Reading the thread on shop heat and the glowing descriptions of radiant heat sparked an idea in my head. Now please treat the idea kindly, it’s in a lonely place. 🙂
Since I have 11′ ceilings in my shop, what if I raised the floor 10″ with framing and snaked my dust collection piping under the floor!?
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Replies
I like the idea, just from an esthetic point of view. Who wants to look at all that ductwork snaking around your head?
Todd
Sure -- In the prehistoric days when computers looked like a room full of refrigerators, they did something very similar for the wiring. The floor was raised, and everything ran under it. That same kind of flooring is still used in TV post production facilities and TV station control rooms. Depending where you are, you may be able to find some of it used, perhaps at an auction.
-- J.S.
I wonder if it has any impact on the DC's ability to collect dust. Seems gravity would work for it...I just looked at my shop - here are the down sides to raising the floor"The DC's closet door will have to be shortened. (it is a standard door height) or I have to reframe the doorway - except the closet has walls on the inside and outside...)All my outlets will be a foot lower
Any tools mounted to the wall will have to be raised a foot (currently that's just one tool). The window will be pretty close to the ground.It will mess up the staircase going down into the shop. I'd have to rebuild it.I'd have to leave out the swing area around the back doorIt could make getting that new tablesaw into the shop quite difficult. :-)And that's all I noticed with just 10 minutes of looking.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
> All my outlets will be a foot lower....
Does it have to be a whole foot? What's the largest O.D. of your dust lines? IIRC, those computer floors were only about 1 - 1.5" thick, and you can make the verticals whatever length you want. They come in 2' x 2' squares, which are very easy to pull and replace for maintenance.
-- J.S.
Well 10" inches anyway...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
A number of shops I've worked in had dust collection in the floor. People would often drop the nut on the table saw and down the chute it would go. There was a strategically placed trap door so we could retrieve it. The door was exactly where the nut would stop rolling. I have my heavy use machines in a rectangle around the dust collector so I don't have to deal with a bunch of pipe drops, it keeps the pipe lengths and elbows to a minimum. Under the floor may not be a good choice for flex hose or small pipe that may get clogged. It sure makes turning long pieces around easier without drops everywhere.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Mark,
I asked ONeida the same question when I was designing my shop and DC and they advised overhead for the mains. I never explored the reason why but you might consier calling the technical services folks and ask. One related issue, assuming under-the-floor is okay, is a joist sytem that will not force everything to run in parallel requiring 90 degree sharp elbows to fit within the confines of the joists which ewill be either on 16" or 24" centers.
Doug
Other than the structural changes in the shop, running a DC under the floor will not have any negative performance impacts on the DC. If this configuration reduces the number of verticle runs, then in theory you could run lower velocities (say 3000 fpm versus 4000 fpm) and still move the dust from the dust producer to the DC bin.
I believe the number 1 reason for not running DC ducting under the floor (besides structural constraints) is flexibility. Changing such a layout may not provide the same ease of change should you decide to add a new tool or move your tool layout.
--Rob
Edited 4/8/2005 9:40 am ET by Rob
That is a really good point. A rearrange is highly likely and moving pipes that are underfloor could be a major headache... For that reason alone, i'll stop considering the underfloor approach...Thanks
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
> A rearrange is highly likely and moving pipes that are underfloor could be a major headache...
Not if you get that modular "computer" floor system. It's a 2x2 foot grid, the vertical supports are all on the corners, and you can add or remove modules.
-- J.S.
would that hold a unisaw? Could I roll other tools around on it? 400lb jointer, Delta band saw...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
No sweat. Raised Computer Floor is designed to hold seriously heavy comptuter equipment, probably 250 psf. In some cases the computers (or in my experience) telephone switches are designed to receive their cooled air supply from under the floor and exhaust out the top. In this case the entire raised floor becomes the supply plenum. John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
John -That 250#/sf capacity is a distributed load, is it not? If we're considering moving a 400# machine on four casters, that's 100# per caster. And the footprint for a caster is what ....? Maybe 1" square at the outside? That's 100#/square inch. The support structure for an accessable floor system would easily carry that kind of weight but would the tiles support a 100# point load at the center? I don't really know but it's someting I'd check out. The entire idea of using a computer floor system sounds very attractive, actually. In fact I think it would be a lot easier, actually, to change the configuration and layout of the entire shop with such a system. Not just the DC but electrical, air, you name it. Everything's down at floor level and a lot easier to deal with than working on ladders. It's lying on the floor so doesn't have to be suspended from the ceiling or supported on the sidewalls. ...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I've been working in the semiconductor feild for 15+ years. They have the raised floor system down to a science. But.... all heavy equipment resideds on pedistals to support wieght and reduce vibration. As a matter of fact all the utilities come from under the floor. BTW my currant job location utilizes a 250K, yep thats right two hundred and fifty thousand squarefoot fab.
Moving equipment around is no issue either. But I would be worried about cost effectivness for the small hobbie shop or for small comercial applications.
As far as moving the duct work/machines. A well laid out shop should not have to be moved very offten.
"Youth is wasted on the young."
Yes it is distributed load. Usually the cabinets have a perimeter base frame and are open in the center. These floor systems are very substantial as well as flexible. The only real problem is anchoring top-heavy computer/telco equipment for siesmic loads here in SoCal. Essentially the cabinets have to be bolted through the floor and into the floor slab for that. John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
In reference to the question about wht the mfr suggests overhead runs:
When the drops go up heavy things like metal parts tend to stay in the drop until the DC is turned off and then drop back down. That's the way I did it and it works for me.
Regards,
DonI'm not the man I used to be, but then I never was!
" ....The only real problem is anchoring top-heavy computer/telco equipment"Uh-oh. That does not bode well for things like drill presses and band saws. Non the less, if I were going to that much trouble it would be a simple task to build a raised platform on the structural deck to match the ht of the raised floor. Having it well secured to the structure would solve that problem.I'm dreaming of having a forced air heating system in my shop with a dampered warm air supply coming out near my feet while at the lathe for several hours. How devine would that be! And floor sweeps tied to the DC system where all you had to do was grab a deck ring, pull up a trap door and sweep the debris down the hole. Maybe my shop wouldn't be such a mess!Ah how sweet things are in our dreams! (grin)...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
> would that hold a unisaw? Could I roll other tools around on it? 400lb jointer,
The Unisaw should be no problem, these floors hold racks of video gear which are at least that heavy, and like the Unisaw, supported around all the edges. Typically there'll be rows of these racks, and when something goes wrong, three or four fairly heavy engineers clustered in front of one rack.
Rolling stuff in and out is usually done on dollies or hand trucks with soft or even pneumatic tires. The surface might not hold up to big loads on small steel casters.
As for heating the shop, the confined air space down there should be a good thing, dead air is good insulation.
-- J.S.
By installing a floor one foot or so above a heated slab, I wonder how that would affect the heating capability of the floor.
Ken
If I had a heated slab, I'd get to find out. Guess I'll never know...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Rather than round ducts, can you transition to rectangular as are used between studs? That would save you a couple of inches in height. Then I'd layout a general plan and bring 4" ports up to the floor in several key positions, then add a few more access points for flexibility. You don't have to have your new '2x4 joists' 16" on center...as long as they provide enough support you can make a 'spider-web' configuration to eliminate 90 corners in your ducts. Have them radiate from the collector or use 45 degree runs to the machines. Run the ducts then frame the floor.
Tom
Why would you need to raise it a foot? If you lay out the ducting in a way that there are no overlaps, you wouldn't need more than 6".
I went the other direction. I cut the slab and ran the dust olection along with electricity and compressed air under the slab. It was alot of work but it is out of the way.
That is a lot of work. I removed a 12x12 section of concrete floor once. I'm unlikely to do it again...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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