Replies

1. 
   Eef | Jan 15, 2010 10:40am | #1

   good morning dp,

   doweling face frames was my preferred method for quite some time and i never had a problem come back to haunt me for doing things this way. then along came the "face maker" pocket screw system, around about the late eighties, and i switched to that. never had a problem with that system either. now i join face frame stile to rail via the "kreg" pocket screw technique and it works just fine. once stile and rail are firmly joined and then the face frame is glued and clamped to the cabinet boxes, all will be well.

   eef

2. 
   spotcheck | Jan 15, 2010 11:02am | #2

   Dowels work fine, pocket screws work fine. I always used biscuits - with the face frame cutter, of course. I never invested in the pocket screw jigs, but betcha those are fast and accurate. I found the biscuits much more forgiving in alignment than the dowels I had used previously.

   The other thing I have done in the past for painted is to make it as simple as possible, and put a dowel vertically through the rail, presenting long-grain wood for a couple screws through the edge of the stile into the dowel in the rail. Not high-class-fine-woodworking, but since I was painting them, I didn't care - putty, sand, paint.

1. 
   Eef | Jan 15, 2010 12:10pm | #5

   abiding dude,

   forgot about biscuits!

   early on i had some trouble with "telegraphing" when using biscuits so reluctance set in and eventually led to just not using 'em much. used to do entire kitchen face frame doweling with a hand-held jig. i do not miss those days...

   eef

3. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 15, 2010 11:50am | #3

   Dowels work! It takes skill to make them all fit to their mate,,,

4. 
   JeffHeath | Jan 15, 2010 12:06pm | #4

   I think you will find that pocket screws are much easier to use. The kreg jig is an inexpensive tool you can buy to make the pockets, and there are no alignment issues, as with dowels. If you're dowel holes are off just a wee bit, that can make your face frames off by the same amount. With the pocket hole system, it's glue and clamp, screw, and you're done.

   Jeff

5. 
   bill5335 | Jan 15, 2010 12:49pm | #6

   Do yourself a favor and use pocket screws. With dowels you will need to clamp every joint. OK if you have just a few face frames, but pretty soon you may run out of clamps.

   Pocket screws need no additional clamping.

   I've found that pocket screws are fast and accurate.

   Bill

6. 
   flairwoodworks | Jan 15, 2010 02:44pm | #7

   I, too, would recommend the pocket screws. Just mind the creep when you drive the screw. When screwing the two pieces together, the angled screw has the tendency to pull the two pieces out of alignment unless clamped securely.

7. 
   bduffin104 | Jan 16, 2010 12:41am | #8

   Dowels work great for face frames and is how we used to do them. We also used a stiffener behind the horizontal rails which made the frames very strong and flat. I install a lot of cabinets and most makers have gone to the pocket screws which is nice if you have to do any jobsite remodeling to the cabinets, which happens frequently.

1. 
   GRW | Jan 16, 2010 07:38am | #9

   I've always used motise and
   I've always used motise and tenons. Takes some time, but my customers expect/pay more for hand crafted work than they get from the box stores. In time I plan on getting a Domino tool for FF joinery. But I do agree, dowels are strong enough. I'm a little hard headed, and haven't been turned on by pocket screws yet.

8. 
   salamfam | Jan 16, 2010 09:02am | #10

   I have made dozens of face frames using a good old half lap. They are fast to make, easy to assemble, and strong. I make the shoulder cuts on the table saw and the cheek cuts on the band saw. For pieces that intersect at other than an end, I simply make multiple passes with the shoulder set up on the table saw.

9. 
   weatherfordscreation | Jan 16, 2010 09:25am | #11

   dowels will work fine for what you are doing. I would recommend tryng a motise and tenon in the future especially on stained faces