Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 27, 2010 02:47pm | #1

   In general you want to run the grain of all solid wood drawer bottoms, including the narrower drawers, from side to side.  That way the expansion and contraction can be designed so it remains anchored to the drawer front, and is allowed to expand or contract at the rear of the drawer, where it is only held in place by a flexible fastening, such as a slotted screw hole.    This also means you can make the fit into the drawer sides relatively snug in depth, so that the bottom helps keep the drawer square. 

1. 
   artnumber1 | Apr 27, 2010 03:49pm | #2

   Drawer Bottom

   Thanks. I'm an amateur, so I just assumed that the boards would run front-to-back. That will certainly be easier than joining enough boards for a 30 inch width.

   Art Ricker

2. 
   user-86586 | Apr 27, 2010 08:51pm | #3

   Drawer Bottoms

   The end grain should meet the sides of the drawer. For a drawer that wide you might want to consider splitting it into two panels with a center rail/stile.

3. 
   RalphBarker | Apr 28, 2010 09:35am | #4

   function and design

   I agree with the others that the cross-grain expansion should be "aimed" at the back of the drawer, where it can be hidden behind the drawer back. In other words, the sides of the drawer bottom should be loose in the side dado, and not attached to the back, so they are free to move.

   How deep the side dado should be (and, how thich the drawer sides should be) is a function of what the drawers will hold. Half-inch drawer bottoms are pretty hefty, unless these are shop drawers. If the latter, I'd leave them full-thickness for strength. For most other uses, 1/4" plywood (available in various veneer species)  is usually sufficient, and more stable than solid wood.

4. 
   PSeverin | Apr 28, 2010 07:08pm | #5

   Bucking the old way

   Why not plywood.  Get a sheet of beautiful maple plywood and use it for the bottom.  It won't give you any problems with expansion and contraction over the seasons.  And it should even be stronger in the drawer fully supported on four edges.   Once people put papers, napkins and clothes in the drawer they will cease to be aware of what is actually there holding everything up.

   Obviously people take pride in the craft of using only solid wood.  But you are using a primary wood where many old timers would use some weaker. cheaper material.    Isn't that why they refer to secondary materials in a cabinet.   And in the end, for all the trouble, is a solid wood bottom really any better the the newer solution with newish materials?    

     Peter

1. 
   artnumber1 | Apr 29, 2010 01:58pm | #6

   Drawer Bottom

   I agree that plywood is what the original design called out. However, as I said, I'm an amatuer and I don't know if I will have an immediate use for a whole sheet of maple plywood. I currently have over a half sheet of some nice oak 1/4 inch plywood that I initiatialy thought of useing. The drawer sides and back are of maple. The carcase will be oak plywood and the drawer fronts and base are solid oak. Maybe I should just go ahead and use the oak ply for the drawer bottoms. Any thoughts? Incidentaly, the cabinet is a general use cabinet for in the house.

1. 
   Eef | Apr 29, 2010 02:28pm | #7

   art,

   ply vs. solid drawer bottoms can be one of those touchy subjects that we wws tiff over.  solid wood is traditional.  the look of an old drawer bottom that's had its edges tapered with a hand plane is heart warming.  your nice oak sheet stock is going to look great as well.

   eef

2. 
   user-64052 | Apr 29, 2010 04:19pm | #9

   when using solid wood, one always has to think for ways to have to material to move (expansion and contraction with humidity). in drawer construction the grain of the bottom should always run parallel to the front.  this way the drawer bottom  should sit in a groove on 3  surfaces-front and 2 sides and go under the rear partition and the old method was to just fasten the botttom to the rear partition with  a light nail, just to hold it in place. I have seen in some earlier British furniture  that it was installed (bottoms ) the other way and was tacked in on the sides and over the years it sucked the side of the drawers in.

   there are some things in earlier furniture that can be confusing. In most earlier  veneered case work in Britian the grain ran vertically eg; pianos, dressers and sideboards whatever while in N/A the grain has always run horizontally on theese items

   ron

5. 
   bones | Apr 29, 2010 03:45pm | #8

   I would strongly caution against orienting your bottoms so that your expansion will occur side-to-side.  I think you will see issues.   There are many ways to do bottoms and if you do a search FWW has numerous articles.   I myself run the grain out the back and go tight on the sides (only end-grain),  and put a slot with a single brass screw in and the back of the drawer rests on it, so when it moves there is nothing to bind it.    I use a whiteside router bit made for that purpose to make the slot (many other ways to do that as well).   You could use plywood which would be stable, but if its a nice piece, it would just seem wrong to me, but thats just me.   I tend to use soft maple for drawer sides/back/bottoms.   It's cheaper than hardmaple looks great against a dark wood and is stable.    Don't let the name fool you there's nothing soft about soft maple.   Poplar is another choice.  I've used that in painted pieces.  Below are just two of the ways.  The second is my preferred way. Anyway, good luck.  

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/fwnpdf/011009049.pdf

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/subscription/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=33293

1. 
   artnumber1 | Apr 30, 2010 03:19pm | #15

   Drawer Bottoms, et all

   Thanks, Bones. I appreciate the insight. Some have suggested that I use plywood bottoms, and that probably makes sense. However, I think I'll go with the maple bottoms. Maybe western Big Leaf Maple. I realy want to try some of the traditional methods, just for the practice. The other thought that came up after reading the article on Drawer Bottoms by Alan Marks, brings up another problem. The plans I'm working from, with some modifications, specify drawer slides rather than traditional drawers, riding on the drawer dividers. Unfortuneatly, two of  the interior dividers are plywood, and I don't think it would be a good idea to run 3/4 sides on plywood. The article by Marks have glides rather than the drawer sides riding on the dividers. That would give the drawers more surface area riding on the plywood.

   Thanks, Art

6. 
   bduffin104 | Apr 29, 2010 08:52pm | #10

   enamored with plywood

   I would argue that solid wood drawer bottoms where the traditional method because plywood hadn't been invented yet. I have a couple of antique furniture pieces with solid drawer bottoms and there seems to be a problem with most of them, either warping or splitting. It's difficult to make such large thin panels remain stable over the decades unless one uses high quality vertical grain woods and for most of us the bottom of a drawer is not where we would choose to spend our money.

   I can understand not wanting to buy a full sheet of plywood for one drawer bottom. Most of the big box stores sell partial sheets or try a local cabinet shop, I'm sure they would be happy to sell you a piece. If it was me, I'd buy the whole sheet. I know I'd find a use for it eventually.

   But be careful. I recently bought a sheet of 1/2" "maple" plywood and H. D. which turned out to be total garbage. Warped and delaminated as I cut it which proved to be dangerous also. Never seen plywood quite that bad before. Probably made in China.

   Bret

1. 
   user-64052 | Apr 29, 2010 10:49pm | #11

   Bret; I do not understand what you are saying here--""I would argue that solid wood drawer bottoms where the traditional method because plywood hadn't been invented yet.""

   there has always been people that can do a good job  and there has always been people that haven't done as good a job. that is why 'some" furniture has stood the test of time and a lots hasn't

   ron

1. 
   bduffin104 | Apr 30, 2010 12:45am | #12

   Ron, actually, I think we agree

   I apologize for not making myself more clear. What I was trying to say was that if not built properly or by not using the best woods then a thin, solid wood drawer bottom or similar large panel is prone to failure. I did not say that you couldn't build  good drawer bottom out of solid wood.

   But, for the sake of argument, what logical sense does it make to use a fragile, dimensionally unstable material for a drawer bottom when a stronger, dimensionally stable material is available? If quality, cabinet grade plywood had been available to the cabinetmakers of old, I think they would have used it, would you not agree?

   Relative to today, I think quality cabinet building materials were more expensive in centuries past. Most makers could only afford the use pine, or some other common wood.

   Bret

1. 
   user-64052 | Apr 30, 2010 02:12am | #13

   I personally don't use frafile, dimensionally unstable material for drawer bottoms. with proper understanding of materials and procedures one shouldn't have a problem with solid wood drawer bottoms

   they are not nec. fragile as you make them (thickness) according to the size of the drawer.. I always use a flush slip glued to the sides and frt, gives the drawer sides more running surface and pretty well eliminates cracking at the drawer bottom grooves. not really required but does a better job

   plywood is used in drawer bottoms for ease of making and for economical reasons. if one is making that good  or fine hand made piece of furniture out of solid wood, why crap out on things like drawer bottoms.. it really depends on how one wants to make it,making drawers, do we hand cut the dovetails or do we use machine cut or a staple gun. they will all do a job, but as a matter of personal satisfaction I hand cut my dovetails and make solid wood drawer botttoms. what you do is your choice. there are no set rules but there are certain processes one should use when assembling solid wood furniture to assure that it is going to last

   then as now there were still people that could afford quality and that cost was  and still is relative to the object

   ron

1. 
   joinerswork | Apr 30, 2010 07:38am | #14

   I remember having this argumen--er discussion back in 1972 when I started building and repairing furniture.  And used to have a reprise, every time I changed jobs.  Like pins first or tails, or the right way to inlet a hinge,it is guaranteed to get things going esp if there is beer involved.

   I bet the Egyptian shop master had the same talk with his Assyrian journeyman, building Nefertiti's lingerie chest:

   A. Journeyman: Couldn't we laminate some sheets of papyrus together, oh about 2/100ths of a cubit thick, and put those sheets in the bottoms of the drawers?  They'll be more stable.

   E. Master:  Naw, just get them out like we always do.  There's a stack of cedar of Lebanon over in the corner, it's wide and easy to work.  In a 100 years, nobody will know or care what's in Nefertiti's drawers.

   Both:  Haw, haw!