Replies

1. 
   SCFrankland | May 29, 2002 04:19pm | #1

   Why not use a router with a down cut spiral router bit?

   Scott C. Frankland

   Newfoundland Wood Worker

2. 
   TERRE5 | May 29, 2002 04:19pm | #2

   I doubt that you will see downward shear drill bits.  Why dont you make yourself a jig to use with a plunge router and guide bushing and use a downshear spiral router bit? 

   I do and it's fast and easy.  If you have a variable speed mid-size plunger, that's even better. 

1. 
   kcg99999 | May 29, 2002 04:36pm | #3

   Hi Guys, The spacing jig I use (Veritas) is set up for drill bits.

   Regards,

   Kim Carleton Graves Carleton Woodworking

1. 
   crosscutter | May 29, 2002 05:02pm | #4

   Kim, Have you thought about using those sleeves they sell for the shelf pin holes. They come in various finishes and will hide the tear out not to mention they are quite decorative. Rocklers sells them for their jigs. perhaps veritas has a simular product

3. 
   sschefer | May 29, 2002 06:08pm | #5

   Hi Kim, For some reason the company name eludes me at the moment, but I know they make a tapered bit that works very well with veneers. Of course this now makes it a two part process since you'll need to drill to diameter with the tapered bit then to depth with the brad point. They might mess up your jig too. Now if you really want to speed up the process, then make up a bunch of long 3/4 by 3/8" hardwood strips and use your jig to drill holes along the entire length. Save one as your template and make a bunch of them for the future. Then cut a 3/4 x 3/8 dado in the cabinet sides and glue the strips in. I've actually gotten compliments on what appears to be extra detail work. Little did they know.. 

   Steve - in Northern California

   
   

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   Edited 5/29/2002 11:26:48 AM ET by Steve Schefer

   
   

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   Edited 5/29/2002 11:28:18 AM ET by Steve Schefer

4. 
   Andrew | May 29, 2002 06:23pm | #6

   Kim, what drill bits are you using right now? I recently picked up a carbide tipped brad point bit from lee valley which has never given me any problems with tearout, in plywood or solid. i run the bit fairly fast, and if i think tearout will be a problem i don't put a lot of pressure on the bit at first so it can score the surface.

   another option would be to find a downcut endmill, and chuck that in your drill press. your sharpening service might be able to regrind a brad point profile on the end if it doesn't cut clean enough. hope this helps

   andrew

5. 
   lwilliams | May 29, 2002 06:24pm | #7

   Kim,

   Ballew saw and tool http://ballewtools.com/ has some industrial bits that have spurs and the initial 1/4" or so of flute is parallel to the shank. These bits will do what you want. You'll find the guys on the other end of their 800 number knowledgeable and helpful.

6. 
   observer | May 29, 2002 06:25pm | #8

   Never heard of them but I think clearing the chips from the hole would be a problem if you could find one.

   What about chucking a down spiral router bit in your drill?

7. 
   StanleyNiemiec | May 29, 2002 11:38pm | #9

   It sounds to me like there are no/insufficient spurs on the bit or that they need to be sharpened.

   I have a 1/4" brad point bit that has spurs on it like the spurs on an auger.  I wish I could remember the brand or where I got it because it works very well and is something I use only for the peg holes.  Instead of being a straight angle across the face of the bit, it appears as if there is a concave groove milled into the bit.  The only markings on the bit indicate that it was made in Austria.

   I checked my Woodcraft catalog.  This one (god knows how outdated it is) lists two bit types that might solve your problem.  The first is a Forstner 1/4" bit (at $11) and the second they call a Vortex-D HSS brad point (@$9).

   If those are unacceptable, you might buy a 1/4" auger; cut off the square part that fits into a brace and file off the threads on the drive point so that it won't self feed.

   Brad point bits are a bear to keep sharp.  I have yet to find someone to sharpen them so I am forever (seemingly) touching them up with various curved stones (points) or with small files.

8. 
   Hempstalk | May 30, 2002 09:48am | #10

   Lee Valley sells very sharp brad points.  These bits are HSS that have been resharpen on CNC equipment.  Probably not the easiest to resharpen.  They'll work great.  Sold as a set or individually.

9. 
   woodrae | May 30, 2002 07:36pm | #11

   Kim—

   Nice to see ya here! (Your work is lovely, by the way.)

   It seems to me that a downward-spiral bit would pose more problems than it would solve, with chips being forced into the hole instead of out, resulting in even more blowout.

   In one cabinet shop I worked suns and moons ago, we used much automated machinery for our custom kitchen work. One tool, an Ayers line-boring machine, had a row of brad-point bits that drilled crisp, super-clean holes into veneered plywood and—the ultimate test—into melamine-coated particleboard (MCP). I remember watching the automated movement of the bits as they entered the stock. Spinning at gazillions of rpms, the bits would enter the stock super slow and, once through the first 32nd inch of material, would speed up and move downward at a fair clip to drill the holes to depth.

   When I drill holes in my one-man shop, I try to replicate that drilling action. I use Lee Valley’s HSS brad points (man! they are so sharp, even the edges of the flutes that spiral up the bit are enough to slice skin when held gingerly, not to mention the cutting spurs at the end of the bits), and regardless of my drilling methodology (drill press; hand drill; hand drill with jig) I start real slow to score the surface. Once through, I speed up and drill to final depth.

   Granted, this slow-then-fast drilling procedure is a hand-eye-brain action that takes practice, but once mastered, it’s easy for your body to duplicate it again and again for drilling multiple holes.

   One tip: For shelf and other holes in high-end work—veneered or solid—I use a wood-handled chamfer bit (yup; Lee Valley again) and twist it into all the holes by hand with one or two—but equal—revolutions to cut the sharp edges. While it doesn’t produce a visible chamfer, this extra step leaves a very clean look.

   —Andy

10. 
    rslatm | May 31, 2002 06:22pm | #12

    Such a thing doesn't exist. I already knew that but checked my industrial sources just to make sure I didn't miss a new development. Nice try but you have to go back to the problem and approach it from a different angle.  One way is to use a sacraficial board under your jig or that router jig on the market will work. You bring back memories of when we were going through the same problem 20 years ago.  I'm not really sure what your set up is but my suggestion is to contact someone like fuller and let them solve the problem for you. Put the burden on someone else while you focus on what you do best.  I prefer to use my suppliers to do their share and solve my problems as much as possible.

11. 
    NATESKEY | May 31, 2002 07:44pm | #13

    Hello Kim, saw your request for downward spiral brad points and while I don't know where to locate them, you could use a router bit setup with downward spirals.   I have spoken with the folks at Jesada before and they are always looking to design new bits, and already have a good supply of spiral bits in various sizes. They may be willing to do a bit for shelf pins. You can reach them at:   [email protected]

12. 
    sschefer | May 31, 2002 07:48pm | #14

    Kim, check out the wood rat at http://www.woodrat.com. This might just be the ticket.

    Steve - in Northern California

13. 
    PlaneWood | Jun 02, 2002 01:20am | #15

    Can't use forstner bits??

    PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
    PlaneWood

1. 
   Adrian | Jun 02, 2002 07:48pm | #16

   I don't think you will do beter than the industrial brad points made for the industrial boring machines, as has been mentioned......also second the comment about trying to match how the industrial machines slow down until they are through the surface.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

14. 
    TheOldCynic | Jun 04, 2002 07:17am | #17

    Sounds like your bit is getting dull.  If you really want a "downward-spiral brad point bit", just put the one you have now in your cordless drill. set it on reverse, and go at it.

    Lacking a good and/or sharp bit, two things to try:

    -Slow the feed rate until you're through the surface;

    -Clamp a piece of scrap in front of the good pieceand drill through both at once.

1. 
   observer | Jun 04, 2002 06:44pm | #18

   If you really want a "downward-spiral brad point bit", just put the one you have now in your cordless drill. set it on reverse, and go at it.

   LOL

1. 
   cuttoff | Jun 04, 2002 06:52pm | #19

   OK, admit it, how many times have you said, "Jeeze this bit's dull" only to realize the drill motor is in reverse... I have done it more times than I can count. LOL.Expressions Fine Wood Working and Cabinetry..A division of Schefer Engineering Inc., Santa Rosa, Ca.

1. 
   TheOldCynic | Jun 05, 2002 06:45am | #20

   Yup.  Been there.  Done that.

   Didn't get my tee-shirt though.

   Doc