Drafting pencil used as marking knife
Fine woodworking published this tip and I really like it.
Remove the lead from a drafting lead holder and replace with a drill bit with the flutes up into the lead holder. Grind,file,and hone the end of the drill bit till an ellipse appears on the bit shank. The tip of the drill bit will be scarey sharp. It severs wood fibers just great and can used both right and left. The final nice feature is, you turn the lead holder upside down and press your thumb on the spring loaded lead “holder jaws” and the drill bit drops down into the lead holder and you can put it in you pocket. You can’t put conventional marking knives into your pocket. Cost of lead holder is $4.00 and drill bit $1.25. Garret Wade and Veritas list their marking knives at BIG money.
Replies
Donc,
Don,
Pick up two old carbon steel carving knives at the flea market Grind two back to back furrows to the blade (With your Dremel tool)
Wrap the unwanted end of blade with a cloth and grip in a vise then SNAP it off
Grind each new knife to shape, but grind ONLY one bevel on each blade One RH one LH
The knife will not wander as it follows grain irregularities as a pointed scriber does. Stein
These carbon steel knives are getting scarce,
now that people have become wise to the fact that stainless steel is a poor substitute for good old carbon steel . (Ask your butcher)
(Of course if you leave it in dishwater for hours instead of wiping it off after use, better buy stainless and eat chunks of turkey on your sandwich)
Steinmetz
I don't think I made my original post quite clear. The drill bit is ground to an ellipse ,not a conical point. The angle that it's ground to is very steep. this will result in a knife edge for marking NOT a conical point that tears crossgrain. This is also the way draftsmen sharpened lead for drawing circles with a compass.
Don, Your 'scriber' may be fine if you build dollhouse furniture BUT,
if you are laying out pins and tails or marking moulding for a cope cut you'll need a flat blade to ride the thickness of the engineers bevel square to accurately hold the drawn blade perpendicular to the undulations of the moulding. A thin 'pin' won't cut it. The reason for the right and left hand bevel pair of knives, is to continue a 'scribe'with no deviation due to grain 'run out'and to bring the marker tight up to the guide.(The blade has thickness) Stein.
Edited 7/19/2005 11:59 pm ET by steinmetz
Steinmetz,
You can pick up a lot of old knives at restaurant suppliers that also sharpen butchers knives. I have a place near buy that has several boxes on the counter for a buck or two...carving, boning, etc. Also, many places where you buy bait for fishing will have some butcher knives for a couple of bucks too.
I want to recycle my disposable planner knives..if I can just figure out a handle...
Why "grind, hone, and file" a drill bit when the pocket knife you have in your pocket or in your shop apron will do just as well?
"You can't put a marking knife in your pocket" Why would you ever want to? Of course, you can put one in your shop apron or simply lay it on the bench. If you use a simple pen knife then none of this is a problem.
It's amazing how far people will go to re-invent the wheel. A marking knife is a marking knife. Use one, and use it as such or use your pocket knife. Looking around the shop for objects made of tool steel so that you can dick around with a bench grinder is just another excuse not to get a project wrapped up.
Why replicate what you *should* already own?
The leadholder-cum-marking knife? I don't think so.
Edited 1/13/2005 2:50 pm ET by cstan
A pen knife is not a marking knife. The lead holder/ground bit bit IS a marking knife.
A leadholder with a ground drill bit is a tool produced by the bloke who never gets past building stuff for his shop or has otherwise gone off on some odd tangent.
Don't know about you, but I use my leadholder to hold lead for drafting and sketching. I don't believe I've ever found myself with a spare leadholder lying about.
I can also state with reasonable certainty that the relatively lightweight 'chuck' of a leadholder is going to wear out pretty quickly if used with gusto as a marking knife. In other words - it ain't gonna hold up. I've replaced more than one leadholder because it wouldn't hold a drafting lead. This whole project is a waste of time.
Don, unplug your bench grinder.
Edited 1/13/2005 4:13 pm ET by cstan
My drafting pencils are the Pentels' that use lead diameters of 0.5mm, 0.7mm, or 0.9mm. I'm not sure where I would get a drill bit that small and even if I could I wouldn't be able to see it clearly enough to know if I was grinding an ellipse. - lol
When I want to use a blade to mark or score something, I grab one of my utility knives and thumb the blade out........make my mark..........thumb the blade back in.........lay it on the bench..............and lose it! - lol
Hi Dave,
The drafting pencils you are referring to are Mechanical thumb advance pencils. A lead holder I am referring to holds leds of 5/64" dia.
Yer a young guy and has not seen the ol' fashion lead holder. Give my advice a try. Buy the ol' fashion and enjoy the usage and signifigant savings. "Signifigant" is the key word.
Young guy, huh? It's been years since anyone called me that. - lol I took my first architectural drawing class in '63 and we used wood pencils with 2H and 6H lead. We sharpened them on a board with sandpaper on it.
This old dawg has managed to learn a few new tricks over the years though. I almost never draw anything on paper anymore. I started using CAD software in the mid-80's and have been an AutoCad freek for several years now. I can't remember the last time I had to sharpen my mouse or keyboard. - lol
Sorry Dave,
I too like CAD. Been teaching it for 14 years. Ya still gotta get the lead holder for 5/64 lead, enjoy.
BTW, In 63 I also took my first drafting class. hehe
Edited 1/14/2005 12:07 am ET by DONC4
No apologies needed. Maybe I'll get carded next time I go into the tavern................NOT!!! - lol
Donc4,
I was comming out of wood shop when I heard Kennedy was shot.....
Twenty years later I arrived an hour early (by mistake) at the Kennedy museum for a meeting....decided to tour the facility, why not...wow, talk about the way we were...
"a tool produced by the bloke who never gets past building stuff for his shop or has otherwise gone off on some odd tangent."
Wow, you've described me well - my favorite projects are jigs, tools, or hand-made machines for my shop (or house) and I'm always on some odd tangent. But then I have a 9 to 5 (more like 8 to 7) which pays the bills, and I woodwork for distraction and pure pleasure. Odd tangents are the most distracting. I wonder what percentage of posters here are pure hobyists at woodworking, and how many of them would be offended at the derisive tone of your comment. If you don't like the poster's idea, fine. But your comment comes acorss as an insult, more like a personal shot, which I thought was not appropriate.
I might try that pencil / marking guage idea ... though I too question whether it will stand up to downward pressure applied when cutting. First I have to finish making my doublewide feather boards that I found I need to hold tall stock to the saw fence. Someday I will get to that bicycle powered lathe idea I been toying with ;)
I too spend too much time making things that never leave the shop. It's just a hobby.
That bicycle lathe is going to hurt when the dull gouge stops all motion and your feet fly off the pedals!
Hi cstan,
Yer kinda a negative fella aren't ya. It's o.k., I know guys like you. I predict you are very competent and productive. (Puts the paycheck on the kitchen table and good family man). I've learned alot from guys like you.
In this, you are dead wrong. You posted by E.S.P. (I guess) that I was a "bloke that never gets past building stuff." WRONG! I built my house single handed and all the furniture in it. 34 years as a woodshop/C.A.D./drafting teacher with a speciality in Federal and Queen Anne has resulted in a $550,000 house, interior not included. I have been published 24 times. (end of rant)
If you have trouble with a "slipping" jaw of a lead holder you should tighten it. Once tighten it can't slip! Obviously you don't know how to tighten it, nor do you know the difference between a marking knife and a pen knife.
You have 2 choices, continue to use the pen knife and post negative crapola, OR decide to become an enlightened. As an educator, I always opt for choice #2. and I am never rude to novice or expert. Lessons you have not learned.
Buddy, if you've got time to turn drill bits and leadholders into marking implements good on you.
Have at it and good luck.
I'd love to read some of the articles you've written. How about posting a bibliography?
Maybe you can make your next million repairing leadholders.
With all the building you've done over the years it's pretty astonishing that you don't have a settled routine for marking out. Maybe I'm not giving due consideration to the tip. Honestly, is a ground down drill bit really that good? If somebody as accomplished as you is impressed, maybe I'm missing the boat.
FWIW, I use a Japanese marking knife (given as a gift) on large joints. I mostly use a pen knife when marking halving for sash work. However, the pen knife (actually the small blade on a Wenger) makes a sweet little line. Once you get the hang of this stuff you don't have to make a line that goes halfway to China.
I love my Swiss Army knife. After I use it for marking out, I can open a bottle of wine with the corkscrew. If I get bored I can go outside and burn ants with the magnifying glass. I can trim my nose hair with the scissors and use the toothpick after eating a BBQ sandwich.
Can you do all this with your drill bit/leadholder contraption? :-)
Edited 1/14/2005 11:59 am ET by cstan
FWIW I use a good old #11 Xacto. When running with the grain a very light 1st pass usually keeps the line from following the grain.
I don't own a bench grinder, I know what a lead holders and pointers are, took my 1st drafting class (9th Grade) '70-71, hate CAD (as a designer), love CAD (as an engineering manager), never hated anything as much as learning to letter with plastic lead on Mylar in '75, except for maybe ink on linen or "Leroying" on anything. I do enjoy manual drafting with .35, .5 and .7 mm "Pentel" type pencils on good old 1000H vellum.
While I don't have my lead holders any more I do have two K&E scale take-off wheels, 3 bamboo scales and the same model Pickett slide rule that went to the moon. Sadly the directions are long gone and I don't remember how to use it.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Good God-
Dave,
Just like the good old days of FWW. Remember the furor raised by the article "The Right Way to Hang a Door"?
Me, I'm a pen knife fan. I've learned to hold it at an angle to get it tight against the straightedge. Used to have a tiny crochet needle that I ground the hook off of, kinda like the drill bit and holder, but I got tired to trying to keep up with it. I've been known to snatch up an exacto knife when the pen knife blade won't reach, or to use my carver's skew for a more robust scribe slicing veneer. Older I get the less it matters, cause I can't see the dam thing anyway!
Swiss army knives are for Boy Scouts! The corkscrew on mine broke off first time I tried to pull a Jack Daniel's barrel bung with it. The saw is too short for cutting firewood. Scissors won't cut galvanised roofing metal. And the knife blade is too short to reach a Rhino's heart, and flimsy when cutting vines and lianas. Just my opinion, of course. Leatherman tool is far superior.
Gotta love a diffrerence of opinion!!
Cheers,
Ray
Good God-.. LOL.. I'm falling off my puter chair on that one.....
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