Replies

1. 
   Rickk | Sep 11, 2006 01:40pm | #1

   Before buying the porter cable,go to their web site & download the instructions,IF you can follow then go for it.I had the omnijig which should be called something else. After a bit of research I went with the Keller Jig,some limitations but what it does,it does well,and a WHOLE LOT eaiser than the P.C.     Later Rickkk

1. 
   Napie | Sep 11, 2006 05:57pm | #2

   Here's another vote for the Kellar Jig.  I built 400+ hope chests in about eight years with one and it NEVER let me down.  It is just a great tool, period.

2. 
   rjones69 | Sep 13, 2006 03:43am | #9

   I am just curious as to the limitations of the keller system?

1. 
   Rickk | Sep 13, 2006 02:10pm | #11

   Their are a few different models,I have the 1601.Its limitation is to thickness of material,.125 to .750. And I'm not sure about the others but pin spacing is pre set,which makes it easy to use.Go to Keller.com.           Later  Rickkk

1. 
   rjones69 | Sep 13, 2006 03:35pm | #12

   Rickk,

   Thanks that's good to know up front.  I guess if I need to go thicker maybe I just cut them myself:) 

   Thanks again,

   Ron

2. 
   K1500 | Sep 14, 2006 02:38am | #15

   IIRC it won't do blind dovetails and requires a special bearing guided bit.  #1 doesn't matter if you don't need them and who really cares about #2.  The PC jig requires a specific (but not bearing guided) bit as well.

1. 
   MattInPA | Sep 14, 2006 04:19pm | #16

   I am a hobbyist and was delighted when I bought my Leigh jig 2 years ago. The instruction book is its best asset and should not a be deterrent. It has a bad reputation solely due to the number of pages, but it's only because it's as thorough as every instruction manual should be.

   The first drawers and case that I worked on came out perfectly.  The few things I used it on since have been A+ too. Howerver, After reading a few user comments on the New Yankee Workshop page about how Norm inspired them "to learn dovetail joinery," I was inspired to actually learn dovetail joinery (and to get a subscription here.)

   To date, for me as a hobbyist, learning how to do this with chisels, a saw, etc.  has been the most rewarding experience of my hobby. I am currently sitting on $500 worth of Leigh merchandise that I could unload on ebay for $275. I'm choosing to keep it only because there is an outside chance that I choose this as a profession a few years down the road. I imagine this jig is worth every penny to the professional shop and would be my recommendation to them. It's pretty easy to use once you've spent 3 hours with it. However, I wish I spent my $$ on new chisels, a nice marking gauge that didn't dent when tightened, and a saw with the teeth sharpened correctly that was comfortable to hold.

   I'm in between projects right now and spent last night sharpening my hand saws for a few hours with a little Bob Dylan on in the background. Great time, very fulfilling. Tonight I hone a few chisels. Can't wait to start another project.

   The good thing about all this is that learning Mortise and Tennon Joinery cost me $150 for two wonderful ray iles mortise chisels (which unexplainably are my favorite of all tools that I own, seriously) instead of $100 for the tennoning jig and $400 for the mortiser. But I digress...

2. 
   cadiddlehopper | Sep 12, 2006 01:23am | #3

   I have the PC 4212 & all the goodies that go with it. My first joint was perfect. It was the first machined dovetail joint I had ever made. Reading the instructions may be confusing if the tool isn't present, but I don't see anything difficult about the tool except holding the wood in place while clamping it in the vertical position. I guess that is difficult with any jig. Be aware that the 4210 doesn't do through dovetails, the 4212 does. PC recommends having 2 routers available, if possible when dovetailing. I managed with one. The routers must have 1/2-inch collets & must use PC guide bushings, according to PC. Hope my comment is of value to you.

   Cadiddlehopper

3. 
   art | Sep 12, 2006 02:12am | #4

   MLCS has some templates that are similar to the Keller ones and are quite a bit less expensive. I've used it with satisfactory results on a couple of projects. Art

4. 
   Woodmaster1776 | Sep 12, 2006 08:55am | #5

   I bought the Porter Cable 4212 jig last year. It does all right as long as you mill extra wood for test pieces and make the necessary adjustments. A video at the Porter Cable web site indicates the jig will do considerably more than the manual would lead you to believe, although they may have a manual supplement available for download. However, because of the jig's limitations I decided to learn to hand cut dovetails. A bit of practice with a Japanese Dozuki saw and a chisel, and now the Porter Cable jig sits idle. But different strokes for different folks...

   Bob

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/12/2006 1:55 am by Woodmaster1776

1. 
   citrouille | Sep 13, 2006 01:21am | #6

   I have had the Akeda jig since it came out, I use it only if I have to make a lot of drawers.
   The Akeda is incremental (that's why I choose it), that makes it easier to set up and use.
   The 1/8" increments have never been a problem for me.
   The manual is clear and well made.I like it !C.

1. 
   jrogerh | Sep 29, 2006 04:14am | #17

   I recently purchased an Akeda jig.  I have read the instructions, set it up and am ready to make some test cuts.  One thing I immediately noticed was that I could not see the router bit location with respect to the guide fingers.  The view is blocked by the guide bushing.  Since cutting the tails is not strictly a "track to the guides" kind of cut,  I have to "go by feel" according to the Akeda technical expert.  Have you had any trouble avoiding cutting between the guide fingers while feeling for the next guide?

1. 
   citrouille | Sep 29, 2006 01:25pm | #18

   Yes, I forgot to mention that, I made a mark on the outer edge of the router base, in the center, I put a piece of masking tape on the jig where I can see it when I start, there I mark the center of the guides, I match both marks up and start routing.C.

1. 
   jrogerh | Sep 29, 2006 08:31pm | #20

   Thanks much.  Good to know others have the same problem.  I will certainly try your advanced technology approach using the masking tape.

2. 
   jrogerh | Oct 02, 2006 11:48pm | #22

   I tried your method of marking and it worked great.  Thanks a lot.

3. 
   citrouille | Oct 03, 2006 12:03am | #23

   You are welcome, how do you like the jig so far ?C.

4. 
   jrogerh | Oct 03, 2006 12:13am | #24

   I think I am going to really like it when I get more experience using it.  I ran a test case using 1/2 "plywood and 3/4 " poplar stock which I plan to use for some night stand drawers.  The plywood showed very little breakout.  The only problem I had was determining the depth of cut for the pins.

2. 
   hopeful | Dec 31, 2006 06:44pm | #25

   I'm impressed with the dust collection feature of the Akeda. I do not own a dovetail jig but am considering buying the Akeda because of it's dust collection feature. How have you found it to work?

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 02, 2007 03:54pm | #27

   I have an Akeda. I prefer to do hand DTs, but if I need a bunch of drawers in a hurry, I'll sometimes opt for power tools. <G> I like the Akeda because of it's modular spacing system. It's pretty easy to set up accurately and the clamping system is pretty good as well. It a fairly "vanilla" unit though, so if you want to get fancy, you'll want one of the more versatile systems.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

2. 
   citrouille | Jan 05, 2007 10:50pm | #28

   The dust collecting system works just as advertised.
   If you don't wnat to spend hours setting up a jig, Akeda is the best of the variable spacing kind.C.

5. 
   wilkinsr | Sep 13, 2006 02:54am | #7

   I've got a Leigh. I like it, but unless you are in a production environment, learn to cut them by hand. I've got fourteen drawers to do, then I'm going to get rid of it. I like it, but I always feel like I'm cheating. That's what happens when you get a dose of Norm desease and a big tax return.

1. 
   chopperpilotjeff | Sep 13, 2006 04:54am | #10

   Cicco,I've got the Leigh as well. I had the opportunity to try all kinds of jigs in different shops over the years: Craftsman, Omni, P-C, etc. They all have their pros and cons. Haven't used the Keller. I've always handcut dovetails when working with thick material or doing short runs, so even when I'm using a jig, I don't want it to look 'machined.' That's what steered me towards the Leigh.To be honest, the idea of setting up the jig sometimes sends me to my hand tools. I even cheat some of the tail cuts on the bandsaw for thick stuff. However, after I set it up and started routering on the Leigh, get out of the way! I want to dovetail everything. Line up a bunch of work and go to town. Once you've mastered the 'fingers,' you will be very happy with the creative license of that jig. As Wilkinsr said, I feel like I'm cheating.Some pointers:
   -Get the 24" one: it's great for chests.
   -I use long cure epoxy (West System) for most assembly. PVA wood glue doesn't give you enough time.
   -I always use 2 or 4 flute carbide end mills for the pin work -- clean and efficient cutting.I have the MMT jig (multiple mortise and tenon) for it, but I've only used it once. I'm not sure I would recommend it.I've had mine for most of 20 years and still love it, so bring on the questions.Jeff

1. 
   bones | Sep 13, 2006 08:01pm | #13

   I have never cut dovetails by hand, but decided to get the Leigh 24". I am doing a cedar chest for my niece and wanted to add a special touch.  I am a hobyist, and after viewing the video and making a test box, I went to town.  Works like a charm. It is trouley variable.  When I was deciding between all the different types, one drawback mentioned was the need for a test cut.  I will agree the first cut is necesarry to dial it in for perfection. They suggest a 5th board (for a 4 board box) to do the test. I myself , just leave one board a few inches long, and cut it to the right size after I get it right.  I have not had to do more that a few thou adjustment on the pins to get it right (never cut the pins to short  requiring them to be cut off and restarting). I have found as I have done more now, I can get it right in a couple of passes. Love it and will use it a lot.  For my next step, I want to learn to do the bear's ears. I think they are cool. 

1. 
   chopperpilotjeff | Sep 13, 2006 11:39pm | #14

   Bones,Super! Sounds like you're a dovetailin' dude now. I think that once you've done a cedar chest and successfully assembled four 18" joints which resulted in a square box, you've either got it mastered or you're one lucky individual. :-)Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to think you're good.It doesn't matter how many times I use my jig, I always cut samples. I've never seen it as a drawback as it's always a good practice for any important cut. Like yours, they're usually just fine; maybe a minor adjustment if any. If the wood I'm using is too precious to have 'scrap,' then I just mill a similar board from the wood bin to the same specs when I'm making my stock. Usually I end up creating a few extra items whenever I set up the jig. From my 'scrap' setup practice, I've made shadow boxes and wall mounted display boxes (for gifts if I don't need them) as well as bases for mounting tools and jigs on my bench with the bench clamp. A beautiful dovetail oak clamp base for my buffing motor might look like overkill, but it's no big effort if it's my 'sample cut.'Of course, I'm just a dovetail nut!Jeff

6. 
   Neil | Sep 13, 2006 03:05am | #8

   I actually have both jigs.  The Keller will run rings around the Porter Cable.  Not that the PC is bad, it's that the Keller is much faster and requires little or no set up.  It seems like a lot of monye for a plastic template, but it works.

    

   Neil

7. 
   Kaleo | Sep 29, 2006 01:44pm | #19

   I agree with some of the posts here. I have only ever used a P.C. jig. And it work like a charm. But I got the feeling like already stated that I was cheating. I soon found out that with practice I can cut a really elegent thin pinned dovetail pretty fast. That is something that a jig can not do. You will only ever get a 1:6 or 1:7 dovetail. Where I think that a 1:10 looks so nice, and hand done. I don't care what jig you use, you can always tell that they have been machined.

   Kaleo

   http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com

1. 
   colebearanimals | Jan 15, 2007 01:21am | #29

   They're both very strong joints though.

    

                          Always have fun working wood, Paul

8. 
   gmoney | Sep 30, 2006 03:35am | #21

   i have both the porter-cable 4212 and the leigh.  i've used the leigh with success for many projects.  i bought the pc for speed and found out that i really don't like the look of the dovetails it makes and i consquently use it minimally if at all now.  like many posters here i'm learning to cut them by hand now, but am not averse to using the leigh when i feel like it.

9. 
   Napie | Dec 31, 2006 07:31pm | #26

   Best jig in the world, a good saw and a set of sharp chisels.  Second best, any of the Kellar jigs.  I built over four hundred blanket chests with a Kellar Model 2400, these were a production item and the jig really cut time. The rest of the jigs available are just way to fussy, you can learn to hand cut them in the time it takes to understand the manuals and set them up.