A couple of weeks ago I bit the bullet and purchased the domino set. I had done tons of research so had a pretty good idea what I was doing. I just finished gluing up a chair seat and am so pleased that I wanted to share what I just experienced.
seat is 4 boards, each 5 inches wide. Simply marked lines where I wanted the domino, perhaps every 6 inches, just as one would do with a biscuit joiner. Set my depth at 20mm and also my distance from board top to middle of mortise at 20mm. Decided to use 6mm dominos, 40mm long. No particular reason. They looked long enough and sturdy enough for edge joining. I cut the mortises (about 20) in all of about 5 minutes. No learning curve. Zero. Did a dry fit. Absolutely dead on perfect. Fit so tight I had to use a screwdriver (carefully) to pry the boards apart. Glue board 1, drop some glue into the mortises, pop in the dominos, glue board 2, join and use a dead blow hammer to pop the boards together. Repeat. Clamp. Done. No need for cauls as the dominos (unlike biscuits these have no vertical tolerance) kept the boards dead straight. And it was FUN.
I loved the thing. Anything which makes my work faster, more efficient, and more accurate is, in my mind, a good thing. I don’t know that I will ever cut another traditional mortise and tenon joint. If I need more strength in any kind of joint I can just use more dominos.
No offense meant to traditionalists in my comments. But once again, at least for me, you cannot beat fast, efficient, and accurate. PMM
Replies
Cool! I enjoyed your review.
Mike D
PM:
You experience exactly parallels my own Domino journey. I have been using it routinely for 3 months for edge joints, for frame and panel work, face frames and sundry jigs.
I admire your courage in admitting it on such an august forum as Knots :-).
Maybe more of us will come out of, if not the closet, then the systainer.
Regards,
Hastings
H,
Aye, there are lads about this forum who will sneer at the 'lectric tools, even those as well-wrought as Festool. Idealogy is a terrible affliction in all its mindifestations.
I notice that in another thread you have tried a chisel and found it pleasant. This is a good model for all woodworking behaviour - the seeking of tool-pleasures of all and every kind with no regard to them chaps who recommend we all return to the woodworking tool list from some arbitrary past date such as 12th Never 1768 or 32nd Goldenage 1924.
One day I will have one o' them Dominos, after I have finished my current plane-purchasing spree. But wither then the newish mortising chisels? I can see there may be a need for a handmade list and a machine-made list of cabinets and such. Or perhaps the method of the day should be chosen by a throw of the dice? In all events, it is exciting to play with different toys.
Meanwhile I am going to counsel a neighbour who has decided it is too old-fashioned to walk and he must use his car even to go to the shop 200 yards away. I know another chap who spits as cars and will only ride a monocycle. I haven't decided whether I will cycle, walk, motor or go on the skateboard to see them.
Lataxe, neither one thing or another.
Lataxe:I have the distinct advantage of being a tabula rasa when it comes to woodworking so I have no afflictions of orthodoxy or ideology when it comes to tools or technique.It is very easy to get caught up in the process of woodworking, thereby losing sight of the real objective. As Mel eloquently and humorously points out, sharpening is one such activity.I think you will really enjoy your Domino once it arrives.Regards,Hastings
Hastings, old whiteboard,
I was wondering if the dominos may be hand-made and remain effective? I have made many a loose tenon with rounded edges for use in router-made mortises. These work well if the fit is perfected with a drum sander (although a plane will do the job if a depthing carriage is used).
The disadvantage with dominos seems to be the limited width (they are all 25mm I hear - is that right)? But are they also compressed like biscuits and is part of the Domino effect the swelling of the blanks once located in the workpiece and glued?
If you (or anyone) has used home-made dominos (ie loose tenons with rouded edges) with the Domino-cut mortises I would be very interested to hear of your experiences with them.
Lataxe
Lataxe:I believe folks are already using home-made tenons (dominoes). To get a precise fit, they use metric roundover bits.Dominos come in a variety of heights and lengths: 5 x 30, 6 x 40, 8 x 50 and 10 x 50. They are constructed of solid beech so swelling is not a problem. They do, however, have indents for the glue, which may give the false impression that they are compressed like biscuits.Festool are supposed to be introducing exterior grade dominoes, but I have no idea what that means.Here's a quote from the FOG (Festool Owners Group):
"I would make my own 10 x 32 x 54mm tenon, and use the widest setting on Domi for a super sized m&t. Thats what i use on my tables i make and havnt had one collaps (sic) yet"Clearly the Domino's standard settings permit a much more substantial tenon, than the manufactured one presently allow.Hastings
The outdoor dominoes are now available. I saw Mark Spagnuolo at the festool booth at the show in vegas a couple of weeks ago and asked a lot of questions and then purchased one. I personally I would not make my own dominoes... The reasoning is that it just does not make sense time wise. You can use multiple dominoes at the same time if you need more strenght. Also... the dominoes are not compressed with the idea that they will swell with glue. They will not.Drew
Hastings,
There has been extensive discussion on the Festool Owners Group regarding the Domino. In fact, it's probably the most talked-about tool in the Festool lineup.The Owners Group discussions have explored basic Domino functions, as well as several really creative projects and jigs using the Domino, way beyond simple loose-tenon joinery.And yes, we've also discussed making your own Dominoes. But I think the general consensus has been that it's not worth making your own, since the cost per Domino with the Festool package is pretty low.Of course, an exception is if you wanted to make Dominoes of a different size than what is available through Festool. That's where the expanded settings, which you mention, come into play.The Domino discussions on the Festool Owners Group continue to expand each day.
PM,
Buying one Festool tool is like buying one Lie Nielsen plane -- it is very difficult. It is like a 13 year old boy who discovers girls. EEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!.
You have just begun to live. Now it is time to get the saw. With that saw, you can dump your table saw. It is SSSWWWWEEEEEEETTTT Sweet. And then you'll need the .......
Some may think these tools are expensive. That is just plain silly. The same people buy a car for $40,000 and in six years, they are out $40k plus the cost of the loan, and what do they have to show for it.
Just take $10k and buy all the Festtools.
You will feel good, make good furniture, and the world will be a better place.
Enjoy.
Mel
PS now send me the $50 you promised me if I would write this message. :-)
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
You are guilty not only of buzzin' but you are doing it about Festools! I believe the Knots fine is well in excess of $50 these days for such calumny so you will be out of pocket. Also, you may have to be spanked with a plane float.
If anyone makes, someday, the large black box with a hopper at one end and a furniture-extruder at the other, it will be Festool. (It will be a green and black sealed systainer costing only $1499 - wood chips and goo extra). There I will draw the line, although many will be sold and brightly-coloured car-chairs will proliferate.
It is just possible that Mr Ikea is already using one of the Festool prototypes.
Lataxe
Lataxe,
I do woodwork for the enjoyment of it. As the years have gone by, I have tried different aspects of woodwork. I am deep into carving, and am exploring hand tools, and I love to do this exploration. Different strokes for different folks!
I know a LOT of people who have bought festool equipment, and ALL of them rave about it, and they are doing more woodwork because they are enjoying it. The Domino does floating tenons. It is an old idea. Nothing wrong with that! They love the Festool saw, and they run it along its track and get very precise cuts. Their ROS gives a smooth finish (Not like a Lie Nielsen but not bad). So if rich old people are getting excited about using these well made tools to do more woodwork, it is a GOOD thing. One of the great things about you is that you are excitable! I love excitable people. They are in love with life. Some get excited about racing cars, some by Marcou planes (like me), some get excited by Festool tools. I get excited by other people who are excited.
That's why I enjoy our exchanges.
Please keep em coming.
Remember: One man's meat is another man's poison.
Lie Nielsen --- Festool.
Festool ---- Lie Nielsen.
As you say, when you offer someone a drink,
"Pick your poison."I believe that if we took all of the money that the U.S. is spending on the war in Iraq, and we used the money to give each family over there a complete woodworking shop, the wars would end, and the Middle East would soon be filled with Fine Furniture. Each shop would have some Festools and at least one Marcou. We could keep Philip pumpin' for a long time. Of course, since their electricity is not working all the time, the hand tools would certainly get a workout.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I went through several months of hand wrenching before opening the checkbook and buying a domino with all the options and the systainer. Regardless of what anyone claims are the benefits of the hand held power tool, $900+ is big money to spend for me for something like this considering it sure seems like a biscuit joiner on steroids when you look at it on the web.
However, after using one for the past couple months, I can share your enthusiasm. I have used the domino to build several cabinets out of plywood for a built in entertainment center. I was reluctant about using dominos in this application, but it was fast and I was able to dry fit the cabinet and even carry it around before completing it which is something I have never been able to do with biscuits.
In addition, I have built 2 window seats (one has an internal frame that required over 30 domino tenons). Because of the dry fit ability of the domino, I was able to build both sides of the frame and efficiently mark the placement of tenons in the rest of the structure. It took less than 1 hour from start to finish to joint, plane, crosscut and complete the framework. That is ridiculously fast compared to how long it would have taken making the frame mortise and tenon, and avoided the hassle of having to load up a dado blade in the table saw to make the frame half lap. I made a similar frame previously with pocket screws but this one is a lot stronger and I was able to stand on the dry assembled structure before it was even done.
I have made other things but you get the idea. I dedicated a drawer in my shop to the Domino where I have storage for the tenons and all my accesories ready to go. Making the tool fast and easy to grab and use makes me more likely to use it and so far its going well. I have 3 mission style cabinets with glass doors to build in the next month and I'll be using the domino for sure. Aside from building chairs or some heirloom piece that I choose to hand cut mortise and tenon joinery for, I'll be using the Domino. There are some excellent videos and articles out there if you Google Festool Domino that help illustrate what you can do.
Hi,
Enjoyed the thread. I purchased my Domino in early April. I have been using it regularly in cabinet construction. I can actually claim that the Domino has saved me money- sold my Leigh FMT, sold my biscuit joiner, and last week sold my Dowelmax. Not to mention how much faster and easier it is to build cabinets using the Domino.
Hi,
You said that you sold your Dowelmax. I have one too, but would like to sell it. Where is a good place to advertise/sell it? What did you get for it?
Thanks,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
There is a classified section here. Just look right under the Fine Woodworking logo at the top left hand corner.Cheers,Peter
Hello,
I sold my dowelmax for 200 Canadian dollars. I advertised it on Canadian Woodworking.com I didn't get any offers for four weeks or so, and then received a number of offers in a 2 or 3 day period. I didn't really want to sell it, as I consider it a remarkable method of joinery, and priced it fairly high. However, the reality is that I did not use it now that I own a slightly more remarkable tool- the Domino.
Regards.
Brian
I'm interested in knowing the cab construction style you're doing. Is it sheet good cabinetry or melamine? Are you doing face to edge tenons to join the sides to the tops? Are you using 5mm tenon stock? Lastly, are you marking the position of mortises to cut or using the pins to walk across a board. The pins are where I get into trouble when I am not super careful because I sometimes am not against the side of the mortise fully as I'm walking across and I get missligned holes.My workshop and latest projects - last updated March 10, 2007
Hi Paul,
I use only 3/4 inch ply (1/2 inch for cabinet backs), and solid wood for face frames. I use a 6 mm domino for ff construction, and a 5 mm domino to attach the ff to the carcase. I build the ff, and fit the carcase to the ff. (I love the way you can dry fit with the domino). I used to use a flush trim router bit to route the ff flush with the carcase. However, with the Domino, I can get them flush without the router.
I don't use any of the measuring tools/accessories, I own them but don't use them. I find it easier to simply mark a pencil line, across the mating pieces (keep it simple). Usually on the narrow piece, I make a "tight" mortise, and on the wide piece, I make a "loose" mortise.
The domino shines on inset cabinets, to leave a 1/4 inch reveal on the bottom of the cabinet- perfect for inset doors.
Love the domino, and minimialist cabinetmaking.
Brian
I've never built cabs face frame first but have heard experienced people tell me that's how they do it. If at all possible, could you snap some pics next time you build a cabinet like this?
Hopefully I can return the favor.
Its funny how stubborn my mind can be with cab construction this way. When you said 1/2" back and 3/4" sides, I immediately pictured the back fitting into a rabbet...
When you cut the parts for the cabinet, are you making the fixed upper and lowers the same exact size as the rails for the face frame? That's the only way I could think of building the face frame and cab and putting them together as opposed to making the cabinet and then making a face frame to fit over it.
My workshop and latest projects - last updated March 10, 2007
Edited 8/22/2007 8:05 pm by paulcomi
Ditto what PaulComi said. I'd really like to know your process if you are willing to share it.
Mike DEDIT: Also, if you have prior experience with building cabinet boxes and face frames using pocket screws, have you an opinion re the advantages of using the Domino vs the pocket screw system?
Mike D again
Edited 8/22/2007 8:48 pm ET by Mike_D
I am a traditionalist. However I remember that a woman in a Shaker community invented the table saw and that there was a time when there were no planers and no ... So, now there is the Domino. With it, like the Shaker cabinet maker of the nineteenth century, with a new machine, I can work faster, with more precision and offer high quality at better prices. I am a traditionalist of the 21 st century.
Edited 8/22/2007 6:11 pm ET by cmoaitsme
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled