Replies

1. 
   bones | Dec 09, 2008 03:58am | #1

   Well many moons ago I purchased the style that has two cloth bags.  I used this fro about 10-15 years.  Back then, the bags were not rated in fine microns like now, so everytime it woud fire up a puff of dust would come off it.  I eventually decided to upgrade the bags to a canister model (1 micron) with a plastic lower bag.  I paid almost as much to upgrade to the canister as I originally paid for the KUFO DC.  The difference is night and day.  Mine has an enternal device that you can spin around to clean the filter cartridge out.  I would also reccomend an air filtration system.  You will still get particulate in the air no matter how good your DC is.  I have the Delta unit and its a nice addition.  The lungs are worth it.  Good luck. 

   Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
   If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
   And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
   
1. 
   philip_r | Dec 10, 2008 12:57am | #2

   I agree with Bones.  The canister filter is way better than the bag.  Even if the filtration (1 or 2 micron) is the same - the canister filters have way more surface area.  More surface area = more air flow.

   With the cloth bags, your CFM drops as the bottom bag fills.  With the canisters, your bottom bag is plastic, therefore, you don't see the CFM loss.

   Clear as mud?

2. 
   forestgirl | Dec 10, 2008 02:41am | #3

   I have only used a cannister-filter DC, but have always wondered about even the best bags at the point where you have to empty them, and cope with all the dust that flies around then!  Cannister filter system is so convenient, in addition to being very effective.  Cannot even imagine messing around with bags.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
1. 
   Dave45 | Dec 10, 2008 09:37pm | #4

   FG -My old DC was a Jet 650 with a 5 micron filter bag. (I bought the cloth and SWMBO sewed it up for me.) That sucker was a real bear to empty and clean. I would shake the bejesus out of the filter bag and let things "settle" for a few minutes before I took it off, but I still got a lot of dust. If there was little to no wind, I would take the bag outside, turn it inside out, and shake it out.I had to pick my spots for that, however. My neighbor had a black car that showed every speck of dirt. - lol

3. 
   webby | Dec 11, 2008 12:27am | #5

   I have the delta ap 400 and was able to find a cannister filter for it on an amazon sale.

   Cannister filters are much better than the bag. I still have a bag to catch the sawdust but I feel better knowing my filter is a 2 micron filter.

   Webby 

    

1. 
   BrianDerr | Dec 11, 2008 08:29am | #6

   I have a similar question for you all, as I may be buying my first real DC soonish. I understand the performance difference between bags and pleated filters and it's something I've experienced with my shop vac, but my question is how much of a difference would I notice between and good, 'conventional' DC with a cannister vs. an entry level cyclone? I think there is a portable one that could also be wheeled around the shop.
   Thanks.Brian

1. 
   Dave45 | Dec 11, 2008 06:26pm | #7

   As I understand it, the main advantage of a cyclone is the separation of the "chunks" from the dust which lets you empty the DC less often - and reduces the probability of dinging the impeller when a "chunk" gets pulled into the system.I would be reluctant to get a "roll around" DC. That will have you changing your setup every time you move to a different machine and - if you're like me - you'll be telling yourself that "One quick operation isn't a big deal" - lolMy first DC was a Jet 650 cfm that I tried to use as a "roll around". After a couple of months, that became a real PITA and I built a hard piped trunk system with gated ports at each machine and my bench. I still had to open/close the gates, but that was much less aggravating than moving and connecting the DC.Last year, I stepped up to a Jet 1100 with a Dust Dog pleated filter and made some improvements to my ducting. I saw a significant improvement in the collection effeciency and it even works with two gates open. - lol

2. 
   philip_r | Dec 12, 2008 02:52am | #9

   The "Portable Cyclones" are pretty new to the market and I'm not sold on the idea.

   They pretty much do the same job as my 1 1/2 HP Jet (cannister), have similar CFM ratings and can cost twice as much.  IMHO, the benefit of a cyclone is the increased wood-chip capacity, fine dust separation, greater CFM ratings and continuos duty motors (class F, I think).  Ask yourself:

   How many CFM's does it take to collect the dust at my tool (guessing 350 is a good average)

   Are the tools mobile or stationary

   How many tools are going to be connected at one time 

   Do you need to increase your electrical capacity

   My Jet 1100 can run my 10" jointer and my SawStop, at the same time... I wish I could :0)  Don't get me wrong, I want to upgrade to a cyclone... I'm just not ready to drop $1,500 for the unit and another $1,000 to 1,500 for fittings. 

   Just my 2 cents.

1. 
   ted | Dec 12, 2008 05:34am | #10

   "They pretty much do the same job as my 1 1/2 HP Jet (cannister), have similar CFM ratings and can cost twice as much. IMHO, the benefit of a cyclone is the increased wood-chip capacity, fine dust separation, greater CFM ratings and continuos duty motors (class F, I think). Ask yourself:How many CFM's does it take to collect the dust at my tool (guessing 350 is a good average)"Bill Pentz saids somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 cfm at the source is the minimum one should have for adequate dust collection.
   A good cyclone system will shake out virtually everything from the airstream before it hits the filters. As far as I know the only system on the market that will do this is the one marketed by Clearvue.

1. 
   philip_r | Dec 12, 2008 07:30am | #11

   lol, show me a non-industrial table saw that pulls 800 cfm through a single 4" port.   I agree that Bill P is the man... but... take a look at your manufacturer's specifications before you start quoting third-party (AKA Bill) information.

   Here is what I was responding to: "...Is a "portable cyclone", in your opinion, worth the money - compared to a cannister equipped collector?..."  Now I'll ask you the same question.  Is a "portable cyclone", in your opinion, worth the money?

   I realize a stationary 2 or 3 HP cyclone is ideal (or a 5 hp CV)... no argument.  But would you drop an extra $600 or $800 bucks for portable mini-cyclone that sends less dust to the filter - vs. a cannister collector.  Also consider that a few turns of the paddles is all it takes to clear the dust?  Everything else, including the machine connections, is the same.

2. 
   ted | Dec 13, 2008 05:42am | #12

   "lol, show me a non-industrial table saw that pulls 800 cfm through a single 4" port. I agree that Bill P is the man... but... take a look at your manufacturer's specifications before you start quoting third-party (AKA Bill) information."It is entirely possible to get on a table saw. Maybe not through a single 4" port at the bottom of the saw but who saids it has to be 4"? I cut a bigger hole on our saw to accomodate a 5" port which pretty well cleans out the cabinet. The dust shroud around the blade is a 4" pick up. Combine that with a 4" pickup on the Exactor overarm guard and I'm well over 800 cfm and under most conditions no overspray off the top of the blade.

3. 
   philip_r | Dec 13, 2008 06:17am | #13

   did you miss the question?

4. 
   Knotscott | Dec 11, 2008 06:32pm | #8

   The cannisters have 5-6X the air flow of even upgraded bags. I've used the stock 30 mic bags, then upgraded to some aftermarket 0.5 mic bags, and then added the cannister. The cannister has better airflow, comparable filtration, and allows use of a plastic bag on the bottom without loss, which is easier to clean.