Greetings
I’ve been working on cutting dovetails by hand. I think it was Krenov who called them “joints that sing”. I just bought some cheap wood and began practicing after reading a few articles in FWW and “Tag Frid Teaches Woodworking”. In roughly 30 attemps I have produced one through joint I would consider acceptable if it were included in something I made that would be seen by the general public. I suspect if I keep at it, someday I will be satisfied with the result consistently. But if I wait that long to produce something finished I’ll give up the hobby and take up poker or some such. So…
I’m thinking of buying a dovetail jig so I can make dovetails with a router. There’s a bewildering range of products out there. They range in price from ~$50 to $450 and up. It looks like the low priced ones are only (or mostly) good for half-blind joints. The expensive tools support variable spacing which looks like a good idea. (These joints might hum, at least.) But it’s not clear to me that all the bells and whistles will pay off in freedom or enjoyment. Some jigs limit the width of the workpeice while one seems to allow arbitrary lengths but it is referred to as a “job site” tool which ives me pause.
Does anyone have any constructive thoughts on making a choice? Any experience with these that sheds some much needed light on these tools? Features? options? Flexibility? Starting out vs. where you can go from there?
Grateful for your thoughts…
Replies
i hear your pain, brother! those dovetail jigs by leigh, keller and porter cable not to mention incra and woodrat are EXPENSIVE and probably not worth it if you're just a hobbyist like me. try looking at the STOTS dovetail master template system - you can make your own keller dovetail jig for $40 (not including the wood!)
I am also looking into buying a dovetail jig. I have a couple of projects that will use dovetails. I had not done any for several years so I practiced. I eventually got some that are acceptable. However, it caused some repetitive motions symptoms - tingling of the fingers, and so on. Then I remembered that I had the symptoms several years ago - more pronounced - when I made a small cabinet with dovetailed carcass and drawers. So, I willing to spend the money for a jig. I would like to hear from those who have used one or more of the several on the market. Which on do you have and how well does it work. I have read the reviews in FWW, but there are new products and new models of old products.
Hi. I will share my experience with you. I purchased a leigh dovetail jig. It was a nightmare that no person should experience. From the start it was a horror show. I could not make the thing work. I have a friend that is realy good with jigs (making and using them) who came over to "show me" how to use it. He is a very religious guy. He swore, swore some more and then took the wood out and fired it into the wall of my workshop. I paid a lot of money for the thing. Although I didn't buy it from him, my local tool store gave me the full amount I paid for it against another purchase. The porter cable units are very good. That will be my next purchase..
good luck. Joe
Glenn,
This is one of those no-win subjects but I'll offer my experience. I own a Leigh jig and use it primarily for through joints, variably-spaced joints and sliding dovetails. I use a PC Omijig when I need many half-blind jointed drawers. personally, I find the Leigh extremely easy to use if you start out by simply assuming you know nothing and take it step by step, practicing each step along the way. The Omijig is bullet-proof for "production-level" half-blind work as long as you will settle for drawer dimensions that must be in fixed increments and evenly spaced. I seriously considered the Woodrat for its great M&T capabilities but was uncertain about the dovetail features.
Bottom line, these jigs have a learning curve and while they work as intended out of the box, most of us don't. Unless you envision building lots of drawers for a single project, I would take advantage of used Leigh jigs. I picked mine up $250, almost brand new.
Doug
Glennsky
Here is something to remember, when using any of the jigs that require a template guide. Dont turn your router 180 degrees around, when making a second pass. Example you make a pass and you find out that you need to make a depth adjustment. How you adjust the router depth and not looking you turned the router 180 degrees and go back through your template. Your dovetails will change in size due to the slight off center condition between the template guide and the cutter.
Redbob
I bought the Porter Cable Omni Jig. I did some practice on it - both half blind and through. The latter was easier to set up. The video that comes with it is worth watching. There are a lot to tips that aren't in the instruction book. I haven't used other jigs, so I have no basis for comparison, nonetheless I do recommend the Porter Cable. The learning didn't take too long and the results were great.
I can make decent hand cut - after a lot of practice. But as I mentioned in my earlier post, if a do a fair number I get repetiive motion symptoms from chopping the waste. Too old I guess.
The Omni jig will work well for me for several projects I have in the planning stage that will require lots of dovetails.
It is like everything else. It takes time and the right instruction to learn. I took some summer classes from Krenov and in no time at all I was cutting excellent dovetails. I had tried otocut them for quite some time. But with Krenov's help it took me about two times to get it right. even the first time with his instruction was much better than anything I had produced previously. When you get good, you will do a better job in less time than it takes to set up a jig.
Hand cut dovetails strike me as the holy grail at this point. I'm nearly to the point of deciding I simply don't have the ability (talent or whatever you want to call it) and I produce ONE acceptable joint. I sure wish there was some place I could go to get instruction like you mentioned. After reading .-1 it almost sounds achievable.
Thanks all for your advice.
Hand cut dovetails are very possible. One of the problems is with so many saws. Most of the American saws is that they have way too much set. For thin stock less than 3/4" I use a Japanese Dozuki with 26 teeth per inch. Cut the pins first then use the pins to mark the tails. As for sharpening my chisels I use good German chisels such as Hirsch or Jacob Busch. I use a water wheel to peel back the top of the bevel to about 3/4" to 1" length. Then I sharpen the cutting edge at about a 20 degree bevel. This creates two bevels. When I peel back the top bevel to about 1" in length it reduces the thickness of the wedge. Plus it requires very little force to drive the chisel. (A good example of what the chisel should look like is found in a picture on their home page at http://www.crfinefurniture.com/).I use about a six to 12 ounce mallet using light taps. To help me in chiseling in between the cuts I use a block with sandpaper glued to the bottom and clamp it on the line I scribed with the marking gauge. The block is about 1-3/4" thick. This give me a nice firm area to rest my chisel against so I can get a straight cut. I only cut on the line as the final cut very slightly paring the final material to be cut. I cut from both sides toward the center. That means I will have to clamp the block twice (once on each side).Much of the success is in having good tools sharpened properly. When I taught high school each student was required to cut hand cut dovetails. So I know others can be successful. Krenov wrote a few books. It is either Cabinetmaker's Notebook or The Impractical Cabinetmaker that has the information. Both books are well worth getting. On the website of the school is listed their graduates. You might find one near you. Their website is http://www.crfinefurniture.com/
Don't give up , I cut dovetails by hand and own a very old craftsmen dovetail jig.Have not used jig for several years. If you own either a bandsaw or scrollsaw, cut the tails on it first. Then use the tails to mark out the pins. I cut the pins with a small backsaw,then chop out the waste. When chopping the waste,first score the board with your chisel,lightly tap the chisel with the bevel towards the waste. Then remove this thin sliver by paring or chopping towards the score line .If your chisel is sharp,you now have a clean cut about 1/16" deep.Repeat this several times until you are 1/2 way thru. Turn board over and repeat. Very little paring should be needed to fit the tails over the pins.The bandsaw or scroll saw assures a square cut.
I cut the pins by hand, because tilting the bandsaw table is a PITA.I use the bandsaw for the tails mostly because it's easier, not neccesary though.I believe a very fine tooth saw may help you in the beginning.I have a friend who cuts dovetails with a 24 tooth hacksaw,works for him.Examine your failed cuts,is the problem with the sawing or the chopping? Maybe both? In any case , I got $10.00 on you to succeed.
mike
Made drawers for years with trashy joints. Started using the Leigh, and now make all joints with it. Yes, it takes patience and studiousness; I read each pertinent page of the manual each time I use it to forestall surprises. Buy one, use it, and later acquire all the other jigs they offer.
Good luck.
I wouldn't call my dovetails a song, more like the sound from the change rooms of a winning rugby team, but I will show them in public. I needed a few boxes, my pipes, a couple of special tools, things like that. So I statred doing the joinery with hand cut dove tails. After a very short time, they were workable, and I had some useful product as well.
An add-on question to Glennsky about dovetail jigs: does anyone have experience with the Akeda Dovetail jig? Thanks, Idaho Joe
I agree pretty much with gb93433's advice. An excellent Japanese saw and proper chisels made all the difference for me. I've used a few router type dovetail jigs and I didn't like any of them for non production work. Lee Valley has what appears to be a nice little setup for hand cut dovetails. I'm very curious about it, I may buy one.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=41718&category=1,42884&ccurrency=1&SID=
You didn't mention what timber you are using. The harder the timber the better fit has to be. I'd recommend sticking to ~1/2 inch material while you master the dovetail. Your persistence will pay off, good luck!
Have both the Leigh D4 and the Festool VS600.
The Leigh sits mostly gathering dust. Not because it is a bad tool but because the Festool is so much better. Do yourself a favor and check out woodshopdemos.com for a write up and the Festool web site for more information
No don't give up! Like most others I started off trying to cut dovetails myself reading all the articles etc. Then I took a 4 hour class from my Lie-Nielsen distributor. 12 guys in a class and by the end of it 9 of us cut very good dovetails and the other 3 where borderline OK. I am not trying to sell you tools here, but the technique. Go to the Lie-Nielsen web site and purchase Rob Cosmans basic dovetailing video. He shows you how and more importantly why you go through each step. I have lent my video to friends that learned from watching it, and they too can cut a perfect set. It is not hard when you understand. Good luck.
Well, I'm new here and also fairly new to woodworking so I figured I'd see what everyone thinks of what I decided on to solve the dovetail jig issue.
I just ordered an Incra LS Super System for my router. It's a bit pricey at about $475, but it is supposed to be able to do a ton of different dovetail/box joints as well as be very good for other routing tasks. Considering most of the "high end" dovetail jigs were in the $250+ range I figured I'd just get this Incra and be able to do more than just dovetails.
Anyone have any comments on this philosophy of mine? Anyone have one of these and can tell me what they think of it?
Regards,
LostOne
Yeah, learn to cut them by hand.
yeah, yeah, yeah... if God meant us to cut wood by hand then he wouldn't have invented electricity and routers.on a side note... I actually DO plan on learning how to do them by hand... but just because I want to know how. I don't want to do ALL my dovetail joints by hand. Thus the incra.LostOne
Edited 1/11/2005 9:11 pm ET by LostOne
I cut them by hand FIRST, then bought the jig. Over an eight year period I sold about 400 hope chests, thats when I bought the kellar jig. I still think it's the best on the market, simple and never gets out of adjustment. The Incra looks like a nightmare to me, but then a dovetail saw, marking knife and a chisel are all you really need.
You are right about marking knife saw and chisel,I am still learning but just how much fun can a guy have. Back to the Keller,is it basic or what? I'm really basic when it comes to instructions. Any help?
In the early '90's I was building blanket chests by the bunch, ( I sold about 400 in 5 years). After cutting the dovetails by hand on the first few, I went with a Kellar jig and could not have been happier! Not only is it fool proof, (no collars, adjustment, etc.), it really does mimic hand cut ones quite well. I know all the arguments about fixed spacing and all but in most cases it is not an issue. And, you can adjust the spacing, it is just a bit slower as you have to move the jig. In the end it is really the most flexable due to the simplicity. Buy one and you will not regret it.
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