Replies

1. 
   alexlisa | Jul 12, 2002 08:12pm | #1

   Check out the Jet floor models. The fit and finish is as good or better than Delta, for less money. The castings on some models look identical to Delta, probably from the same factory. I think some models come with a rectangular table, which makes more sense than circular for woodworking.

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 12, 2002 11:46pm | #2

   Thanks.  I have looked at Delta and Jet.  From what I have learned they are made at the same location, from the same molds, etc.   Been trying to figure out why I would pay $450 for Jet compared to $399 for the same Delta model.

   (And, if you are thinking Delta on woodworking equipment, one of Wilke Machinery's lines is called Yorkcraft.  Much cheaper than Delta and they tell me it comes from the same factory, molds, etc., as Delta.  They don't have all the same models as Delta, but do have quite a few.)

   Alan

1. 
   Elcoholic | Jul 13, 2002 02:02am | #3

   I have the Jet 17" "Anniversary Edition" and don't recall the price, but it did come with the hollow chisel attachment and a set of 5 chisels which are fine for softer woods like mahogany , but not so good for white oak.  The built-in work light is really handy since I've got it in a dark corner.  It has a round table, but I made a nice big rectangular one with t-slots and a fence.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 15, 2002 07:42pm | #5

   I have looked at and like the Jet.   I wouldn't decide a press based on the work light, but the one with the Jet seems to be a good feature.

   Thanks for your thoughts.

1. 
   Trees2dust | Jul 15, 2002 10:31pm | #10

   Alan,

   These are some of the problems I have found with drill presses:

   - Spindle play: grab the nose of the chuck and try to wiggle it.  There should be no play at all.  Wiggle it again as you lower the spindle.  A little play is to be expected when the quill is all the way down, although the best and most heavy-duty drill presses will be solid with the spindle all the way down.  I looked at a 17" Delta that had moderate play.  There was a Jet that seemed ok, but the play varies greatly from machine to machine.  The effect of excessive play is you can't drill accurate holes, specially in cases where the bit is not center-guided, as in cutting a partial hole with a Forstner bit.  Manufacturers and magazine reviews seem to ignore this particular flaw.

   - Lousy chuck: plan on replacing the stock chuck with a good Jacobs chuck, because it will start to slip then get wobbly after a short time.

   - Vibration

   I had a drill press from Enco, which looks a lot like the Delta.  The spindle play was so bad I didn't even take it out of the box.   Another was a Harbor Freight, which looks like a Grizzly; it has the problems listed above.  I now use its crank-up table as a work support.

   I have come to the conclusion that drill presses are like hand planes.  You can't buy a decent new one for a reasonable price, but good old ones are available if you're willing to spend some time looking for them and tuning them.  I found an Atlas drill press, made around WW2, that works like a dream, for $125.  Besides not having the problems above, it has a couple features that I have found indespensible: a quill lock and 4 1/2" quill travel.

   Rick

2. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 16, 2002 05:47am | #12

   Rick,

   Wow!  Really appreciate the detail and specific info you have provided.   With information like you and others have provided it increases the chances of a good purchase.

   Thanks, Alan

2. 
   alexlisa | Jul 15, 2002 08:16pm | #7

   Alan:

   Check out Toolcrib/Amazon.Com. They are selling the 16-1/2" Delta and the 16-1/2" Jet floor model drillpress for the same price. $399. I was wrong about the table though, the Delta has a square table, the Jet is round. Given that, I think I'd go for the Delta after all. Seems like it would be easier to modify the square table for woodworking. Who was asking $450 for the Jet? You raise a good point about Wilke machinery. Drillpresses in general seem pretty straightforward and hard to screw up, even the cheaper models.

3. 
   MikeK50 | Jul 15, 2002 10:11pm | #9

   I've been trying to figure out the issue of all of these US brands being manufactured in the "same" Taiwan factory.  There are actually several factories making US branded woodworking machinery.  The only conclusion I have come up with is that the companies that have the most on-site quality control have the best products, i.e., Jet & Powermatic. 

   I was told that the rejects from many of these lines are painted different colors and sold as other brands.  Specifically, I was told by an authorized dealer that General International rejects are often re-labled Grizzly and sold.  It is important to note that "rejects" can be cosmetic or very slight out of tolerance conditions that make little difference to the average woodworker.

   The bottom line is that you get what you pay for.  If you want top quality and precision, be prepared to pay more.  Personally I like North American made products like Powermatic (only a few are still made in the U.S.) and General (the ones made in Canada.)  Unfortunately, few, if any are avialable in the 14" band saw or 12-13" planer area.

   Mike 

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 16, 2002 06:02am | #13

   Mike

   I agree with the idea of paying a little more and getting a much better product.  I have a General table saw and think it is great.   It should last more than my lifetime.

   You may be right that rejects are painted and become a cheaper brand.  Before I bought a jointer, I found that several brands, from expensive to cheap, look alike except for wheels, handles, controls and the like.  The bodies look like they are all out of the same mold.

   It may be that some come from the same mold, but the more expensive ones are finished to closer tolerances and higher quality. 

   In college I worked for Remington Rand one summer.  We manufactured the old mechanical calculators.  This was not long before electronic calculators came out.  We made calculators for several different retailers.  The only difference was the cover that went on the calculator.   The retail prices were all different. 

   Also, I would agree with the need for a good quality bandsaw.  I use a Makita table top planer that is excellent.  Paid more for it, but the difference is worth it.

   Alan

4. 
   BrentTOOLz | Jul 19, 2002 08:26pm | #20

   Check out the Drill Presses from http://www.generalindustrialsupp.com they carry Scratch and Dent machines as well as new!

2. 
   BG | Jul 13, 2002 03:04am | #4

   Alan,

   I bought a radial arm drill press with a 17" carriage.  I can roll the workbench over and drill heavy stock.  Also, I can move the carriage to cut mortices rather than the stock.  Needless to say, the base has to be secure to support the changing center of gravity.  

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 15, 2002 07:43pm | #6

   What is the brand and model of this drill press.  Please define what you mean by "carriage."  Thanks for your help and opinion.

   Alan

1. 
   BG | Jul 16, 2002 02:11pm | #14

   Alan,

   Sorry, i did not answer your main questions.  I bought a craftsman on sale. The 17' radial arm drill press allows you to slide the chuck out and back from about a 4" range to 17".  It also swivels one way 90 degrees and 45 degrees the other.  To achieve compound cuts, for chair legs, I combine a simple jig and rotate the hed 10-12 degrees.  Also, to make parallel holes, I slide the chuck out instead of moving the stock (that may be cheating, not sure...lol)

   Recently, I had a 4" ash apron all glued up with the turned legs and was trying to figure out how to attach it to the coffee table top.  I decided to drill down through the four inch ash about 3.5 inches with a 5/8" bit, and then drill the rest of the way with a 1/4" bit. Putting the screws into the table top that way allowed for movement of the wood (not sure it's enough).  Anyhow, trying to support a two by three frame, with legs attached, while drilling would have been a hassel.  I was able to pull over the work bench (on wheels), support the piece to the proper height, and drill away in comfort.  My radial arm drill pressed is proving to be the best thing i have bought so far...

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 17, 2002 02:10am | #16

   BG

   Don't know that I will need a radial arm drill press, but I think I will take a look.  Any particular manufacturers/brands?

   Thanks

1. 
   BG | Jul 19, 2002 01:04pm | #18

   Alan,

   Dave raises an interesting question with regard to Radial Arm Drills.  Why arn't they more popular?  Is there something wrong with the power or deflection of the head or other issues?  Since I bought my Craftsman I have not noticed a lot of competition in the market place.  If they ever were popular, there dosen't appear to be a huge demand now. 

   Mine was not very expensive and so far has delivered all the power I need, perhaps my work is light as Dave suggests.  On the defelction issue (if I understand correctly what this means), Dave is correct, when your cutting on the angle with a 1" Fostner the head of the bit will move more than I like, but so far it's been pretty accurate.  I've been thinking other drill bits might lesson the impact of this issue.  My biggest disappointment has been the depth of cut issue, it appears to be limited to about 3.5 inches.  I have not checked if that is standard or just unique to my model.

2. 
   sharptools | Jul 19, 2002 02:37pm | #19

   One of my first auction purchases was a 1950s vintage Delta Rockwell radial drill.  It came with a metal stand and worklight attachment for $85.00.  It has proven to be extremely useful for woodworking, but I wouldn't want to rely on it for anything but the lightest of metal drilling.  Yes, the head deflection is noticeable, especially when drilling larger holes.  However, the versatility of the drill far outweighs this weakness, and I think I would have a difficult time finding a better drill for my woodworking needs.  Besides, the inaccuracy caused by the deflection is small, and when you consider that wood moves and changes dimensions on its own, the accuracy issue becomes mute.  Whatever type of drill you decide on, I would strongly recommend that you shop some older used equipment.  There's a lot of good machinery out there just waiting for a new owner to put it to use.

3. 
   sschefer | Jul 15, 2002 08:26pm | #8

   Alan, go try the Jet before you buy it. Have them check the runout for you and then have them crank it up to full speed. I think you'll be looking for something different. This is the first Jet tool that I have not been 100% satisfied with.

   Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 16, 2002 03:27am | #11

   Steve,

   What did/do you not like about the Jet?  What sort of problems have you had with it?

   Thanks,  Alan

1. 
   sschefer | Jul 16, 2002 06:28pm | #15

   The 17" Jet floor model vibrates excessively and has a runout problem. Both can be corrected for about the same additional amount that it would cost for a better DP.Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 17, 2002 02:12am | #17

   Steve,

   What would you suggest other than a 17" Jet?  Would explain more about what you mean by "runout?"   Is that the "looseness" of the chuck/bit when it is fully extended?

   Thanks, Alan

4. 
   alanplanesaw | Jul 24, 2002 04:44am | #21

   Thanks for the website lead.  Forum is such a great place to get a wide variety of opinions.   I know that one can purchase a tool that comes with a great reputation, but that somehow made it through inspection and is a lemon.  

   Not yet sure what I will wind up with but I am armed with new questions to ask during the decision making process.

   Thanks,

   Alan