Replies

1. 
   macalex | Jun 15, 2003 10:50am | #1

   This is a big subject, Kevin, with a fairly large literature (including in back issues of FWW).

   You'll probably get lots of advice! Best practice for air drying burls (or any 'difficult' timber) depends on your climate and circumstances, but as a general rule slow is best - especially in the first few weeks and months. The hotter and dryer your climate, the riskier it is!

   Part of the answer will depend on what you intend to use the timber for. If turning, you may want to rough-turn while fairly green, then slow dry before finishing. There have been articles - well one at least - on this subject in FWW in the past.

   For boards, saw to generous proportions (say 4/4 or 6/4, maybe 8/4 for short lengths), sticker in the order they come from the saw, seal all end grain, add lots of weight, and cover to keep the humidity up during the first few weeks/months at least.

   Kiln drying will be quicker, safer, and more sucessful, but it is also a skilled job; and if you are just cutting a few pieces for your own use, not a realistic option. Is there a local kiln operator? Give them a call.

   If air drying, how about calling some of your local woodies and asking them what they do?

   I've dried and used elm and oak burls (in the UK), and totara burl (in New Zealand) with mixed sucess. The elm dried OK, and I am using some at the moment (its been in storage for years) for decorative ring trays in jewellery boxes. I got a local veneer mill to slice some of the totara burl (spectacular, successful), but the boards have all gone banana-shaped and will be difficult to use for furniture.

   If your burls are special, how about getting them sliced into veneer?

1. 
   Kevin | Jun 15, 2003 07:29pm | #2

   Well.... I don't yet know what I'd use the burlwood for. As a long-time professional finisher/painter, I'm much more interested in what the wood looks like and as such really haven't given much thought as to *how* I'd use it. So, rough turning while green isn't really an option at this point.

   I have consider kiln drying. Problem is... there is apparently only one kiln dryer in the metro area (Portland, OR). I haven't called them yet. But, I've looked locally and online and can't find much of anything showing other folks working with Hazelnut wood. So... I doubt the local kiln operator will have a drying schedule for Hazelnut. I do know that it is a member of the Birch family. Perhaps a Birch drying schedule would be a good starting point?

   Slicing veneer is actually a very appealing idea to me. I don't know of anyone locally who does that, though. As far as I can tell, the local wood industry is geared towards sawing conifers into lumber for buildings and such.

   My assumption has been that I'll have to rough cut the wood/burl myself with a chainsaw. Can you point me to a good overview of how to go about cutting the wood into the various cuts (riffcut, plain, etc)? I'd like to experiment with different cuts to see which shows off the wood to it's best advantage.

   Regards,

   Kevin

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 15, 2003 08:43pm | #3

   If you could find some local Fine Woodworkers who cut their own veneers (for instance, via local galleries) you might be able to trade some of the stock for milling the wood.  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Kevin | Jun 15, 2003 08:57pm | #4

   Hmmm... I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the suggestion!

   Regards,

   Kevin

2. 
   Malcolm2 | Jun 16, 2003 05:07am | #5

   > My assumption has been that I'll have to rough cut the wood/burl myself with a chainsaw. Can you point me to a good overview of how to go about cutting the wood into the various cuts (riffcut, plain, etc)? I'd like to experiment with different cuts to see which shows off the wood to it's best advantage <

   How you convert the timber to lumps or boards `depends' as well ... on how big the burls are, where they are (like deep in the woods, or by a trail ... or in a backyard) and what sort of gear and manpower you have available.

   If you can get it to a mill, then you have options about sawing for best yield and best figure (and best handling/drying).

   If you're converting in the field, without even a chainsaw mill, you'll waste a lot more and may be limited to which cuts are possible.

   Converting burls is not like converting ordinary timber - their structure is different, and their characteristics tend be be species-specific: cherry burl is not quite like walnut which is not quite like redwood and so on.

   It helps to think of a burl as a bowl-shaped organism (or maybe half an orange). Cut parallel to the flat base and you get one appearance, cut at right angles and you get a much different appearance. Experimenting is more tha half the fun!

   Good luck (take some photos)

3. 
   DennisS | Jun 16, 2003 07:56am | #6

   Kevin -

   If you're mainly interested in turning the burls, consider treating them with .... dish soap! No kidding.

   I read an article a while back in a turning book where a master turner was looking for an alternative to PEG (PolyEthyleneGlycol) which has been used to soak blanks in to displace the natural moisture in the wood. This author (forgive me for not remembering his name) felt PEG had a negative effect on the finish of the end product. Then one day, paraphrasing his comment in the article, he was in the grocery store and spied this heavy syrup-ie material on the shelf, liquid dishwasher detergent, and thought to give it a try.

   Diluted to various degrees (there have been several subsequent authors writing about using it) it seems to displace the water or natural moisture in the wood. It doesn't prevent warping (in my limited experience using it) but does lessen the degree of checking.

   What I've done is rough turn pieces of totally green material, various species, and throw them in a bucket full of about a half quart of the detergent to half the 5 gal. bucket of water. Usually I forget about them until I'm looking for a project (often several weeks). The wood seems to turn quite well and I've had reasonable success in finishing thin rimmed vessels without shrinkage cracks.

   Another approach I've tried is rough turning blanks then storing them in either paper or plastic bags. Checking them once every so often they seem to cure out pretty slowly and don't check too badly if at all. Again, I'm only a turner wannabe so my experience level is pretty low at this point. But these are a couple things you might try.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   macalex | Jun 16, 2003 09:25am | #7

   > Another approach I've tried is rough turning blanks then storing them in either paper or plastic bags. Checking them once every so often they seem to cure out pretty slowly and don't check too badly if at all <

   Dennis' point here is the one I made at the top - a key thing is to slow down the early rate of drying, by keeping the humidity in and around the drying timber as high as possible.

   If you are not intending to turn this stuff - and I gather you're not - you might still like to try some of the turners tricks! Rough cut oversize, store in water or in a damp sack for some time, or use the dish detergent approach.

1. 
   Kevin | Jun 17, 2003 06:27am | #8

   Dennis' point here is the one I made at the top - a key thing is to slow down the early rate of drying, by keeping the humidity in and around the drying timber as high as possible.

   First of all, thanks for the feedback, guys. I've been pondering what you've both said.

   So... I would assume that the middle of the summer isn't the best time to be drying green wood? I live west of Portland and the humidity is middlin'... neither excessively high nor excessively low... temperatures range from the low 70's to 100. A related question would be what is the best time of year to be cutting the tree down? I presume that sap plays a role here somewhere. Also, isn't there such a thing as too much moisture during the drying process? I saw someone mention a week or so ago here that they had some Black Walnut (I think) that had mold on it.

   Regards,

   Kevin

2. 
   macalex | Jun 17, 2003 11:38am | #9

   > the middle of the summer isn't the best time to be drying green wood? I live west of Portland and the humidity is middlin'... neither excessively high nor excessively low... temperatures range from the low 70's to 100 <

   If you can't control humidity and temperature then I'd guess late summer is best, but there's something about rising sap that I can't remember - where are all the sawmillers and timber dryers?

   Also, isn't there such a thing as too much moisture during the drying process? I saw someone mention a week or so ago here that they had some Black Walnut (I think) that had mold on it.

   In the UK, in the past (and maybe still now) logs were often stored in mill ponds before sawing. Here in New Zealand there's a guy who has a national park permit to recover and convert windblown and other naturally felled logs from the South Island Fjords - some of them 100s of years old. Moisture's not necessarily a bad thing, but a combination of the wrong amount, and the wrong temperature (and maybe the wrong timber species) probably is.

   Hard and fast rules are hard to come by in this business!