Replies

1. 
   Dave45 | Nov 15, 2004 04:45am | #1

   Almost any real DC system will be quieter than a shop vac.  My Ridgid shop vac sounds like a 747 on takeoff roll - lol.   A dedicated DC unit is much quieter (more of a fan noise) because it uses 4" or 6" ducting and exhausts into a large bag.  Since the flow paths have larger diameters, the velocity is lower and the noise is reduced.

   I have a Jet 650 cfm DC system in my shop and it works pretty well.  I say "pretty well" because I've gone from a weekend hobbyist to a full time woodworking business and an upgrade to 1100 cfm (or more) will eventually be a necessity.

   I have 9' ceilings in my 20'x20' garage shop and a ceiling mounted collector over the workbench will probably be my next purchase.  Sanding causes the biggest messes right now.

2. 
   Michmesquite | Nov 15, 2004 05:06am | #2

   I agree with Dave above about the noise level of a DC. I currently have a Jet DC1100C and while it is quiet enought to work with, I am moving it outside into a wood cabinet.

   I would not recommend moving a DC outside if you live in a cold environment. It will suck the heated air out of your shop and unless you run replacement air ducting back to the shop, the heat is lost.

   _________________________________

   Michael in San Jose

   "In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell 

3. 
   FineBlade | Nov 15, 2004 05:16am | #3

   I have 6.5 ceilings and got the General 3 H.P. dust collector because it was the only bigger cfm machine that easily fit. It is also 200 cfm more than the comparable Delta, Jet, or Powermatic. Most of the new 2 micron cannister style are also shorter than the bag style, and are supposedly quieter. The General collectors are on sale in the fall promo flyer. check out http://www.general.ca (sorry i don't know how to post a proper link) hope this helps.

4. 
   jako17 | Nov 15, 2004 05:20am | #4

   Check out Onieda I believe one of their cyclones will fit in 7.5 ' headroom

1. 
   highfigh | Nov 15, 2004 04:00pm | #5

   I had been looking at DC's in the 2HP range and, like most power ratings, they're all over the map when it comes to CFM, vacuum, etc. I went to Harbor Freight and saw their 2HP unit (rated for 1600CFM- seemed like comparable suction to the 2HP Jet) and it was on sale for $149. Not finished as nicely as some of them but it works pretty well. My cleanup time is down to about 10% of what it was. I also don't have so much fine dust floating around. It should fit in your basement and, while mine is in a garage with 9' walls, the sound isn't nearly as annoying as the shop vac. The frequency makes a big difference when it comes to how loud it sounds since the ear doesn't respond to all frequencies equally.

   For those using a shop vac of some kind that makes too much noise, Rigid makes a muffler that fits into the exhaust hole. It cuts the volume down without reducing the suction very much. About $10.

1. 
   Dave45 | Nov 15, 2004 05:06pm | #6

   I have that muffler and it definitely helps - but it's still very noisy.

   For folks thinking of moving their DC outside of the shop, remember that in any piping system, distance equals resistance so it may be necessary to increase the duct sizes to maintain the necessary flow rate.

1. 
   highfigh | Nov 15, 2004 07:12pm | #7

   And for those using plastic pipe, remember to have a ground wire in the pipe to discharge static.

5. 
   forestgirl | Nov 15, 2004 09:41pm | #8

   SDM, you might want to take a look at the various canister-style collectors.  They are about 72" high overall.  Here's the Grizzly 2HP, and the Jet 1.5HP.  Much easier to clean and dump, filter better than bags and have more surface area.

   You are never wasting resources by collecting dust with a machine rather than with your lungs!

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

6. 
   klink | Nov 16, 2004 12:08am | #9

   I just installed a onieda 2hp commercial unit - very please!!! - quiet as can be, ducts can be run between joists if accessible. my trunk duct is only 6". - well worth the investment!

   Brian

7. 
   bleubassplyr | Nov 16, 2004 04:43am | #10

   Here is a good site with lots of information on cyclone DC's.

   http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm

   There are more old drunkards than old doctors.  Ben Franklin

1. 
   sawdustmaker | Nov 16, 2004 03:52pm | #11

   Thanks all for your input, and the links. It's great to have as much information as possible, as well as other's personal experiences, to make an informed decision.

8. 
   mike4244 | Nov 16, 2004 09:49pm | #12

   I use two smaller dust collectors and no pipe. One sits under the saw table ( 1 1/2 hp penn state with horizontal bag ) this is connected to a manifold box that I made.This DC takes care of cabinet saw ,jointer, drum sander and over head tablesaw dust collecting. The second DC sits against a wall, smaller manifold collects from slidesaw, bandsaw, planer and router table. Each DC collects from only one machine at a time, I do not use blast gates. Each manifold box is simply a square or rectangle with 4" holes, toilet flange connectors screwed on. Hose slips over the flange nipple. Inside the box are rabbeted sticks that hold a 1/4" x 5"x8" piece of masonite that slides down from a slot cut in the top of the box.When I use the saw the masonite sits on top of the slot. The other openings the masonite gates are in the slots, sealing these openings effectively. When I use the other tools I do the same thing, pull the gate, close the others. I have found this a much better alternative to blast gates.I forgot to mention that I duct tape a plastic one quart soup container with the bottom cut out to the hoses. This gives you a taper fit into the toilet flange, never falls out and easily pushes in and pulls out.The soup containers I speak of came from Chinese takeout restaurant.Any plastic container that tapers from top to bottom might work.

   Read a copy of the book WOODSHOP DUST CONTROL by Sandor Nagyszalanczy, this is an excellent reference book. The manifold box described in this book is a little different than mine, it will give you some good ideas.

   mike

9. 
   Garry | Nov 17, 2004 12:17am | #13

   Hello Sawdustmaker,

   I don't think the noise will even be noticeable outside but in a smaller shop such as yours I do think the noise will be quite noticeable but not as noticeable as your shop vac. Next time your in the Upper Peninsula and passing through Engadine, stop by my shop and you can get an idea of the noise. I have an old Delta collector and it is inside my open shop. The noise is much better than the chips and dust.
   Oh by the way, when comming this way again bring along some of that birch with you and lets do some horse trading.

   Garry

1. 
   sawdustmaker | Nov 17, 2004 02:58pm | #14

   GarryThanks for the invite! I've used up most of the second batch of birch that I purchased. The same client wanted some other work done. The last time I was at the mill there was a considerable stack there, but I'm not sure about the figuring.What are your thoughts on placing the dust collector in an enclosed "shed" outside? Too cold in the winter? Too hot in the summer? The noise I am concerned about with the outside placement is from the neighbor's perspective.I would love to get up to see you and your shop. We'll have to set something up.Mike

1. 
   Garry | Nov 17, 2004 07:00pm | #15

   Hey Mike,

   I have seen where the collectors are set out side in an enclosed shed attached to the shop but I have not heard any feedback.

   I really do not see any big drawbacks as long as it is wheather tight and allows the exhaust from the blower to escape the shed so you don't blow your walls out.One thing that may be a concern is you would be pulling air out of the shop which means that if you have a good size collector you may need to allow fresh air back into the shop. It may also draw out the heat in the winter unless you return the filtered air back into the shop.

   Just let me know if you ever want to come my way, your always welcome.

   Garry 

1. 
   Jeffnv | Nov 27, 2004 08:01pm | #16

   I recently switched from shop vac to dc.  I went with the 1.5 with 1 micron bags from penn state.  It works great!  I put in pipes to all machines and cleanup is almost non existant.

1. 
   Garry | Nov 28, 2004 01:47am | #17

   Thanks dinger

   I have been looking at the Pen State and the Onieda, Good to hear yours worked out well. How big is your shop and how many machines are hooked up?

   Garry http://www.superwoodworks.com

2. 
   Jeffnv | Nov 30, 2004 06:11am | #18

   I have a 2 car garage.... I mean shop - no cars allowed.   Dust colletor in one corner 4" line to planer, tablesaw, jointer, bandsaw 2nd 4" line to drum sander, miter saw, lathe.  I also have a hd vac system on one side of shop for bench sanders, scroll saw, drill press.  The system works pretty good for my needs.

3. 
   Garry | Nov 30, 2004 04:55pm | #19

   Sounds like a nice setup. How many machines can be used at one time and still be effective?

   Garry http://www.superwoodworks.com

4. 
   Jeffnv | Dec 01, 2004 03:51pm | #24

   I have blast gates at each machine and only use one at a time.

5. 
   DougF | Nov 30, 2004 05:34pm | #20

   Gary,

   I have the 2hp Oneida for a 700 sq ft. shop.  I often run 2 machines at once, usually because I forget to close a blast gate, but it works very well.  I think you will find that for a 1.5 hp system, a 5" main line will be much more effective and you can drop 4" lines to your machines.  My system starts with 7" but the majority of the runs are 5".  The Penn State system is probably cheaper but if you compare them together you will find that the construction of the Oneida is substantially beefier and the motor is definitely better.

   Doug

6. 
   Garry | Nov 30, 2004 05:42pm | #21

   Thanks Doug

   Garry http://www.superwoodworks.com

7. 
   Jellyrug | Nov 30, 2004 07:43pm | #22

   Garry,

   If you are planning dust collection, go look at this site, lots of good stuff.

   http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

   I have just revamped my whole shop with 220v receptacles in all the right places fed from a sub panel and I'm almost done with my dust collector project. I'm using a Grizzly G0548 2 Hp, with a canister type filter, as it helps with giving you more static suction pressure, while keeping in the fine dust.

   I use to calculate and design everything to the finest detail. With a very busy job and not too much spare time, I took some bad short cuts this time and purchased pipes and fittings from Lowes on a Sunday afternoon, without too much planning.

   Sooo.., to make a long story short, I ended up with a lot of 4" PVC pipe where I should have used 6" pipe. After waking up and looking at this project properly, I saved the project by running a few 4" pipes in parallel (using two pipes as a common suction) and I got this thing to work OK to all my machines without starving the blower.

   If I looked at the above site before starting, or referenced some of my old dust collection calculations, I would have taken a day off to go and buy the right stuff during business hours and ended up with a totally better system.

   Jellyrug

    

8. 
   Garry | Nov 30, 2004 11:32pm | #23

   Thanks for the info  Jellyrug. Looks like some good info.

   Garry http://www.superwoodworks.com

2. 
   Mackwood | Dec 02, 2004 06:08am | #25

   I have a 3 HP Grizzly "unit" enclosed in a small doghouse outside my shop.  The doghouse is lined with "egg carton" foam and there is a home made muffler on the exhaust.  You can stand right next to it and talk to someone in a normal voice with no problem at all.  My exhaust just blows the dust in a pile so I don't know if you could use the muffler concept on your system.

   The muffler is just a 20 gal. plastic acid barrell with holes cut in each end offset from each other.  The stuff goes in one end, out the other and never builds up inside.  It really works great; fortunately, as the exhaust is pointed right at the house across the road.

   Regards,

   Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"

10. 
    chatobob | Dec 03, 2004 02:58am | #26

    At first you might think it strange, but you might consider locating your DC in the center of your shop and organizing your tools around it.  This design minimizes collection pipe length and thus increases dust collection.  You have to get away from the notion that tools should be located against the walls and get used to the process of walking around your shop on the outside of your tool collection, in circles. 

    It's probably why I'm so terribly confused most of the time, but it has worked well in my studio. 

    -Bob