After using a “tung oil finish” varnish/oil with quite a bit of success. I thought I would use pure tung oil to finish a project to see how it compared.
I would like some feedback. When I put on the first and second…or even the 3rd coat of 20 to 50% diluted (in mineral spirits) oil, and wipe it down after 15 minutes to 1/2 hr. The finish looks satiny (looks good!!). After waiting 12 to 24 hrs, it is dull and areas look like they have soaked into the wood leaving it lifeless. It is blotchy (dull areas with others that have some gloss). I put on several more coats 24 hrs apart and I don’t see any real improvement. If I try to apply it and let it set, I still get the same effect and I seem to get “scales” that flake off. I would say that shows that I have put on too much.
If I put just a very small amount on the surface, I expected to see a surface that had a slight satin look–at least after 2 or 3 coats. My description is that the wood looks dull, lifeless unless I put on quite a bit and let it sit, wiping it after about 1/2 hr. It does not seem to matter how many applications I put on, it still has the lifeless look.
Suggestions?
Replies
Hi Eric
I only use pure Tung Oil with a blend of a citrus oil (to remove the dank smell of the Tung Oil). I bathe (full immersion) my boxes in a tub of oil, wiping off the residue after ten minutes or so. Then I will set the box aside for 4 -6 weeks, depending on the type of timber used. Then I will fine finish the box, using a minimum of oil and achieve a great gallery quality lustre to show the best of the timber.
Using a diluted Tung Oil won't accelerate the drying time, it needs time to polymerise, that is to bond with the timber, before you can get the real benefit of the Tung Oil.
I hope this helps?
Tony Ward
Blue Mountains, Australia
Basically, pure oils--tung and linseed--do not produce any sheen at all when directly applied to wood in their pure form. That's one of the reasons why varnish and an oil are mixed to form an oil/varnish mixture like Watco and Minwax Tung Oil Finish. The addition of the varnish not only improves the moisture and water vapor resistance and abrasion protection, but also adds a little gloss.
If you apply a large number of very thin rubbed in tung oil you may get a soft glow. But, it's a lot of work for what will end up being a poor finish.
If you want a little sheen to your item, either apply an oil/varnish or wipe on a coat or two of a wiping varnish.
HowardI am not familar with the oil/varnish mixtures like Watco and Minwax that you talk about. I rely only upon Tung Oil. For example attached is an image of a work finished only with a blend of pure Tung Oil and a citrus oil, the sheen will continue to get better over time with the further applications of a small amount of the oil.Tony Ward
Blue Mountains, Australia
Now THAT is what I was looking for in the finished result! Really nice. I am making a 1/4 sawn oak case. Can you describe the steps you used? What does the citris oil do for you?
Thanks to the other posters also for their feedback. Maybe some of the suggestions shown here will help me improve my approach.
I just read your other post saying that the citris oil is only for the odor problem. Hmmm. I guess I need to let the oil sit on the surface for a while and then really rub it out and let it sit.
Tony, that's a great-looking finish. If I understand your method correctly, you do the following:
Immerse the piece completely in pure tung oil (with a little citrus oil) for ten minutes.
Remove the piece and wipe off the excess oil.
Let the piece sit for 4 to 6 weeks.
"Fine finish" the piece. Exactly what does this entail? Sanding with 220? 320? 400? #0000 steel wool?
Apply very small amount of pure tung oil.
Then what? Another small amount? How many times? How much rubbing? With what? How much wait time between coats? Any sanding between coats?
I'd really like to get this straight so that I can give it a shot. Going from a decent finish to a great finish is a question of getting all the details correct: wait times, number of coats, sanding grits, etc. I'm not sure I want to have a big bucket of pure tung oil sitting around, but I usually make small pieces, and I could certainly apply oil very liberally for ten minutes. It's the other steps where I'd like a few more details.
Thanks in advance,
VinceG
VinceGYou've got the processing steps OK, except the sanding, and that is the real bugger!!! I finish the initial sanding at either 400 or 600 grit, depending on how I feel. Put it into the oil bath, stand it to allow the surplus oil to drain into the bucket, wipe it dry and set it aside for 4-6 weeks. Wipe it dry so that it does not attract dust. Often surface oil will not be absorbed and just sits there. Most often I will leave it for 6 weeks. Then commence the fine finishing with 600 - 800 wet and dry, working through to 1500 wet and dry if required, applying a little amount of oil directly onto the wet n dry paper. By this time you'll see the lustre develop. Some of the resultant slurry will be absorbed back into the timber open grain, but generally it should be wiped off with a soft cloth, between the grades.Along the way use 400 grit to remove any machine marks missed during the initial finishing process, then use the various finer grades to finish.When the fine finishing is complete stand it aside again until ready to take it to the market place. Sometimes just a light application on a soft cloth adds to the finish, but mainly it is used to remove the dust, grit and finger marks.I know of a number of bandsawn box makers and other woodwrokers who finish their boxes with a fine wax, but that is not my preference.As you can see this is a long and ardous process but worth it. Along with everyone else I am always on the look out for a better way of getting the much admired fine finish.I hope this helps
Tony Ward
Tony,
Thanks so much. I really like your finishing style. I'm getting close to completing a set of small shelves (hard maple, not curly), and I'm trying to choose a finish. Is maple a good candidate for your tung oil process?
(I'm trying to stay away from staining maple. I've stained maple before and gotten away without blotching, but I think it's just because the piece was so small that there wasn't very much variation in the wood I was using.)
How about BLO? Do you use the same finsihing method with BLO as with tung?
Thanks,
VinceG
VinceG,
Someone posted the attachment a while ago and I copied it to my finishing file. If you read through and follow the 15 process steps to a letter it really works...altough the time line may be a bit more. You can use your own 1/3,1/3,1/3 mixture using either BLO or real Tung oil with this process.
Eric
I have used pure Tung oil since the 60's and have had very good results. I use it on end grain before I stain a piece so I get an even color. I also use it to finish pieces that are going to have every day use such as my bookcases I built in my den in the early 70's. We had 3 kids at home and they might set a cold drink or hot drink and sometimes spill some anywhere in the house. The finish was unharmed when we moved out 7 years later. No rings from the cold wet cans nor from the hot cup of coffee. Very forgiving finish.
My method of applying was saturate a small cloth and wipe it on, let stand for a few minutes and wipe off excess. 24 hours later buff lightly with 400 steel wool and apply another coat the same as last. I applied 4 or 5 coats this way. I had a 6 or 8 oz bottle of Tung oil and covered 14 feet long by 8 feet tall of cabinet bottom and bookcase tops and had oil left over.
No it wasn't glossy but it wasn't dull either and it didn't attract excessive dust. If I want glossy I use a wipe on finish like Watco, it has Tung oil in it.
I've been told Scotland exports a lot of Tung oil.Good Luck
les
>>If I want glossy I use a wipe on finish like Watco, it has Tung oil in it.I've been told Scotland exports a lot of Tung oil.
What Watco product is that? I am not aware of any Watco product that contains any tung oil except for a small amount in their Teak Oil.
I would be surprised if Scotland was able to cultivate tung trees. According to the info I have, "they require long, hot summers with abundant moisture, with usually at least 112 cm of rainfall rather evenly distributed through the year". They are a tropical tree.Howie.........
Howie
I think I have a can of Watco in my shop I will check and get back to you. I had a customer that vacationed in Scotland about 15 years ago. She was telling me about the Tung oil being a product they exported there. Something else she told me which I wasn't aware she was told canned beer has a lining of Tung oil so the beer wont pick up the taste of the can.
les
You've got to be kidding. She certainly is.Gretchen
Come, come Gretchen you grumpy old cynic.
Tung oil is exported worldwide from Scotland at about the same quantity as flannel--- by the bucket load, as any fule no's. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 5/2/2006 3:18 am by SgianDubh
BG,
Thanks for the info. Still, I'm going to try Tony Ward's method first. There are probably a million variations, and maybe I'll have time to try a few of them.
VinceG
VinceG,
I just posted that protocol so you'd have it for your files...not to suggest a particular finish.
I have only used Tung oil once back in the mid 70's...refinished a mahogany card table, victorian style. For at least ten years aferward the table would stain any wall it came in contact with....don't know when it finally dried.
Dull, lifeless surface with Tung oilI use a HARD wax!
I just finished a toy chest for my grandson, using pine for the main box, and red cedar for the lid, (cut from our property about 25 years ago). The chest is about 2' x 4' x 18" deep. I used Pure Tung Oil (Lee Valley Tools), 5 coats (2-4 days apart) on the box, and 2 coats on the lid, with 400 grit after each coat. I then finished the lid with Johnson's Paste Wax and the box with "elbow grease". It highlights the grain and looks great; not too dull, and not too glossy. I've used Tung Oil on several occasions on wooden toys, and it is holding up very well.
Sheepman / PA
Tung oil is qoing to take at least five applications, giving several says time to cure and sanding with 400 grit between each coat. And don't expect much gloss out of all of this. Such a finish will have a small amount of moisture resistance, a tad more than the virutually none from linseed oil, but not worth writing home about.
Eric, you don't specify what kind of wood this is. An important factor I'd think, and would influence how you prep the wood for your tung oil. I'm still learning about this stuff myself, having had an excrutiating experience with some regular (not hard) maple.
Sounds like you're working with a blotch-prone wood?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I do that.. But I'm old and do not see to well..
I use a good WAX to finish it,, Nobody ever complained to me..
Just me though 'AND I do not hear well!'
Pure Tung oil is basically vegetable oil. Most products marketed as Tung Oil have varnish in them to make them dry hard and have a sheen.
Tung oil is a nut oil, not a vegetable oil.
True tung oil comes from the nuts of a tree that grows in China--and some other parts of the world. A product that is a true tung oil will have a label that says either "pure" or "100%". If it doesn't say that on the label, IT ISN'T TRUE TUNG OIL. Forget about all the other baloney and look for one of those two words if you want to use a true tung oil. If the label contains any other chemicals, except a thinner, you are not getting a true tung oil.
"Tung Oil Finish" is a marketing expression for products that the manufacturer thinks will give you a finish like the finish you get from a true tung oil. These "Tung Oil Finishes" generally do not contain any true tung oil. Their only claim to the use of the word "tung" is that they claim to give you the appearence of finish that results from true tung oil. You're buying a "faux tung oil finish".
There are two types of "tung oil finishes". One is mixture of varnish, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits (called an oil/varnish). The exact mixtures are proprietary but 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 will get you real close. Some manufacturers add a dollop of drier to speed up the drying. This same mixture is frequently also called "Danish Oil" because it gives a finish that resembles the finish used on much of the "danish style" teak furniture imported in the 50's and 60's. It closely mimics a true oil finish but the addition of the varnish resins gives it more durability and protection.
Here are some oil/varnish mixtures:(*)Deft Danish OilGeneral Finishes' SealacellBehlen Danish OilMaloof FinishBehr Scandinavian Tung Oil FinishMinwax Tung Oil FinishMinwax Antique Oil FinishVelvit OilWatco Danish OilMcCloskey Tung Oil Finish (contains pure tung oil, not linseed oil)
The second "tung oil finish" is one made from varnish and mineral spirits. The approximate ratio is 1:1. This is really just a thinned varnish just like the stuff sold as "wiping varnish". When one two or three coats are applied, it also mimics the finish produced by a true oil but it is harder than the oil/varnish above because it does not contain as much oil. It is slightly more protective than the oil/varnish type or tung oil finish. For all intents and purposes it is a varnish finish.
Here are some thinned varnishes:(*)Minway Wiping VarnishWatco Wiping VarnishFormby's Tung Oil FinishZar Wipe-on Tung OilVal-OilHope's Tung Oil VarnishGillespie Tung OilWaterlox Original Sealer/FinishGeneral Finishes' Arm R SealJasco Tung Oil
One way to tell whether the product is an oil/varnish or a wiping varnish is to read the application instuctions. Oil/varnishes are applied, then given some time to set, then wiped dry. Wiping varnish products are wiped on an left to dry (no wiping off).
For either of the above, you can mix your own using your own proportions, can it and sell it as "My Greatest Tung Oil Finish". Then announce a new product with slightly different proportion and call it "My Greatest Danish Oil Finish". We're not talking rocket science here.
Finally, I'm not disparaging these products. In fact, they are a more protective and durable finish than any pure oil finish. They are what they are and can give you a good finish when properly applied. The issue is their usurping the "tung oil" because they think it will sell more product.
(*) Thanks to Bob Flexner "Understanding Wood Finishes"Howie.........
Another way to determine whether it is a pure Tung Oil, apart from the dank armona, is to look at its consistency it takes seeminly forever to pour from a 44 gallon drum into a small container!Tony Ward
Thanks for the correction. Wow, have I been misinformed all these years.
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