I’m looking to buy my first dovetail saw and am seeking advice — straight handled (“gents style”) or the type with a handle like a regular backsaw? I like to stay with the western style (cut on the push stroke) with rip teeth.
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Replies
Hi Joel,
I just took a dovetail class from Andy rae. I ended up getting a dozuki from lee valley (replaceable blade) for about $40 at the woodworking show where the class was. I tried out a few styles of dovetail saws but the dozuki felt like I was cutting butter...thin kerf, good power with pull stroke and it felt effortless. I have used it on a couple basic projects here and it has worked like a dream. I recommend it for cost, ease of use and comfort. Have fun with it if you chooswe to go that way-Eric in L.A.
I have a Japanese saw and it cuts like butter, although the blade does tend to flex more than I would like. So, from the other camp, I think I will be getting a dedicated dovetail saw. I think what is determined to be the "best" comes down to what you can get the best cuts from, with the best feel. I have used a few different saws, including the Lie-Nielsen at the Woodworking Show a couple of weeks ago. That was really nice, but the handle is a bit small for my hand. I may try a gent's saw with the straight handle, but I suspect that it will be harder to keep the blade parallel to the top of the edge. If someone developes good saw skills, it won't matter what kind of saw it is. It's more a matter of what they are comfortable with and mastering the technique with that saw.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I have a Japanese saw and it cuts like butter, although the blade does tend to flex more than I would like.I use them and the BEST! However, I have been known to clamp the blade with a hardwood strip on both sides (Yep, some bolts and wing nuts) to keep it from flexing.. Strips near the teeth as in a depth gauge..Thanks for the spell check or I mess this one up a bit!
I prefer the backsaw type handle. That is why I semi-retired my Stanley straight handle model, and use the Lie-Nielsen. The LN is somewhat of an investment at around $130.00, but as one would expect at that price, it preforms excellent right out of the box. If you don't mind at little tune up, any saw could be made to work as well as the LN. Since you want a rip cut, filing the teeth is very easy ( not that crosscut filing is difficult), so you could buy a saw and file the teeth to the rip configuration. On my Stanley, I used a small hammer to remove the set, which isn't necessary for cutting the typical drawer dovetails. Removing the set will make the saw track accurately.
Rob Millard
I have used basically every type of saw to cut dovetails- gents, pistol grip western, dozuki. The best one for my money is the Japanese rip tooth Dozuki from Lee Valley:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48338&cat=1,42884
It's $72- less than many other saws. I find it is easy to control, follows the line easily and is a pleasure to use. Remember that dovetailing is a ripping operation.
Glaucon
Wow--I've been sold on the Odate dovetail saw that Tools for Working Wood sells for $40. What do you think of that one in comparison?CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I haven't tried that one- is it western or Dozuki? I find that the ripping Dozuki works better than the standard. For me the Dozuki works better than a western saw- but I know others who prefer the western.
Glaucon
I strongly prefer Japanese as well. The Odate is a "modified" rip tooth, designed for a cross between ripping and crosscutting--exactly what dovetailing is. Works better than anything else I'VE tried, but I haven't tried that rip dozuki. Always wanted to, though.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Joel
As with Rob, I have both Lie Nielsen saws (cross and rip). They're pricey, but you get what you pay for. Both are excellent, and cut like butter.
Jeff
Joel
Your post doesn't say where you live. Is there a store near you where you can try out the Dozuki? The thinner blade, flush tooth pattern and hard blade teeth for long use between sharpening makes it a winner in my opinion. I also got mine from http://www.leevalley.com about ten years ago.
Cheers
Mac
Thanks for all the responses. At this point I'd like to go with a western style saw that I can learn to sharpen. I'm down to a few options. 1) LN ; 2) Adria ; and 3) get either a new Crown or Pax and get it sharpened rip or 4) find a flea market saw and get it sharpened rip. Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated.
Thanks again,
Joel
PS I'm in the Los Angeles area.
Jeff- how long have you had the L-N saws and have you needed to resharpen them yet? I went to the WW show and tried their saws and they definitely cut well.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
highfigh
I've had them just over two years, and have not resharpened them. I don't use them every day, but I do use them frequently, and they still cut very well. Sometime this year, I'm gonna have to send them in to get sharpened.
Jeff
Joel,I bought an Adria to tackle my first set of handcut dovetails. I'm now on drawer 8 out of 10. So I'm a beginner. But I have a few thoughts. The Adria seems like a beautifully made tool. It feels good to hold it. It cuts where I aim it... problem is, of course, knowing just how to aim it as I meander up the learning curve. At least I can't blame the saw. It has a stiff blade, which might be good for a beginner. I can feel it bind when I'm not relaxed or when I unconsciously begin to veer. I'm not sure how a thinner more pliable blade would signal back to you along the way. And being a Western saw, it cuts on the push stroke which I find to be an advantage for the following reason... I can put the outside surface of the drawer side in the vice so that it faces me. If there is any tearout from the push stroke, it will happen on the inside surface of the drawer side, which will be well hidden when the drawer is assembled. So I get to keep my eye on the money side -- the outside -- of the drawer side. Hope that made sense. I'm in Los Angeles, too. Faircrest Heights, Pico Robertson area. Anyway, good luck on the dovetails. It's a great feeling when something fits well, even if that's a rarity at first.
You might look on E-bay, I've purchased two backsaws from vendors there, both are older (somewhere between 1860 and 1880) Disstons. They ran about $28 - 35.I like the configuration of the older saw handles. L-N's are also configured the same way.One comment on cast steel saws -- they dull faster than modern steels. Also, check carefully for rust if you're buying a used saw, pitting will do bad things to the teeth.Leon Jester
Leon, That's the first time I've heard that said of cast steel. In fact I've heard just the opposite: that the older saws, chisels, what have you - were made of better steel.
Comment was based on my experiences only. I've the cast steel ones and a Tyzak that's about fifteen years old.That said, the more modern panel and rip saws I've got appear to be more brittle -- I've had to have them re-toothed more often than the older ones, particularly the rip saws. Work practises may well enter into the equation, when I've used the older saws I seem to be cutting pecan or a similarly hard wood. I use the newer ones -- that I don't like as much -- on woods that I suspect may harbour either very hard knots or metal.All in all, I prefer the older saws, primarily because of the fit of the handles. I've got a new 12-pt Disston crosscut that can raise a blister on my hand at ten yards. Hate using it. One of these days I'll buy a junker with a good handle and re-bore the 12-pt to accept it.Leon Jester
I've got one of those Tyzak DT saws (~22 TPI) from about 20 years ago. I like it and I've bought several of it's forebears. Old Tyzaks.
Naturally, being of a notoriously frugal nature, I would go with an old saw, get it sharpened once, right, then learn to keep it sharp. I have several decent old backsaws that several people have compared side by side with the L-N saws, and most of those who've tried both prefer mine, simply because they sre sharpened well and have nice handles.
As long as a saw fits your hand well it's the sharpening and the set that determines performance. The steel all has to be soft enough to sharpen with a file, so the differences between quality saws would be slight. As far as I can tell, the new saws have little to offer over the old saws, other than pride of overpaying - er, ownership. <G>
Michael R
To answer your first question, I find the pistol-grip backsaw easier to control. Having the index finger alongside the grip makes it naturally "point" into the cut.
Other notes: I started learning with a dozuki because it cut easily and I got good results. Western style saws seemed harder to start for me.
Later, I took a hand tool course using a Crown gent's saw. The Crown tool works very well if it is properly sharpened. Anyway, having tried all three, the saw I grab first is a L/N dovetail saw.
D
While I also prefer the pull type saws, I will admit, I was very impressed with the LN saw. I tried it at the woodworking show, and it felt very good. It is the first saw that made me consider going back. I doubt I will since I am happy with the saws I currently have, but I would feel comfortable recommending the LN saw.
Hi Joel. For my technique you are right on the money. Buy a western style saw with rip teeth. Don't get too worried about a thin kerf, a small amount of set is what you are after. A saw with slight set will track much straighter than a large set saw. Peter
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