Hello,
I’m pretty new to woodworking and I’m in the process of setting up a shop in my single car garage. I’ve managed to cram in most of the necessary machines, but I’ve noticed that they put out a whole lot of dust! I don’t have room for a dust collector and I’m wondering about using a shop vac in place of a dust collector. Will a shop vac actually help or am I just wasting my money? What have been people’s success with this option?
Replies
A shop vac is going to be helpful with the bigger pieces but it isn't going to really address the tiny airborne particles that are more dangerous. If space is a problem why not open the garage door and put an exhaust fan to move the particle laden air outside? Don't forget a good respirator ...
Be safe,
Ken
I am about in the same boat you are in I need a dust collector and will make room .
I now realize it is one of the most important tools in the shop. I think I spend most of my time cleaning up so I can work.
Shop vac would be handy but will not do what a dust collector can. Also for what you will send you could get a dust collector - I think you can get one under $200.00 check out amazon
Ron
Who Ever Has The Biggest Pile Of Tools When You Die Wins
You'll need an air cleaner hanging from the ceiling, and a dust collector . BIG shop vac will work OK for awhile for DC, but not great. Take a look at this recent thread:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-knots&msg=14642.1
And this clever dust collector http://members.aol.com/Alamaral/DC.html
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It sounds like a shop vac may not be the way to go. I do have an air cleaner hanging from the ceiling, so I've got that base covered. What I need is some way to suck up the big stuff from my router table, jointer and band saw. I've seen small, portable style dust collectors advertised. Jet and Delta have a 3/4 hp model and Grizzly has a 1 hp model. Would those work better than a 6 hp shop vac?
Yes, the DCs would work far better than the shop vac. I'm a Grizzly fan, but their DCs are not their best product. Go for the Jet or Delta.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie -
Sorry to hear you say that! I just popped for the 3hp Grizz. cylcone for my new shop. Haven't got it up and running yet - just built the forms for the 'exterior' conc. pad where it will reside today so can't offer any comments. The size and heft of this thing has me worried about the plumbing (25ga round sheetmetal duct) I plan on using to run from the DC to the various machines in the shop. I envision forgetting to open at least one blast gate when I turn this beastie on and ending up with several linear feet of flattened ductwork! (hahaha)
BTW - don't hold your breath on comments about this thing. I need to find a few other concrete projects before I call the readymix truck. The unit price on less than a yard of mud is more than I like to imagine! (haha)
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Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Not to fret, Dennis. I was thinking of their lower-end DCs. Wood just reviewed cyclone collectors, and the Grizz did pretty well. Very good airflow, better than its look-alike the Bridgewood. Evidently the manual sucks even better than the DC, ROFL! Prepare yourself.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The unit price on less than a yard of mud is more than I like to imagine!
Ever hear of Quickcrete and a wheelbarrow?John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
> ....Quickcrete and a wheelbarrow?
Been there, done that. 60 sacks worth in one project to be exact.
Once is enough for me! .....(grin)
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Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hey, Dennis, you finally did it!
I am waiting with bated breath to hear you r comments on the Griz unit.
--
Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon;
Gateway to the Oregon Caves
It's all assembled, setting in the shop (with the cyclone unit on the floor still, not on the stand) so it may be a coupla weeks before it's fired up.
I decided to go with the Grizz since it was close by (a drive to Bellingham is only a little over an hour), I could touch & feel, no shipping, it came with a stand (Penn State has a wall bracket) and has a nice big 7" inlet port. I', planning on roping myself to one of the porch columns when I turn it on! (grin)
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Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis,
I recently completed the plumbing of the dust collection to my larger tools. I'm sure you've done your homework but there's some good info on Terry Hatfield's site and of course Bill Pentz' site. Just for info I used the 6" pvc and it's alot better than the 4" I originally had. Go with the large pipe for best results.
good luck, Hugh
Greetings Hugh,
After demo-ing out the old forced air heating system in this house we're remodeling, I have quite a bit of 6" sheetmetal ductwork I plan on using to plumb thee DC with. I agree, with the bigger machines, 6" is the way to go. Just need to get all the blast gate setups, though.
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Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis,
Before you spend a lot of time building a system out of salvaged ductwork, you should check that it can withstand the rather considerable air pressure that a DC can create. More than a few people have had the experience of thin sheet metal heating ducts imploding the first time all of the gates were closed while the fan was running.
John W.
Edited 11/30/2003 12:10:50 PM ET by JohnW
Edited 11/30/2003 12:11:33 PM ET by JohnW
Edited 11/30/2003 5:44:50 PM ET by JohnW
Dennis,
It seems that the 6" blastgates are starting to show up in the catalogs finally. For the longest time it seems that 4" was the standard and nobody was offering the larger ones. Just for info, I built mine, very similar to what Terry Hatfield did in his shop. They work fine.
One other point, since you will have the collector mounted outside the bags will actually improve the performance over the fine filter. While I was installing my setup I ran it without the bag or filter attached, just to check the ductwork out. After I installed the filter the performance was considerably worse. Its still good but not what it was.
For your purposes it sounds like the bag will do just fine. Good luck, hugh
Hugh -
All the dust ports on my machines (table saw and jointer) are 4". Or at least the fittings that cover the sawdust outlets on the machines. When I built my new shop, I designed in a utility trench across the width so I could run a 6" duct below the floor, then 45 off with a 6-4" reducer to these two machines. In your opinion, should I stay 6" to the blast gate and reduce from there to the saw and jointer?
For the stationary sander, band saw and SCMS I'll be running an overhead duct with drops to those machines. Since these mahcine generate mostly finer dust I'm of the opinion that 6" across the ceiling with 4" drops would be better to increase velocity thus pickup vacuum. Does that sound reasonable?
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Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis,
If you can do it, try to go all the way to the machine with the 6" pipe. I mounted the blast gates as close to the machine as possible minimizing or eliminating the amount of flex tubing required. Check out the following sites. These guys are much sharper and more experienced than I and have done alot of research that they are willingly sharing with us.
Bill Pentz is probably the hobbyist with the most experience in dust collection, he has a great site. Start here http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
Terry Hatfield has a great site. He has studied dust collection and has lots of good photos and proudly explains how he set up his shop and dust collection system. From the pictures its obvious that his works well. Not much dust around his shop http://www.terryhatfield.com/ I took Terry's suggestion and changed the connection on my jointer to 6". Check it out, maybe you can do simething like that on yours.
Steve Cater has a great site too. I think he's an engineer and he explains his system well. He had built some 4" pipe into his shop floor and had to upgrade the collector to accomodate the small pipe. http://cnets.net/%7Eeclectic/woodworking/Cyclone/Steve%20Cater%20Cyclone%20Project.htm
All these sites have links to others that should provide you with as much info as you can possibly need. The bottom line is keep the 6" pipe going right up to the machine if possible. If not don't downsize it until you are as close to the machine as you can get. The air will compress around a small restriction.
One more thing is to consider how you will turn the system on & off easily. I concocted a Rube Goldberg affair that pushes on the on/off switch for mine. A more sophisticated way to go would be to buy the Long Ranger switch which just plugs into the machine and then you have a remote switch.
Good luck, Hugh
Edited 12/1/2003 8:29:09 AM ET by HMTHOMASDOG
Thanks for the links, Hugh, and the advice.
With respect to controls, I saw an article in a past FWW where they used a curent sensing relay in the panel to detect when one of the machines was turned on which in turn turned on the DC. Consisted of a relatively inexpensive Radio Shack sensor, a relay or two and some wiring. That's one approach. But it did require manually opening the blast gates.
I guess in a perfect setup, when you turn on a machine connected to the DC, the DC would turn on and the blast gate would open.
Nothing money can't solve, right?! (hehehe)
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Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I'd love to be able to pay you a visit and see it in action, but not likely for a few months. Keep me posted on progress, my friend.
I'd rather get the Griz if it's performance is on a par with the Oneida. The one issue I see is the bag on the Griz is a 1 micron filter, while the Oneida has a .2 micron pleated paper filter available. Have you asked Griz if a retrofit filter system will be made available in the future?
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Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon;
Gateway to the Oregon Caves
Greetings Lee;
Don't know how we'll be able to tell if the Grizz DC is "on par" with the Oneida since I've never been around the latter to know how to make a comparison. If it moves the sawdust from the machine to the drum and bag, I'll bee happy.
As I might have mentioned in one of our eariler conversations, the filter size of the Grizz bag wasn't too big a concern since this unit will sit outside the shop.
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Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hi Anna It is not just the hp that counts .It is the Cfm relative to the inches of wc.As far as I remember and it is a long time back.Shop vacs move small cfm at high velocity.Dust collectors move high cfm at at a lower velocity.Hence they don't pick up small heavy things like nails.In short go with F.G 's suggestion
I saw this pic when I was researching building the cyclone that wood magazine had in the Nov 97 issue. I will probably build my own but I don't think it will be this crude. There are some very good articles and plans for building your own. I have a few ideas myself. When I'm done I'll post some pics.
Tony
We already have enough youth, how about a fountain of smarts.
Anna,
Guess all the bases have been covered, but I'll add one more point. Whether you use your vac for dust collection for a while yet, or buy a dust collector right away, buy a good filter for your shop vac, i.e. one made with Gortex. These will capture much smaller particles than the standard pleated paper variety and are washable, making them less expensive in the long haul.
Jeff
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