Last night I was sanding some walnut, and when I was finished I noticed my nose was quite, um, let’s say “congested”.
The thing was, I was wearing a dust mask- one of the blue paper kind you get at H.D. or Lowe’s.
Do these things actually do anything, or does the dust just follow the path of least resistance in through the spots where the mask doesn’t conform to your face?
Am I wasting my time using a mask? Is this one of those safety issues that everyone has ignored for decades up until a couple years ago?
I know, everyone will suggest a downdraft sanding table or a $250 ambient air cleaner, but I still think that’s like buying a band saw to slice your bread.
Maybe I’ll have to resort to the damp bandana trick…
Just picking my nose,
Kevin
Replies
Kevin,
You asked and answered all your own questions. You can get as diligent as you choose about dust control. Yes, it was largely ignored for many years. Yes, wood dust is at least irritating and at worst toxic and allergenic. If a person gets sensitized, it is no laughing matter.
Constant exposure can lead to respiratory problems, bad ones, even debilitating or fatal reactions (rare but if it's you, that's all she wrote). Overkill to one person (collection systems, downdraft tables, air purifiers) is SOP to another. You can get better masks up to and including medical grade "respirator masks" intended to protect you from air-born pathogens. I've tried wearing them. They're so restrictive to air flow, that you can't tolerate them for more than a few minutes at a time. You should definitely conform your mask to your face. If it can't be molded, it's not worth wearing.
Rich
Edited 10/8/2002 5:17:31 PM ET by Rich Rose
I buy the type of mask that has an exhalation valve. 3M makes a lot of different types if these and i use the blue plastic mesh one lined with filter material, secured with the woven elastic bands-- NOT the rubber bands that break so easily. They also come in several sizes so that you get a one to fit your face best, whereas the paper ones are One Size Fits All and don't conform as well as the plastic mesh covered ones. I got sensitized to chechen a couple years ago, so i wear a cartridge respirator now when i have a go at that.
Where can you get these 3m masks? I've looked at HD and Lowes and they don't have them.
Michael
Go to http://www.google.com and type in "3M 2300 dust mask" and the search engine will return several hits to you. Better yet, get the Tek Supply catalog by ordering one at 1-800-835-7877. They have on-line ordering, but it's a pain in the....had to wait a day for them to send me a secret password...BUT, they are extremely well-priced at that source and service is excellent. I have an even better suggestion for a style i've only seen sold in that catalog, better than the 2300 and only about 50 cents more: the #2700 (#2701 for small face) with a better elastic band. A welding supply place like i mentioned is also a great place to find safety gear...at least mine is. They will almost certainly have these 3M products and most likely others besides this to try. I gota handful of different ear plugs from them one time--one pair of maybe 20 styles--to determine what worked best for me.
Hi Kevin,
Thank you for your infor and to others the same. Great site to learn.
vn
I use the masks with the exhalation valve also, though I've not tried the one's Splitie writes of. I will, though, because the standard one like I have doesn't fit very well, and I'm sure a hardy percentage of dust gets by it via the little gaps that are left.
Occasionally, especially when I'm using my new sander :-), I put on my respirator. Fits tight as a glove, nothing gets by it, and I can definitely tell the difference.
Remember, it's the particles you can't see that hurt you the most (so I've been told, anyway). I think that they are the ones that tend to get lodged in -- aren't moved back out the respiratory tract as easily as the larger particles.
PS: When I was in the horse biz, we used to call those "barn boogers" -- admitedly, "sawdust boogers" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Origin is the same though -- shavings for bedding, shavings/sawdust from sawing!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 10/8/2002 9:24:46 PM ET by forest_girl
The inspiratory flow rate of someone doing moderately strenuous woodworking (handplaning) is about 100 Liters/min. That will suck sawdust around all the leaks in the mask. The paper masks are not useful.
The positive pressure devices like the old airmate visor work well, but are pricy. The cartridge mask with a nuisance dust filter isn't bad , but they make you sweat.
Remove dust at the tool with a vacum or dust collector. Wear a mask. Having clean air move past your workspace (a fan blowing clean air past you out a window) is probably the most important.
Be safe,
Frank
Kevin
It sounds like the mask you are using does not have a strong enough rubber band. I buy mine at HD (in the paint dept.) in the white box that has the two rubber bands on each mask. The first thing I do when I take out a new mask is cut off those rubber bands and sew on a 12 inch strip of one quarter inch sewing elastic using my wife's sewing machine (try it- it is just like using a scroll saw).
The reason I do that is not because the rubber bands are too weak but because my oily skin breaks down the strength of the bands and they break too soon. Other than that I think these are great masks.
Good luck with yours.
BT
Moldex 2300 by 3M. They
1) already have the elastic sewn on for bt
and
2) they come in sizes for FG. I have a normal-size woman-face; the small fits me right; very nice to be able to see over the top of it. This is also good for kids' faces. You can even wash them (by hand). I buy them both at Tek Supply and at my local Norco welding supplier for about $2 each in boxes of 10.
The link is only for a picture of them compared to the other types. Don't bother with the 2200 model--hard to breathe with those, even at rest.
First of all- thanks to Splintie for the link to the 3M dust mask- I'm sold already. That's what I love so much about this forum. You could never get this kind of info at a store (even good woodworking ones). Here I was thinking I was doomed to be using a cartridge respirator, sweating like crazy with it on, and perhaps rushing the sanding process in order to get it off faster. It never occured to me to look for a better dust mask.
On the one occasion I used lacewood, I did use the respirator when I realized it made me sneeze like crazy. I'll have to watch out for chechen too probably. For now it's just 2 project that have walnut in one and birch and cherry in the other- not so bad.
I do have dust collection. It's a Jet 650 CFM model that works great on everything I have and is decently quiet. I just yank the 20' hose off whatever machine it's on and plug it on to whatever machine I'm using. I'm a huge fan of having good dust collection, and I think I've been more persuaded today to whip out a little downdraft table out of some scrap MDF I've got laying around.
Maybe I'll breathe a little easier from now on :)
Kevin
Does anyone know anything about those Dust Bee Gone reusable, washable masks they sell at the woodworking shows? I have one and it fits great and I like that it doesn't wear out but I worry about the actual filtering capability.
Two words.. Dust Collection... Less in the air, less up your nose.. It can be as simple as a shop vacuum system or a major DC. Get something because all of the masks are nothing less then poor excuses for not doing it right in the first place.
I bought an airless sprayer some years ago and along with it a respirator (not to be confused with a dust or pollen mask). I've taken to using that when doing a lot of dust generating work in the shop. One thing to remember, though. If, like me, you wear a beard or have any kind of facial hair, the seal between the mask and your face is compromised. OSHA regs for painters now requires that they be clean shaven when working in any environment that requires breathing protection.
The real answer is, in my view, dealing with the dust through proper evacuation - dust collection. Highest item on my list of things to install.
[email protected]
The DC is my personal answer. I have one about 15 years old, from Grainger. 2 hp, sits on 55 gal. drum, with a cloth bag to catch the finer stuff. (When I go to shake it out, outside, seems like a dust storm, with windy days being the best for this.)
When doing work with the ROS, which produces the finest of dusts, I use a homemade downdraft table. It is about 2' x 3', 6" deep, of plywood, On one of the sides I cut a hole for a galv. fitting of 4", and attach the DC. On the top, I drilled a series of 1/2" holes on a grid at about 3"-4" or so. Just sits in the corner most of the time, and when I sand, I put it on my bench, and run the DC. Seems like it gets about 75% of the dust. Cost was zero since it was built out of scrap.
Since I enjoy bands and wagons so much, let me jump on this one...
I've been using a standard, big-box shop-vac/leaf blower for "dust" collection for the past several years. I also bought one of those cartridge-type dust/nuisance/fume masks (I can't remember the manufacturer/model right now, and am too lazy to walk to the shop). Between the two, I thought I was doing just fine.
Then, because autumn is coming and I was not looking forward to another season of arguments with my SO over who gets the shop-vac -- me, for the workshop; him, for blowing leaves off the lawn -- I decided it was time to get a real dust collector. With the support of a friend who makes handmade hunting knives (beautiful work, by the way), we not only convinced SO that a dust collector was a wise purchase, but that it would be a GREAT birthday present.
Three weeks ago, the dust collector was delivered (Penn State, mobile base, 1 micron bags and an add-on dust-separator trash can lid to mimic two-cycle operation). WOW!!! For those who don't use dust collectors yet, you cannot believe the difference! Not that I'm going to stop using the respirator (I got into woodworking late, and don't want to lose any time with emphysema!), but the air quality, now, is unbelievable, as is the cleanliness of my shop.
(OK, my shop is never really clean, but it's clean-er.)
If you're just starting woodworking and thinking of getting serious, do it. Buy a dust collector. It feels good and it's good for you.
DavidHmmm... the garden or the workshop today?
I agree with all the comments posted here about dust collection at the source. For added protection, I have tried a number of the disposable masks. Many of them are inadequate in my judgement. I've used the 3M cartridge masks and found them effective but relatively bulky and uncomfortable to wear. Recently I discovered the Dust Foe mask marketed by Highland Hardware? I believe. The Dust Foe is light weight, comfortable to wear, and effective. It is made of very soft rubber and seals well without cinching it too tightly. It fits easily over my long nose. The mask vents downward so there is not a problem with fogging. Even with central DC, there is enough dust in the air during some operations that a mask is beneficial. I find myself reaching for it often and sometimes forget I have it on.
I should mention i use a dust collector, TOO. Neither a mask or a DC are substitutes for one another, but i would choose the mask if i could only have one. I read some time ago (FWW?) that merely walking through an average home woodshop is enough to raise the levels of dust to beyond acceptable OSHA levels of exposure.
Wood dust is actually carcinogenic, and it doesn't take exotic varieties to produce it. There were studies done with English chairmakers using native woods that showed the finer dust was the worst for causing a relatively rare adenocarcinoma to occur with much greater frequency in those exposed primarily to this fine dust, compared to the control population. I happened to learn about it when my mother had a large portion of her palate removed on account of one of these cancers.
Hi,
Talking aboout DC, I have a question. I'm looking for one single state about 1 Hp that I could use in my garage workshop. The think is it need to be as quiet as posible. Has anyone have any eperienced with Delta, Jet 1Hp single state DC? Thanks.
Hey Vincent-
Lucky for you- I've been through the noise issue and worked it out. When I bought my DC, the salesman convinced me I needed an 1100 CFM machine to handle a planer and/or long runs. I bought into it. I got it home, hooked it up, and HOLY S**T was that thing loud. I despaired, but called Jet tech support before crushing the machine with repeated banging from my forehead.
Jet had decibel ratings for all their machines, and a report from OSHA about what DB levels are equivalent to. I can't remember the exact number for the 1100, but it was equal to standing beside a big busy freeway. The 650CFM model was rated at 55DB, which is equal to a small group of peolpe talking normally. I'd recommend calling whatever manufacturer you choose and ask them for decibel levels if it matters to you,
Anyway, I have the 650 downstairs now, and my wife can't even hear it when it's on and she's upstairs right above me.
Sorry to all for the departure on the dustmask thread...
Kevin
Kevin,
So, are you happy with that Jet 650 CFM. Will it do the job for TS, RT, Planner. I don't mean hook them up in a system, I prefer moving them station to staion one at a time.
vn
Vincent-
I do exactly that- move it from machine to machine. Actually, the collector stays in one place, and I have a 20' hose that I just plug on to whatever I'm using. The hose end that meets the DC is clamped on, but the other end just gets shoved on to the machine's port and stays fine.
I don't have a planer, but it sucks probably 95% of the sawdust from my router table- just for example. When I'm done for the day, i sweep the dust our from under stuff and just vacuum with the end of the hose.
Kevin
Kevin,
Twenty feet of flexible hose is a big cut into your static pressure, especially for a 650 cfm. machine. Try using only a few feet of hose and moving your DC to each machine. I'll bet you notice a significant improvement.
Jeff
"I happened to learn about it when my mother had a large portion of her palate removed on account of one of these cancers. "
Splintie, how crappy! While I'm sure it was a life-changing, terrible experience, I hope your mom has recovered... as well as she could, given the "remedy."
DavidHmmm... the garden or the workshop today?
Try a wilson 6000 series mask. I think the base unit is about $15, and then you buy replaceable cartridges for whatever use you have in mind. I got mine at a safety supply store. I use the p100 HEPA cartridges. Recently I sanded a 12x13 ft fir floor and wore the mask for probably 15 hrs over the course of two days. I'd hate to think of how much more dust I would have inhaled if I'd been cheap and used disposable paper filters. This was a project that generated a few gallons of dust.
Kevin,
I have a wife with allergies, so i am forced to listen to the bad things dust will do. The cheap masks from HD that look like surgical masks are pretty worthless. I upgraded to a mid-range with cartridge filters, and it works great, although, like someone else mentioned, it does make you sweat (depending on where you live, I'm in FL). The sweat is much better for me that the irritation to my lungs.
I also was just at a wood working show, and an older gentleman told me a story about how he had just had 1/2 of one of his lungs removed from the wood dust. He had never smoked tobacco either.
I just suffer through the mask, but I guess it depends on how much you care to deal with your own self.
- lee -
Kevin,
There are several problems at work in my shop. First, dust collectors don't trap all dust. Second, air filtration units are great, but that dust floats around quite a long time before (if) it finally gets trapped. Third, I've never found a dust mask that worked or that I could work in. Seems they either let dust in, or fog up my glasses.
An idea. (This may seem gross, but I'm serious.) Why can't some sort of "nostril filters" be made that fit the nostril like an ear plug does the ear canal?
Jeff
Jeff-
I like the "nostril filter idea"- it kind of reminds me of the first "Dune" movie where they all had noseplugs on leashes... But seriously, wouldn't you just end up breathing from your mouth?
I just ordered some good 3M dust masks to finish sanding the walnut bookcase. I think I'll use the respirator until they arrive.
Breathing easier,
Kevin
Kevin,
As far as using the mouth instead, as I recall Sister Francine Marie had a good cure for that when I was in second grade.... I suppose you're right. My problem with the things is getting one that both seals and doesn't cut off the blood flow. If they're tight enough to seal, after even a minute I have such a pounding headache that I see stars. (Same thing even wearing a hat!) If it's loose enough so I don't get the headache, then there's no seal.
Jeff
Anyone who uses or recommends the cheap, throwaway, paper masks is fooling himself. As you suggest, the bad air just goes right around the edges of the mask and down your windpipe. Pretty simple. Get the replaceable filter, rubber-or plastic facemask, with inhalation and exhalation valves. Look for broad facial area contact for greater all-day comfort, as well as good seal. Wilson and 3M are good. Don't fool around with half a---d, cheap items. And the same goes triple for protection against fumes, mists, and vapors---as in finishing, stripping, etc. I myself cannot tolerate *anything* for very long without the proper mask---due to ignorance when I was young.
What's wrong with slicing bread with your bandsaw? Overkill is a beautiful thing, man.
Kevin,
Dustmasks are a last resort. You don't want to become sensitised. Not pleasant.
Get rid of the dust instead. I agree with Rich, Splintie and others who said similar things.
Attached link to training brochure from one of our equivalents of your OSHA (run at a state level over here) has a lot of info & ideas. 2pp "dealing with risk in cabinetmaking"
http://www.whs.qld.gov.au/brochures/bro040.pdf
Cheers,
Eddie
Hi Eddie-
We're on the same page here. There was a link posted early in this thread for some 3m dustmasks, which I've already ordered. Until I get them in a few days, I'll use the respirator.
I have one more question though. I've seen mention a couple of times in this thread about becoming "sensitized". What exactly is meant by that? Is it a development of a recurring allergic reaction when exposed to the matial, or is it something worse?
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
I'm not a medical expert, but what I know about sensitisation is that a first exposure to a substance sets up a major allergic reaction in the body on any subsequent exposure, and repeated exposure makes a reaction worse.
I know from reading here that Splintie has a sensitisation to a particular wood. With me it's burnt lime (I was an engineer in a cement works for many uears - I come out in dry hives). A guy I work with now is highly sensitised to Urea Formaldehyde glue, whenever anyone is working with the glue anywhere in the building, his airways swell up & partially choke him, and he comes out in massive hives over his upper body. Not pleasant and a 'recurring allergic reaction' that you referred to.
Hope this helps.
Cheers, eddie
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