Drill Bits in a Biscuit Cutting Machine
skycowboypaul
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I just saw on Inside This Old House Tom Silva using a machine that looks exactly like a biscuit slot cutting machine but instead of cutting slots it drilled two holes for dowels. He used the machine to drill holes in both sides of a 45 degree miter. I like that machine, got to have one. I just finished doing an hours worth of searching and darn if I can find it. I know somebody in here will know where I can find one. Thank You.
Replies
Paul,
It's a Mafell; and you won't like the price!
See also a new Festool thang, which drills round-ended slots of various widths, depths and thicknesses in which floating tenon-like biscuity-dowel things are put. The Festool is over £500 and the floating tenon things are up to £0.80 EACH!
(Multiply by 1.7-something for dollar prices).
Lataxe.
Thank you Lataxe, I just got back from their web site. Awsome stuff that company makes. I just got the okay from the little woman. "Whatever you want honey." Thanks again.
It's a Mafell doweller, and I have one. Bought it for a specific job, but it's not bad to have around. Sometimes dowels are just what's needed, and the set distance (64 mm) is handy if you do a lot of things like mounting plates on the Euro system. At the price, it's not a must-have tool, but nice...
DR
This one has been advertised in FWW for a while. Now you've got two to choose from.
http://hoffmann-usa.com/
Thanks for all the leads guys. Wouldn't it be great if they could make the fixed 32 mm distance between dowel centers adjustable? It is a steep price at $874.00, but I already have a zillion applications in my mind to use it on. Besides, I'm sick of my Freud and it's ill fitting biscuits.
You could always sell the Freud at a garage sale or give it to some woodworker starting out, buy a good biscuit joiner (Lamello), still have a few hundred left to buy more wood or tools. Or keep the Freud and get a WoodRat.;-)
I have a Hoffman, it is a real nice tool. I have used it extensively for assembling commercial throated door frames ( a high end, high use, stain-grade door system).
I have no doubt that the Hoffman, Mafell, and soon to be released Festool's Domino machines (given their European heritage) are great tools and are very versatile and effective. Were my living dependant on woodworking I wouldn't hesitate for a second or flinch at the price of buying a tool like that.The biscuit joiner was slow to get going on this continent because it was a new way to work and change is always looked at with skepticism. I expect in a decade or so the portable doweler and tenoner will become staples in a lot of shops just as plate joiners did.Since I am a hobby woodworker and have a Lamello, Kreg pocket hole system, WoodRat, and the skill and knowledge to make joints with all the other usual tools. I'll be watching from the sidelines for the time being. Skycowboypaul (don't know if that means he's a rootin tootin pilot or a cowboy that gets bucked off a lot;-)) is the man with the dilemma of; to buy, or not to buy.I wouldn't mind seeing some pictures of your doors, in progress and finished, if it wouldn't be an imposition?
To QCInspector: I am neither a "rootin tootin pilot or a cowboy that gets bucked off a lot." I am a retired Cleveland, OH Local 17 Ironworker. I spent the first 20 years of my career hangin' iron on buildings and bridges all over the country. The last 10 years I spent in the mills welding and doing general maintenance trying to recuperate from the beating my body took the first twenty years. Was it me you are asking to see some of the doors I've built?
Skycowboypaul.I apologize if my teasing of your screen name offended you. There was a ;-) in there. Knowing your background now, it makes sense. My screen name is derived from my job too. I inspect machined structural parts (ribs, spars, landing gear parts etc.) that we make under contract. And I'm a Shop Steward in Local 712 of the same Union you belong to, so I suppose were Brothers.My request to see door pictures was to McMarky. I wasn't to sure what he meant by "throated door frames". I can't remember if I've ever heard that term before and pictures would have told me if he was using a regional term or if it was a method new to me.QCInspector
To QCInspector: You can't offend me QC. I found nothing offensive in your email. That is one of the things I hate about chat and emails, except for little smileys you can't see emotions. You know what I mean, so much can be interpreted from what somebody says by their facial expressions, tone in their voice and body movements. In these notes we write back and forth to each other in here, all of that is missing. As far as being brothers because we belong to a union, then that is a fact:-) Do you know what an "Iron Worker" does?
I have never heard of the doors he is talking about either.
"Do you know what an "Iron Worker" does?"I'm not sure if it's a good idea to respond to that question, but OK I'll bite. What does an "Iron Worker" do?
LOL....I was being serious Inspector.
Oh!! Being serious ehh!Yes I do. As I said "Local 712 of the same union. That meaning "International Association of Bridge, Structural and Ornamental Iron Workers. Next time you board a plane when taking a trip, I may have had a hand in inspecting the parts that are keeping you safe, 7 miles up.AAAHHHHHH!!!!!! I'll walk!!!! I'll walk!!!!!! ;-) Of course maybe I should ask you which bridges to avoid when I am visiting the States. Yes. We'll ford the river here. Don't let the cattle bunch up. Seriously. Which bridges?
I have worked on most of the downtown Cleveland bridges, Innerbelt, Lorain Carnegie and the Detroit bridge to name a few. The highest & longest I've worked on is a bridge named the Valley View Bridge. 2 miles long and 150 at its highest point. I hung iron for quite a few of the amusement rides at Cedar Point and Seven Flags, (used to be called Geauga Lake when I worked on the rides there.) I hung the tube for the Millennium roller coaster at Cedar Point. The Justice Building and new Federal Building downtown Cleveland. To many jobs to list QC. BTW, if you get time look for another post of mine in the materials part of Knots. I posted a picture of a door I'm building now.
"I'm sick of my Freud and it's ill fitting biscuits"Which is the problem, the joiner or the biscuits?
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Charles, I am probably the problem. My Freud biscuit cutter is 15 years old and has NEVER had the blade sharpened or replaced. But, even when it was brand new it never cut the way I believed it would when I bought it. For instance: when edge gluing freshly joined and planed 3/4 thick boards together, they never really lined up using the biscuits. I would blame the machine, I would blame the biscuits. I bought all different brands of biscuits. None of them really seemed superior to any of the others, and price didn't seem to matter. I tried all kinds of different ways to store them. I even had my wife shrink wrapping them in her food storage machine. Where or how I stored the biscuits didn't seem to make any difference how they fit when I put them in the slots. Now I grab one, if it fits in the slot I use it. If it don't fit it gets tossed and I grab another one. Now, the fence on the Freud creeps. The little black thingies that hold the fence must be wore out because I tighten them so hard now I'm afraid I'm going to break them. I like the whole biscuit concept, but in my circle I am not the only one who complains about them. My good woodworking buddy has a 3 month old Dewalt slot cutter and he's already complaining about it.
That joiner is a little dated but I'll look when I get to work tomorrow to see if we have replacement clamps still available for the fence.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Thank you Charles. It's a model JS 100. I'd probably use it alot more if that darn fence would stay put.
That 15 year old jointer was before the days of accurate fences except for the Lamello Top. Try not to over tighten the screws or learn to register your material from a falt table instead og the fence. aloha, mike
Based on the age of your JS100 I believe the problem with the fence moving may be in the design of the plastic clamps that hold it in place. I made a drawing from memory of the profile of the clamps like I think you have (left) and the later version (right). If yours are like the one on the left you can file away the square steps and to make their shape like the one on the right and it should solve the problem.
View Image
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Mine are like the drawing on the left. I will file off the step and hope I don't make scrap out of them. If I do screw them up, can another set be ordered? Thank You.
I might be able to scrounge up a couple in an emergency but the whole design has been changed and those parts have been out of production for many years.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
I worked in the Federal building at E 9th and Lakeside from 1984-87.
polarseal1, there is a brand new federal building in Cleveland now. It's on Ontario street, right across from the main post office. I have been by the Federal Building you worked in many times but I didn't get to work on it when they were building it. They put that building up in the 50s. My dad worked on that one. Way before my Iron Working career began.
I didn't realize that the building I worked in was that old, I could look out the window and see left field in the old stadium. Woodworking content: I bought a real old Unisaw while I was there :)
Charles, excellent question. Old biscuits can swell in humid weather and blades in jointers can get smaller if they are "touch up sharpened" improperly. Both result in tough fits which is not a problem with the tool. Even dull blades with chipped teeth can make for an ill fit biscuit. aloha from the land of "swelled" biscuits, mike
Ya just LOVE to spend money..
I'm a 'clod' and my dowel 'points' just work fine!
Will, I'd jump off a cliff before I resorted back to the stone age and dowel points. I'm sure once every ten years or so out of the last 30 I've had to use them but I regretted every time. I just never had that much luck with them. But I'm glad they work for you.
I'd jump off a cliff before I resorted back to the stone age and dowel points. LOL.. LOL.. I use em' all the time!I enjoyed the post! So There!
Edited 4/9/2006 11:48 am by WillGeorge
I hear ya Will. I use em too but I have a Newton horizontal borer and I love dowels. Interesting that they might be making a comeback in the new machines. aloha, mike
The Domino -- a new Festool tool that can do mortising and loose tenons! (It also does doweling, but I'm less interested in this than I am in loose tenons.)
Like a lot of people, I'm anxiously awaiting this tool's arrival. Doing loose tenons is a great operation, and if I could get the Festool quality in this, I'd be happy!
Unfortunately, the tool is being held up in the UL approval process. I don't exactly know what the hang up is, but new Festool tools are often delayed because of UL approval.
I'll keep you posted!
Edited 4/10/2006 9:34 am ET by BanyanTree
Lataxe,
You suggested that we might start a discussion on "rules for buying tools." Someone started this same discussion, based on price, in another forum. It caused big problems! My guess is, it's probably not a good idea to discuss what's "worth it" and "what's not worth it." But hey, people can do whatever they want.
On your other points, the manner of work you describe is just what Festool seems to be going for with the Domino. What I like about the Domino is that it performs doweling as well as mortising. If the price of the Festool loose tenons is too high, I think you could make your own out of your own stock.
Edited 4/10/2006 6:16 pm ET by BanyanTree
BT,
As a rather anarchic fellah myself, with the usual human habit of rationalising my (emotional) actions after the fact whilst pretending I made the decision (logically) beforehand, I too fear the very idea of rules that are hard and fast - especially if they're someone else's rules. Hitler had rules, as did Comrade Stalin and any number of ferocious British Empire Governors of Victorian times. (But I am wandering in the mind now).
Rules for buying woodworking tools, should there be such a thread, would need to be an entirely theoretical discussion. One is interested in the rationalisations (before and after the fact) offered up by other woodworkers for their purchasing habits, not least as it is handy to have some ready-made excuses when the ladywife makes an unannounced visit to the shed and spots the new gleaming thing.
Also, I like to be disabused of my self delusions, from time to time. It's a sort of clean-out of the head and its sillier habits of thought.
As to that Festool doweller; I confess to lusting for one but I really would have to have a very good "reason" for purchasing such a very gleamy thing. The ladywife seems to know with just one glance how to translate various colour-schemes used by tool manufacturers into likely cost. If Festool would only allow us to specify alternative colour schemes, I might get a dull red one and pretend it was a very inexpensive thing from Cheapo Tools of Chunwan.
I do make my own loose tenons which, because they are finished in a drum sander, are very accurate in their thickness. But I suspect that the Festool dominoes are like biscuits - laminations of solid wood slivers that are also compressed, so that they have strength, dimensional stability (as a plywood) and a tenacious grip once expanded by the wet glue.
Lataxe
.
Lataxe,
All that you said about delusions and self-delusions, rationalizations and explanations, and such, yeah, I know...On the Domino, I believe the loose tenon stock Festool will be selling is solid wood.Here's a link to the German Domino site, which should help clarify a few things:
http://www.festool.de/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=5146&CFID=1051098&CFTOKEN=23b545aa36496094-F7021B66-FC7C-48D3-AC322DE62D123395I have also attached a PDF file that describes the machine, for your reading pleasure.
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