a lot of them at once.Pete
Most of the finest cabinetmakers of the 17th and 18th century didn't have tablesaws.
Their work stands in museums around the world.
That said; it was my first major tool, get used on almost every project, and I wouldn't willingly work without it. I could, but why would I choose to?The older I get, the better I was....
"The older I get, the better I was...."A lot of truth to that statement. I am reminded daily.
So you think that those craftsmen of yester year would rather use a hand saw if they had the option to use a TS?The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
What do you think?
The Skakers invented the circular saw, certainly not for nostalgia; or because they were into pushing the limits of technology.
The older I get, the better I was....
That is certainly a subjective questions and the type of work one does, the level of accuracy one expects and the time one wants to devote to using alternative technics would all weight in.
I couldn't conceive of spending the time a labor for the type of furniture and cabinetry I do. I stand behind my unisaw for hours and never touch my circular saw or jig saw. For that mater i rarely use my miter saw and opt for my table saw with Incra Miter Jig.
Aaron
I have to agree with Aaronb about table saws. For doing numerous repetitive cuts of sheet material but also for individual cuts you can't match the tablesaw for speed, precision, and convencience.
Often in small one man shops the issue besides cost is space. Some woodworkers will allocate a large portion of their limited shop space to a tablesaw with an outfeed table for the performance and convenience they gain while squeezing the space for their other shop machinery like the jointer, planer, and bandsaw. Others will go the other route of making do without a tablesaw in order to have adequate space for other machinery and assembly. It's as much a question of preference as what a person is used to doing. I have a couple of hobbyist friends who don't cut a lot of sheet material so when they do have plywood to cut they get the lumber store to do it for them. It's a good idea in the sense that the lumber store probabaly has a more precise saw with shaper blades. Furthermore, their cutting fee is so low it is often more cost effective to a project to have the lumber store do the cutting and focus their efforts on assembly and finishing.
That said my first machine purchase was a cabinet table saw. I love it and wouldn't want to work without one.
Edited 4/25/2006 9:49 pm ET by hobbyluthier
I can see having the lumberyard rough-size your panels for you, but finish cut? Never.
Most lumberyards and big-box stores do have nice vertical panel saws (Streibig or similar) but they don't maintain them well at all, their blades are dull (and not great to begin with), and they only guarantee their cuts within a 1/4".
If you can find a dealer/vendor who isn't like I've described. Reward them well, and hold onto them for dear life.
The older I get, the better I was....
I don't have a tablesaw.
I use a circular saw with a straightedge or a bandsaw for most of my work.
The things I cannot do. I do not do.
Dear GHR,
I have used a "Strate-Cut" aluminum straightedge and clamps and sawhorses to cut ply and other sheet goods for years. I have a set back guage for the handsaw and for all of my router bit sizes (used for dadoes) and find that techinque much safer that wrangling with heavy sheets on a tablesaw. I get very straight cuts, and the guages make set-up fast and easy. When making shelves or cabinet parts, I can clamp several sheets together and up saw up to 3 sheets at a time with good results and much time saved (you can't do that on a table saw). I have an Inca tablesaw and would not give it up for anything, but for large, heavy pieces, the skilsaw, straightedge, and sawhorse method works great and is much safer.
As for tablesaws, European saws and the SawStop are the only ones I have seen that have good guard systems (riving knife and overarm guard) and I regularly see the results of working with too large or too small pieces on the table saw. I work as a Physician Assistant in a trauma Urgent Care Clinic and see (and try to repair) what a wide throatplate, and kickback can do.
I think that most would agree that if you do not work with sheet goods, then you don't need a table saw. You can get by just fine with a bandsaw, router, and miter saw. If you do work with sheet goods, and you don't have a table saw or a panel saw, you will have trouble with accuracy and you will spend a lot of time setting up your cuts. Its your time, so do what suits you, but most would prefer a more efficient approach.
Todd
I think that most would agree that if you do not work with sheet goods, then you don't need a table saw.
Good luck on getting a consensus to that... We might as all go back to talking about Grizzly or dust collection! (Ha Ha) This is one of those 'religious' matters. On a serious note: I rarely work with sheet goods but I wouldn't give up my table saw. It's a method of work thing.
Its your time, so do what suits you, but most would prefer a more efficient approach.
A point we all should take to heart.
Buster
I would like to know how one cuts window stops w/o a TS. I do a fair amount of repair work on high end houses and repairing rotten wood is a fairly frequent request, especially for windows. I use my TS for making 15/32 window stop, etc. I can't imagine using anuthing else.The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
Window stops? Sounds like a question for "Breaktime". I have no idea.
Todd
I use my TS for making 15/32 window stop, etc. I can't imagine using anuthing else.
Safer-faster and even more accurately.
No need to cut between the fence and the blade.(kickback)
No need to reset the fence after each cut.
No need to haul your table saw.
Dino
Eurekazone
We regret to inforrm you that your KNOTS account has been revoked. It has come to the attention of the Grand Council that you do not have a suitable table saw. When you decide to start woodworking, please sign up for a KNOTS account.
Have a nice day!
Adam,
You're an instigator, laddae!!
James
funny....
but his from the guy who writes those lovely articles on hand tools?
did 18th century shops have tablesaws?
i don't have one either, i use the saws at work.
Hey, 18th century woodshops had a few apprentices around to do the backbreaking labor, I guess that's part of what the tablesaw,(and other labor saving machines) do for us here in the 21st. bcool
Sounds like you already have the answer ... if you are satisifed with the level of your workmanship without a TS then go for it. My UniSaw is the backbone of my shop and I can't imagine not having one - but that doesn't have to be right for everybody else.
Have fun.
Joe
Well, I've been reading through the threads in your posting, and there are many good points made. Here are my two cents. I worked with nothing but a radial arm for almost 10 years and thought it was the ultimate combo machine (crosscut, rip, shape, plane, drum sand, horizontal bore -- really, there's an attachment for just about anything) . My stuff was OK, and working with the RAS was mostly easy, but sometimes a little scary. I was constantly defending my choice of "franchise" tool to all my TS snob friends. So, one day when I had some extra cash, I gave up and jumped into a good cabinet saw. I've had it for almost 18 years and can't imagine working without it. I don't have a ton of room and can just barely rip an 8' board, but that's OK. I did keep the radial arm and dialed it in to the max for straight cuts at 90 degrees, so the two work great together.
So, in my humble opinion, dump your tabletop Craftsman* (though I think old Sears stuff -- pre '70 -- is just too cool for words), and spend some of your hard-earned cash on a good table saw -- one man's opinion.
* There is a guy over in the Power Tools folder looking for a benchtop table saw.
I have to agree with you on the Craftsman stuff. A friend of mine from the office, who's Dad was a pattern maker and had a home shop, told me I could have some old power tools if I came and picked them up. His Dad died a few years ago (at 92) and he is selling the house. Needless to say, I was there with a truck ASAP. I picked up a 1937 Craftsman/Atlas Metal and Wood Lathe, a 1953 or 4 Craftsman/King Seeley Floor Drill Press, a 1953 Craftsman/King Seeley Bandsaw, a 1950's Craftsman/King Seely Table Saw and a 1950's Craftsman/Power King 12" Disc sander that weighs about 70 lbs. Not to mention a ton of old Starrett measuring tools and calipers, and a bunch of other stuff...a real score. But the power tools are all really cool, and should clean up nicely. All the motors run solid.
A real score indeed! If you haven't yet visited the Old Woodworking Machines site, you'll enjoy this:http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/ByMfg.asp?MfgID=222The Craftsman photo index is one of the largest and most active of all manufactures. And there is tons of information on the various companies that manufactured for Sears over the years. How could you not want a tool made by King-Seeley (division of General Motors)?
Mike -I have visited that site...great resource. This free head start is a dangerous thing, I could very easily become obsessed with vintage machinery. I am contemplating upgrading the bandsaw with Carter guides etc...but given the saw's somewhat small capacity, I don't know if it is worth it.You should see some of the stuff that I uncovered. The Drill Press didn't have the top cover on it, but in poking around, I found it in a box that still had the 1950's shipping label sealing the box. When I opened it up, the cover was in there, brand new, along with the mounting bracket (cast iron) and all the hardware. The drill press has a power swith...but the other stuff is all "plug and go" not exactly safe. I will have to put some switches in between.
"The Drill Press didn't have the top cover on it, but in poking around, I found it in a box that still had the 1950's shipping label sealing the box."TPJ,There is nothing better than finding a sealed box with the original tool inside in new condition. And for me, the whole Sears/Craftsman thing is kind of mystical. Walking through the tool department at Sears as a kid, when all their stuff was painted gold, was about as much fun as you could have. Unfortunately, my old man was a Sears guy across the board, so while all my buddies were wearing their Levis, I was walking around in Roebucks -- that can scar a kid for life.The stuff Sears sold back then was well made by the various companies that manufactured for them, and if you can get your hands on a machine from that era, you've got a tool that will last a lifetime. I recently found a mid 50s King-Seeley/Craftsman 6" planer and an early 60s drill press (with the switch) while cleaning out my brother's garage. I didn't need either one, but bought them both from my sister-in-law anyway -- they're just good tools, and worth owning. I didn't need the 9" DeWalt RAS either, but that's in my garage now as well. It's a sickness. Anyway, best of luck with your Sears bonanza -- get some pictures up on the OWM site.Mike
I was brought up wearing "Toughskins" (some green) when all my friends had Levi's. When one of my brothers or I wore a hole in them...out would come the iron on patch. I didn't get Levi's until high school. Don't even get me started on shoes...it's too painful.
not exactly safe.. I'd say like most woodworking tools! Modern or NOT!Best bet is 'THINK' BEFORE 'DO'...
Agreed, but there is something insane about having a table saw fire up when you plug it in. One of the great innovations in power tools, right up there with safety glasses and push sticks...the on/off switch. It's like having your car go lerching forward as soon as you turn the key.
Of course you don't. That being said, there ain't much I can't build with the help of a table saw....
There are lots of ways to do nearly everything in the shop. You don't have to have a dedicated 400 lb power tool for every step.I have a Georgian Secretary I made with a $80 Taiwanese table saw and a router table in a 6 x8 foot closet off a deck. I did the glue up in the living room and finished it in the kitchen. "Make do the best you can with what you've got," Dad would say in the old days when we were pretty poor.
I have an inexpensive bench top table saw, but I rarely use it. I get much more use out of the bandsaw, which is easily the most used power tool in my shop. The main reasons I have a table saw, is to rough out wide complex moldings, and to cut wide flat miters. Other than those uses, I will once in a great while, use it with the cross cut sled to cut drawer sides to length, or to cut tenons. I can see where with some types of woodworking the table saw would be an important tool, but with the one at a time reproductions I make, and my shop layout, I find it to be of limited use.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Do you really need a table saw?
I HAVE ONE to impress the neighbor!
EDIT: NA! I just love mine!
Edited 4/28/2006 10:49 am by WillGeorge
EDIT2: Like 'ANY' tool.. Has it's place..
Edited 4/28/2006 10:50 am by WillGeorge
Daggs,
I too only rarely use my tablesaw!
But I dutifully purchased all sorts of them.. started with a tiny tabletop one, moved to a contractors saw and finally have a 12 inch cabinet saw..
You guys are all misusing your table saw.. It's a handy workbench, and place to store stuff. It also works extremely well as a collector of dust (judging by the levels On mine) I Find tools I've mislaid on mine and on occasion use it as a place to stand to work on the ceiling..
Hey and on rare occasions I can even use it to rip stuff!
I have a cabinet-saw but because I have a small shop I am considering this system with a Festool plunge style saw with dust pickup.
http://www.eurekazone.com/index.html
No, you don't need a tablesaw. You can pound out cut lines with a hammer and chisel, and take a full week to build a simple box. The choice is yours.
Like you, I spent years doing things with a straightedge, and circular saw or router. Yea, it works, but now I can do things 10 times faster with my cabinet saw. The first time I used it, I was almost in tears (well not quite, but you get the dramatic effect): a couple of precise cuts were done in about 2 minutes, that would have taken 20 minutes of messing with saw horses, clamps, straightedge, measuring both ends, getting everything set up just right, etc.
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