Replies

1. 
   RalphBarker | Jan 16, 2010 03:36pm | #1

   With 3/8" sides, I'd go with
   With 3/8" sides, I'd go with the slip design, too. And, a 5/8" bottom sounds reasonable, considering the dimensions and materials. 1/2" might be sufficient for socks and such, but might be strained by heavy objects.

2. 
   Eef | Jan 16, 2010 07:18pm | #2

   derek,

   nice work again.

   i especially enjoy the once-in-a-while peek into your shop, er, um, shed.

   eef

3. 
   DonStephan | Jan 16, 2010 07:52pm | #3

   Slips, brought to my attention more than a few years ago by one Sgian chap, are a favorite detail. They not only allow a more gracefully thin drawer side, they can add tremendous interest to the inside of a drawer. Mario Rodriguez also discussed slips in a drawer article in the Feb 2009 issue of Popular Woodworking.

   It's not historically accurate, but I like to scratch a narrow bead along the inside top edge for more visual interest. I've also ran a slip along the back of the drawer front, so the slip runs from one back corner all the way around to the other. Just another approach.

1. 
   derekcohen | Jan 16, 2010 08:43pm | #4

   I've also ran a slip along
   I've also ran a slip along the back of the drawer front, so the slip runs from one back corner all the way around to the other. Just another approach.

   Hi Don

   That is similar to what I have had in mind.

   This is where I left off last night ..

   I finished making a new drawer bottom as I felt that the first one was too thick (at 5/8") - and too heavy as a result - and the wrong wood (I had used Radiata Pine). The new bottom is 5/16" thick Karri Pine, which is the same wood as the drawer sides (front and rear is Tasmanian Oak). This is a beautiful, straight-grained, light wood.

   Here is Jim Krenov blessing the new panel.

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   In the mean time I made the slips ..

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   And this is how they are positioned (just one to show the size and placement ...

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   End of yesterday in the workshop ..

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   Today I will make the drawer.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 17, 2010 07:33am | #5

   I don't recommend fitting a
   I don't recommend fitting a slip to the back face of the drawer front Derek. Think about the procedures logically and you'll see why. You run the drawer bottom groove in the drawer front and the drawer slips one after the other using the settings needed to do this with whichever tool you do the job with. The end result is that the groove is inset the same distance up from the bottom edges of all these parts.

   The slips are made with a tenon at the front end that coincides with the position of the groove. This tenon fits into the groove on the back face of the drawer front, ergo, all the grooves line up thus ensuring the drawer bottom slips in easily.

   Replace the drawer front groove with a groove in a slip that is attached to the back face of the drawer front, and then ask yourself, "What lines up all these parts?" When you've answered that question I suspect you'll drop the 'slip attached to the drawer front' idea. Slainte.

1. 
   joinerswork | Jan 17, 2010 03:52pm | #6

   Hello Richard,

   A lot of the British slipped drawers I see here stateside, have in addition, a "mullion", or center slip, grooved on its edges, dividing the bottom into two. I presume this is to enable the frugal maker to use even thinner stock for the bottoms, supporting them in the middle and preventing the phenomenon all us older woodworkers dread so much, saggy drawers.

   It was standard procedure for period makers here in the US to glueblock their relatively thick, one piece bottoms in place around their perimeters, stabilising and squaring the drawers. Sadly, with the advent of central heat, seasonal movement becomes an issue for such construction, and most drawers so built have either lost the blocking along the drawer sides, and/or split their bottoms, and/or shrunk and pulled completely out of the grooves in the drawer front (typically they are nailed along the back, forcing all movement in and out of the front's groove).

   Nowadays, one common solution to this problem is the use of plywood for bottoms, which eliminates the movement altogether, but looks just wrong in reproduction or traditional work. What I like to do, is use a two-piece 1/2" thick bottom, a wide (12-14") board and a narrower (4-6") one (running side to side), tongue and grooved (1/8- 3/16" tongue) together. Locating the wide board to the front, and nailing the narrow one along the back, one can glue block the wider board to the drawer sides at its center, fixing it in place, and dividing its movement in half, relative to the block. The nailed narrow board's relatively small movement is taken up by the (unglued) tongue and groove joint.

   Regards,

   Ray

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 17, 2010 06:08pm | #7

   You're correct Ray. It is
   You're correct Ray. It is still common to place a muntin centrally in wide drawers. They are usually dovetailed, glued and screwed up into the bottom edge of the drawer front and notched around the drawer back. Their purpose, as you surmised is to strengthen the drawer bottom. I've even seen two muntins on wide and tall drawers expected to carry heavy loads.

   I seldom do reproduction work that requires solid wood bottoms, but your plan for your work sounds good. Luckily for me, being mostly into contemporary work an' all, I can usually get away with a bit of nicely pre-veneered MDF or ply for my drawer bottoms, ha, ha. Slainte.

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 17, 2010 09:00pm | #10

   Well the Newport cabinet makers, as wonderful as their creations are, just nailed the bottoms of small drawers to the drawer sides, rabbeting them into the drawer front. Those drawers ran on the bottoms. Incidentally, in those small drawers, like on Pembroke tables, or card tables, the grain of the drawer bottoms ran front to back. All of the three or four of them I have seen in museums had a split in the bottoms despite generally being made of quartersawn white pine. On larger drawers, the bottoms were still nailed to the sides, but the grain ran across the drawer, and they often had a hardwood "runner" nailed underneath the bottom to take the wear.

3. 
   jonnieboy | Jan 18, 2010 02:01am | #11

   Joiner,

   ---Sadly, with the advent of central heat, seasonal movement becomes an issue for such construction---

   I understand why wood movement would split drawer bottoms, etc., but I don't understand how central heat plays into it. Could you explain this a bit more?

   --jonnieboy

   --jonnieboy

4. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 18, 2010 03:20am | #12

   Central heat means MORE heat as well. With heating by individual fireplaces, fires burned only when rooms were used, and even then in most households that using was often just huddling around the fireplace. BEdrooms would have little heat, which was why so many beds were "draped" and why bed warmer pand weren't rare. More heat means lower relative humidity.

   But until well after WWII there was not much corresponding reduction in summer humidity. Consequently the movement between dry winter and moist summer was much greater. It was only then the air conditioning spread very widely to residential application.

5. 
   joinerswork | Jan 18, 2010 09:26am | #13

   johnny,

   Before the advent of central heat, high summer humidity was matched by high winter relative humidity. The reason winter air feels "damp" (with only a small amount of moisture in it) is that it is cold, and attains saturation with relatively less moisture. Heating that cold air lowers its relative humidity-the amount of moisture that's in it remains the same, but the amount it CAN hold goes way up as it is warmed. This has the effect of "drawing" moisture out of objects in the warm environment, causing wooden furniture to shrink.

   Air conditioning has the effect of moderating the extreme swings of humidity, by somewhat lowering summer humidity, and if your hvac system humidifies in winter, that helps too.

   Ray

2. 
   DonStephan | Jan 17, 2010 07:17pm | #8

   Thanks for the posting, Richard. I had missed completely the thought of tenoning slips into a front face groove. I didn't stop to think about details and just ran slips willy nilly around all three directions. Have to think about this a bit, but I do like the look created by 3 mitered pieces.

   On the few slips I've used, I've simply attached with hide glue and spring clamps until the glue set. Low tech, and requires attention, but I just aligned slips with bottom edges of sides and front to keep grooves matching.

1. 
   derekcohen | Jan 17, 2010 08:46pm | #9

   Thanks again Richard.

   Don, my plan is as you describe, which is a method I have successfully used on other occasions. I have used grooves in the face and side panels quite a bit, but not thought to use a tenon into a groove, as Richard suggested. After he wrote this I went off and did a little reading. I am confident, however, that a glued on slip will be around long after I am not.

   This armoire is a small wardrobe for a guest bedroom, to be used only by guests, so is not expected to have many clothes, and certainly not to be used for heavy objects.

   Yesterday was very, very hot. I did manage to get this far with the drawer. It needs to be planed down and fitted ...

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   Regards from Perth

   Derek