All,
I picked up some Doug Fir 8′ lengths of 4×4’s (S-dry)at the lumber yard Friday night. They had them tarped but we had to dig out from snow and ice. There was some ice stuck to the wood. I put them in the basement (around mid 50’s) to melt and process on Saturday morning.
When I came down to the basement Saturday morning it sounded like a bowl of Rice Krispies…snap, krackel and pop…..with cracks appearing by the minute. I worked as fast I could to cut to length and mortice and tenon the pieces (building a heavy base for the lathe).
Not much noise down there this morning. Should I have left them in garage to warm a bit (about 35 degrees). Should I have waited a couple weeks to acclimate to the basement? Given there purpose, will I be okay?
Replies
BG, it's always best to let wood acclimate to the conditions in the environment where it will be used...and 4X4s will take longer to acclimate than stickered 1" boards.
As for the checking, it probably would have eventually occurred anyway...especially if the 4X4s contain the juvenile wood tissue from the center of the log (check the end grain to see if your 4X4s contain the pith.) Nowadays, 4X4s are typically cut from the center cant, since that part of the log isn't much good for anything else...And the argument could be made that it isn't much good for 4X4s either, but the mills try to get everything they can out of a log to conserve our timber resources.
Unless the checks seriously weaken the structural integrity of the wood, they shouldn't matter...except from the standpoint of appearance. I think the bigger risk is that the 4X4s might distort as they acclimate. If you let this happen before you do your joinery, you can true up the stock so there is less stress in the final assembly.
Jon, Ed,
I went down there at 5 am this morning to finish up the last two Mortice and tenon joints and then clamped everything up. I kinda figured between the sled feet and rails the tenons will help prevent a lot of twisting. Tonight I'll disassembel and plane everything square to each other (came with rounded edges). Also, I need to dado the sled feet.
I wanna throw some shellac on this wood. How long should I wait? any ideas?
Ed, yes a lot heavier..hope its not moisture. Most of the pieces have a quarter sawn look, but, as Jon suggested, a few pieces were definitely form the center. Next time I'll know better...these things were expensive.
It always surprises me. I start out with a simple upgrade (new lathe base) hoping to recycle some of the wood..and $300 dollars later....I got this heavy base with a nest of draws and storage case on top for the turning tools. I'm just not willing to work in as a crappy environment as I have been for the past two years. Also, I think it helps me do better things and want to improve.
Construction grade lumber being what it is, the S Dry stamp indicates that these were brought down to about 18% moisture content before surfacing. They probably could use a bit of time to dry further before finishing.
BG, upgrades are great, but just stay away from cabriole legs on a work bench like this...you tend to bang your knees on them. Chippendale drawer pulls are okay though...as long as you use the bail type that lay flat.
Seriously, as for when to apply the shellac, I'd wait months to do that. If fact, it wouldn't hurt to let it go until a real cold spell next winter sometime, when the interior humidity is at low ebb.
PS: Just an afterthought, but when you get around to applying the shellac, you'd better use a brush rather than that French polish technique. Too hard to get the pad into the cracks on those checked doug-fir 4X4s. :o)
Edited 1/13/2003 12:34:30 PM ET by Jon Arno
Jon,
Alright, I deserve that..it's still a crappy environment...an expensive crappy environment. (french polish...I buy American..lol)
BG,
Sounds like the lathe base is going to be a beaut. I like the look of Doug Fir for shop fixtures. It may not be cherry, but it also darkens with age and takes on a "mature" look, for lack of a better word. Don't know the answer to the shellac question - my lumber had sat in my basement for about a year so I'm going right in to shellac finishing on my bench next week if all goes well. Good luck. Ed
Ed,
Good luck with the workbench...using a 1 1/2 ound cut works well...and rub out with parrfin oil and 400 grit paper.
I built a bench last spring with a single row of holes down the length. I could not figure how I would need two rows of holes. I got my answer a few weeks ago making raised panels of white oak...without that second row I could not plane with the grain close to the edge..what a pain.
How did you come down on the tool tray or no tool tray question? My first bench did not have one. This one does. Anyone else have opinions? Just thought I'd open a can of worms. Thanks for the finishing advice - I will follow it. Ed
Ed,
No tool tray for a coupla reasons. I've got limited space and did not want to add another 6" to the bench width. The narrowness of the bench gives me options for its placement in my shop. Also, they are a catch all for sawdust, screws and tools I never use. Finally, I wanted to dog holes running the short side from the face vise...the tray would have limited me too much.
I built a cabinet above the bench with box doors to hold my hand tools.
Hope this is the right answer...ya never know with essay questions
BG,
I'm finishing up a workbench mde out of doug fir 4X4 beams - I noticed that the quartersawn beams were almost twice as heavy as the ones that were flat-sawn or looked like they were from the center of the tree. Maybe twice as much is too much of an exaggeration, but at least 50 percent heavier. As you would expect, these quartersawn beams were a lot more stable. Tried to strategize the glue-up of the top so that if it was all quartersawn, no knots and if the grain was running slightly one way on one piece, it would go the opposite on the adjacent one. I left the laminated top assembly out on my porch overnight during a hard freeze (not a planned evolution) and had slight delamination and checking at the ends in the morning - this area was going to be waste, anyway, but it convinced me to go ahead and do splined end-caps for the bench top.
I think you're fine for what your building with a slight amount of checking. I built my first bench out of Southern Yellow Pine and it stays in my basement shop. I get a slight amount of checking and cracks in the winter here and there on the bench which disappear in the summer. At first I felt concerned about it, but now I just accept it as a limitation of cheap softwood. For what it's worth,... Ed
I don't quite understand what you're saying. If the doug fir beam is 4x4 then one side is quarter sawn and the side at right angles to it is flat sawn. The difference in weight may be due to moisture content
Ben, grain direction still matters, even in a 4X4. If it's diagonal (in other words, not parallel to one of the sides and perpendicular to the other), the cross section of the post tends to collapse into a diamond shape as it dries out and shrinks.
Ben,
I used the word "flatsawn" when I probably should have said "plainsawn" or "riftsawn" - course I'm looking at the British woodworking book so I still might not have the American English words right (apologies to my aussie friends). Cheers, Ed
As others have suggested, the answer in brief is yes, you should have waited, although that's not all. In raw wood, at least, cracking is often caused by too-rapid change of internal tensions as moisture is released; since moisture escapes fastest from the end grain, it might have helped to paint the ends of the 4x4s with some wax or just about any kind of paint during the acclimatizing period.
Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township
Norm,
To be frank, I did not think I was buying green wood at the lumber yard...certainly not at their prices. He (yard guy)did point out to me it was S-dry and when I got home I grabbed my wood book from the library to find out what that meant which was not to much help. But it was Dick on here that said it equals 18% moisture. So far the cracks have been small and internal. Your suggestion is a good one and I've have learned a couple of new things from this experience about 4x4's...stay away from the center cuts....watch for S-Dry.....treat wood (time/shellac ends) if appropriate...
There was another lathe base plan with cinder blocks...hmmm..with a french polish....
I've got news for you. S dry means 18% , Ok but! Too often I've seen them ship out the 4x4's on the same load as the 1inch stuff! You tell me how they can both get to the same moisture level..
Time to buy a moisture meter..
for what it's worth, my 4x4 black walnut cants are still around 16 percent moisture in the center after 4 years of stickered air drying!
On the other hand, I'd go ahead and build.. It should affect anything too much! and if it does you can always adjust later!
Frenchy,
I finished up all the dados this morning and put the base together with the nest of draws in a dry fit mode. Tonight I'll take apart and shape the feet a little, along with some sanding..probably stay around 100 grit. Lucky I had my face shield on this morning. The dado blade hit a loose knot
I'm debating weather to glue or screw together...in case I have problems down the line...
screw and glue but if you do only one, screw.. They will dry up and when they do they will loosen up. it's much nicer to grab a wrench and tighten then disassemble and reglue.
Frenchy, I think there's some confusion afoot here about what "S-DRY" means. It simply means that the wood was surfaced at the mill while at a moisture content of 18% or less. The reason for surfacing it at that MC is so that the dimensions of the stock will remain relatively true when the wood is put in use...i.e., won't shrink so badly that a 2X4 that was milled to 1-1/2" X 3-1/2" net, turns out to be 1-1/4" X 3-1/4" by the time it becomes a thoroughly dry stud in somebody's wall.
Sometimes on a grade stamp you'll see "S-15" or something similar that indicates that the wood was surfaced while at a moisture content of 15% or less. It costs a little more to produce, but it allows the lumber to remain more dimensionally true when it is shipped into drier climates.
These designations are important in the construction trade where dimension stock comes in from all over the place and thicknesses have to match, because the lumber is used as is and not resurfaced or milled in any way, except to cut it to length. In cabinet making, it's a worthless distinction...since it has nothing to do with how the wood was kiln dried (relative to releaving stresses), but only that they troubled themselves to kiln it down to below 18% before they surfaced it.
Another reason for drying to 18% is that houses are now so airtight that wood takes a long time to dry if it is covered over quickly. Taking it below 18 takes it below the range of fungus and mould attack. I understand that it is now building code mandated in many jurisdictions and I know the building inspectors around here were issued moisture meters.
Dick, the cut off for most decay fungi is 20%MC...So, that is another benefit achieved by taking it down to 18%MC before surfacing (another is it reduces the weight which makes it cheaper to ship), but the primary reason is to ensure consistent dimensions for the construction trade.
Kiln drying procedures for cabinet quality stock are a world apart, in that they usually kiln the wood down to 6%-8%MC and then steam it while it's still in the kiln to relax the stresses.
This difference in kiln methods (schedules) is the biggest problem in using construction lumber for furniture making. The construction stuff is almost always case hardened and when you attempt to change the dimensions (rip, plane or resaw it) it tends to cup and bow...especially with 2" or heavier construction grade material like 2X4, 2X6, 2X8, 4X4, etc.
I know exactly what you are talking about. I used some clear construction grade 2x12 to make a french door once. You only need to do that once to appreciate the difference.
Jon,
Thanks for the great information in your posts. I was one of those people who thought that kiln drying was the same for construction lumber and furniture-grade. I went back and read an article that you wrote in Oct 98 FWW which also shed light on the subject. I have this question, if you are buying FAS furniture-grade hardwood retail in small quantities (100 to 200 bd ft.) how much of the price is driven by the controlled kiln-drying schedule, assuming it's that steam kiln stress relief process? Guestimate as to the percentage of price? That would kind of just kind of cap off the new information I have learned today. Thanks. Ed
Ed, most of the cost of any given cabinet wood is driven by supply/demand rather than kiln costs...So it's hard to express the cost of processing as a percent of the retail price. I've had 1000BF quantities of green hardwood kiln dried to cabinet making standards for under $.50 per board foot. An important factor in the cost of kiln drying is the thickness of the stock. Heavy material (8/4 and up) is more costly to process, because it's both slower and more risky to kiln dry with minimum stress. Also, some species are more difficult to process in that they have more complicated kiln schedules or benefit from pre kiln processes like steaming.
All things considered though, kiln drying is not a huge expense...It's just that in the construction lumber segment of the industry, where competion is great and margins are low, every penny counts and every effort is made to shorten kiln time and get the product shipped.
Thanks Jon. Excellent info. I'm fairly interested in the lumber production industries and determined to learn as much as possible. Ed
Jon,
How ca two loads of wood wind up with the same moisture when one is an inch board and one is 4 inches thick? doesn't thicker mean more moisture to dry? won't it take longer evan to get the surface to 18%.
That was my thought, I have seen it too often for it to be an accident.. I'm just saying that when it was shipped there most likely more than the 18% there is supposed to be.
Yes I understand that doesn't reflect the insides, or how much it dries in transit, in the lumber yard etc., just the surface..
I'd agree Frenchy. 2"stock contains more moisture (in absolute terms per surface square foot), it takes longer to dry and absorbs moisture more slowly than 1" stock. I'd also agree that the MC of wood is never constant throughout the board, if there is any fluctuation in humidity...It moves in and it moves out...and the thicker the wood is, the slower the process.
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