Replies

1. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Sep 25, 2003 09:41pm | #1

   Do your fronts run flush with the sides?

   A drawer joint will work if your fronts are applied to the drawer box but it won't work if the front is integral.

   I guess I'd go handcut dovetails, however it sounds like this is not something you want to take on so...first choice for ease would be the drawer joint and an applied front.

   Lee

   Lee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

   Prospero has so screwed my account that the e-mail at the top will not work. If you need to e-mail me go through my website.

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 26, 2003 07:29pm | #8

   "A drawer joint will work if your fronts are applied to the drawer box but it won't work if the front is integral. "  Lee, I'm not following this.  I'm sitting at an old oak desk that has a drawer lock joint and the front is not applied.  What am I missing??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   scooter1 | Sep 26, 2003 07:49pm | #10

   What he means is that a drawer joint works if the front is flush with the sides and there is an applied front to the drawer. If the front sticks out a bit from the sides (like a half blind dove tail might) then a drawer joint won't work.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 27, 2003 12:14am | #11

   Thanks Boris.  I guess it's the "applied front" that threw me.  The essential requirement seems to be that the side and front are flush.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   scooter1 | Sep 27, 2003 12:38am | #12

   Yep, thats how I interpreted it.

   Have a nice weekend everyone! I'm off to get a dial caliber.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Sep 26, 2003 02:11am | #2

   Boris,

   Love your quote.

   Which dovetail jig do you have?  I've got a Leigh that I use to make through dovetails for gift boxes.  The stock is 3/8" usually.  Had to buy a different set of bits, but it works fine.  I think you can use it to get half blind for stock that small if I'm not mistaken.  If you'd like to know I'll check my manual.

   How are you cutting your finger joints?  Just wondering if you're using a jig on the tablesaw or some other way?

   aka Steve
1. 
   scooter1 | Sep 26, 2003 03:50am | #3

   I have a Leigh, and found it impossible to use. I think I spent 20 hours or so trying to cut the first stupid dovetail, and just gave up. It just sits in a box with all the templates and bits. Learning to cut them by hand a professional school would have been easier. What a waste. Sigh.

   The finger joint or box joint jigs I have are two: homemade and a WoodCraft one. They seem to work fine for narrow stock, but after about 4 inches, any errors get so compounded that there are gaps. I use a 1/4" daddo blade (Systematic) on my Table Saw (Unisaw). I have a Benchdog Router Table with one of their fences.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   BG | Sep 26, 2003 04:30am | #4

   Boris,

   Not sure where your located, but Woodcraft in Woburn, MA has a course next month on the Leigh dovetail Jig.

   Not bragging, but last Saturday I made a jig for finger joints using the Incra 1000se, a piece of MDO, and the dial caliper.  It took about 6 trial cuts to get it on the button.  My big problem which FG helped with was the insert around the blade was not flat.

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Sep 26, 2003 07:28am | #6

   Hey BG, that dial caliper makes all the difference on precise jigs dosen't it?  Mine sure gets a workout!  I wonder how it would work to make the jig on a crosscut sled?  Then the throat plate would be irrelevent it seems.  Have a good evening,aka Steve

1. 
   BG | Sep 27, 2003 01:10am | #13

   Dirt,

   Yes, the dial calipers make a big difference.  Also, putting the jig on a cross cut sled is a great idea.  A little credit has to go to the Incra 1000se too..it allows you to make micro adjustments...getting the spacing perfect.

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Sep 26, 2003 07:23am | #5

   Boris,

   Hmm.... My experience with the Leigh is just the oposite.  I had a Craftsman "Industrial" before, now thats a challenge.  Follow the book and the Leigh does exactly what they say it will.  No it's not cutting them by hand, but if you don't have the time to do them all by hand what else do you do.  Besides, do all those purists use hand saws exclusively?  If technology is bad, get rid of that newfangled infill and use a woodie.  Sorry, I'm on a rant.

   I use a homemade jig for box joints, built like Norm's, and find it to be rather precise, even for wide boards.  Wonder what the difference is.  You've even got a better saw then I was using last time I used it, and a better dado set.  Well good luck, and if you feel like tangling with the Leigh again, its got the capibilities if you've got the patience.  BTW it'll cut through dovetails in stock as thin as 1/4", and half blinds in 1/2" drawer faces.  The sides could be thinner.aka Steve

3. 
   lostarrow | Sep 26, 2003 02:24pm | #7

   Boris-

    There's a very good article on how to make a precision box joint jig at >>> http://www.diydata.com/projects/plans/tool_plans  <<<

   Be not afraid of going slowly.  Be afraid only of standing still.   chinese proverb
1. 
   scooter1 | Sep 26, 2003 07:45pm | #9

   Thanks so much for the link. What was significant to me was the use of dial calibers to measure the fingers. I really like that idea and will hit the woodworkers tool store today to pick a set up. I found it interesting that the slots would be a tad larger than a quarter inch and the pins slightly smaller than a quarter. This is starting to make sense.

   I apparently have a perfectly good finger joint jig or jigs; what I don't have is a properly adjusted one, and apparently, I am incapable of doing this by trial and error. I really want to thank for this insight. The light bulb just went off.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

4. 
   Steinmetz | Sep 28, 2003 06:20am | #14

   Boris, Why not edge miter all the outer 8 vertical side corners  of the drawer and dado their bottoms for loose fitting bottoms !/8" baltic birch ply)

   Then clamp and glue together. After all drawers are dry and you still like the "look of tails, Just run the blade through the corners so you can glue in 'Splines" of darker or lighter wood 1/8" thick  When sanded, that looks mahrvelous!

   To do this uniformly, cut the first top cuts on each drawer, then advance to the second notch lower on all drawers and then next and next (you get the picture?) Stein.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/29/2003 2:30:49 PM ET by steinmetz

1. 
   scooter1 | Sep 29, 2003 07:27pm | #15

   Great idea. I've made some boxes that way, back when Humidors were popular.

   This weekend, I picked up some scrap poplar stock and a Starett Caliber and attacked the finger joint issue. While it very difficult to accurately measure wood to a degree much below 5 thousands (how much pressure does one put on the stock? How do you keep that presure consistent), the Caliber does give a good rough idea how close you are to .250

   The article posted by one of the guys here, suggested that one should have the pins be .249 and the slots be .251. Because of the inconsistencies of the Caliber and the wood, I can not accurately measure the wood thickness to that level of accuracy.

   In any event, my prototype drawers worked fine, and subject to some tweaking, I will be ready to run them later this week.

   Do you guys make the chest first, then the drawers, or what I am doing, the drawers first, then the chest?

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   Steinmetz | Sep 29, 2003 09:19pm | #16

   Boris, Draw a plan first , double check dimensions Then make chest first  Any irregularitys can be addressed (before choosing drawer fit size.)   Any changes to original plan should be corrected and put on plan.  Save plan.  Stein.

1. 
   scooter1 | Sep 29, 2003 10:04pm | #17

   Done all that. I guess the conventional logic is that it is easier to plane or sand the sides and tops of drawers slightly to fit, than it is to ajust Web Frames and Drawer Slides once the case is glued up.

   I guess after building the casework, I should build the drawers to exact measurements without being shy of the space, and trim to fit.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   Steinmetz | Sep 29, 2003 10:25pm | #18

   Boris, did you say you're using applied drawer fronts?  They cover a multiple of sins. Matching and aligning grains, evening up spacing and parallism etc. Stein. I would go that route.

   Edited 9/29/2003 3:31:40 PM ET by steinmetz

2. 
   BG | Sep 30, 2003 12:07am | #19

   Boris,

   I attach the draw guides to the side of the carcas ...that allows a little shim to tighten things up if need be...