Dust collection for heath-conscious folk
user-131649
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Hi, my apologies for a starting a new thread on what may be an old subject – dust collection. From a healthy lungs perspective, what is more critical for a small shop – a dust collector or an air filter? Or, should they both be considered essential? Where should I go for detailed info on this subject? Thanks, Erik.
Replies
They compliment each other, I would prioritize the dust collector as it also helps clear the jointer and planer in particular.
As a respiratory therapist much of the damage that can lead to Chronic Bronchitis or Cancer is the result of dust particles less than 1 micron, the minimum size filtered by air cleaners. So a mask should still be used. However it does make for a visibly cleaner shop which makes it much nicer to work. Especially when its time to apply finishes.
To cover the bases instead of a mask, check out the 3M Power Visor covered in a recent post. The money spent pains the wallet as an unexpected expense but you will never regret it.
Joe Coty
The dustfoe masks are really good. The are made by mine safety appliances in pittsburgh. I think Highland Hardware carries them. I use in conjunction with a dust collector.
Joe - thanks for the info. I checked the 3M website for the Power Visor; they say that the Power Visor comes with a nuisance filter that "does not provide any respiratory protection". When I first read your message, it sounded like you were indicating that the Power Visor removes 1 micron particles. So what do you recommend (besides having another hobby - I like this one too much!)?
Regards, Erik Andersen
When 3M says it does not provide resp. protection, they might mean that it does not screen out harmful gasses/organic vapors, or protect you in an environment of less than adequate oxygen. It only removes particles (dust). I own one and wish I had it years ago.
While particles <1 micron travel deeper into the respiratory tract I haven't seen much documentation on what volume of this size is typically produced in a woodworking shop.
A realistic discussion would divide <10 micron and >10 micron sized particles. The former is invisible and small enough to be respirable to the deepest reaches of the lung. The latter is usually picked up in the nose and large airways, and is what one see's floating in the air. So in what may appear to be a clean shop particles may remain invisibly suspended for hours.
Most of the hazard risk is a factor of how much and how long. Unless one already has a Chronic lung condition or smokes, works with organic vapors, works in a coal mine, fire fighter etc.. Symptoms probably would not manifest themselves for 20 to 30 years using no protective gear.
Much can also be done to limit your exposure. I don't sand as much as I used to, try hand planing and scraping. Anything that chips is generally safer as long as the blades are sharp. Use point of origin dust control such as: overarm tablesaw dust pickup and sealed router cabinet dust collection.
There are more expensive and effective alternatives to the 3M Power Visor. Try this site that someone posted on the other thread covering this issue: http://www.airwareamerica.com/
There is a practical balance of one's effort regarding this issue. My personal opinion is that if you use dust collection, point of origin dust control, an air scrubber, avoid organic fumes and known carcinogenic exotic woods, modify your technique and wear a simple mask OSHA approved for wood dust (< $1.00 per mask)--you should be alright.
Most people can't or won't wear a simple or pleated mask for long duration, never mind a respirator. So this is where the Power Visor and like systems become attractive and realistic protective devices. They are much more comfortable, offer no resistance to breathing and a face shield to boot.
Hope this helps,
Joe Coty
I am not a physician and have not researched this subject in detail.
Erik, a "nuisance filter" means that it does not provide ANY respiratory protection just as 3M claims. However, they may offer other filters or cartridges that do provide the level of protection you want. To be NIOSH approved, the respirator must provide the level of protection that is appropriate for the material that the cartridge lists. If the cartridge is not the correct one for the contaminate, then you have no protection.
I have been working with members of the Rosewood family for some time now and I am allergic to some of them. Mostly skin rashes. I have found it to be essential to have a high volume DC connected to each workstation. Also, additional protection such as rubber gloves, barrier creams for skin protection, and face shields and dust masks for lathe work. (lathes tend to throw stuff everywhere) Planers, though producing mostly chips, will throw off a lot of dust from rough lumber. And, you probably won't know what kind of dust it may be.
My DC sets outside on the back of my workshop. So, residual dust leaking through the bags is not a great problem (till emptying the bags). If your DC is inside, then I recommend getting the 1 micron bags AND having a high volume dust filtration system.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
Here are some thoughts I have on the subject of air cleaners and health. They run in the face of many users but I know of no one in the industrial health field who disagrees.
It has always been my contention that there are no health benefits to an air cleaner. Here in the US, OSHA agrees that they do not remove enough of the dust in a short enough period to have any health benefits. No manufacturer of air cleaners makes any health claims, nor does anyone in the health industry AFAIK. The only place I see health claims is in places like this and those are from folks who purchased them under the impression that they do have health benefits. "The filters get dirty, so they must be doing something" is the frequent justification.
Robert Witter, Chief Engineer at Oneida Air Systems says: "Overhead cleaners can only lower ambient dust levels after the source of emission is shut down, and they take several hours to do this. This is why they are not used in industry."
In addition, most air cleaners are installed in a manner that places the operator directly in the air flow between the dust producing operation and the intake of the air cleaner. I don't know how many articles I have seen that say to install an overhead air filter "over the dust producing machine". This makes no sense and certainly not healthful. This placement guarantees that the operator's nose is between the dust producer and the air intake. At the very least, the air cleaner should be placed where exhaust is upstream of the operator and the dust producer is downstream of the operator.
While no one will argue that isolating your lungs from dust has healthful benefits, the only surefire way to do it is to either have very efficient dust collection at the source of the dust or to wear a properly fitted NIOSH (in the US) rated respirator. Rubber band dust masks do not meet NIOSH requirements.
Excellent Response....I believe you 100%.. Heres a trick you might want to try. Requires two people -
Put on your dust masks and with your dust collection system, (not filtration), running cut a few pieces of high dust producing wood (redwood comes to mind). At the same time have someone hold a normal house fan, on low, horizontally over the saw. What.... how can that be of any help you say... Try it, the dust will be all over the wood and the saw, but not in the air.
I believe that it is the positive pressure of the fan combined with the negative pressure of the DC that makes the dust stay put rather than becomming airborne.
This doesn't work with the fan on high because the pressure balance is not correct or something. Can you tell I'm not a physics major... LOL.
The only reason I ever thought about trying this was because my high school wood shop (recently revisited) has fresh air exhaust vents directly over all of the dust producing machines. They've been there since 1971 and remain there today. There has always been air circulation in the shop but it wasn't anything fancy, just a through the wall fan basically.
Which brings to mind another question. Why would anyone continuously try to filter the same dirty air. Doesn't it make more sense to bring in fresh clean air and blow the dirty stuff out the window or something.
Steve - in Northern California
Steve, nothing like a 20" portable fan stuck in a window blowing in fresh air. Of course, you need another window or door open to get the dust laden air out. Stand upwind of the dust producing operation and you will be much better off than mis-using an air cleaner.
AS to the above head air exhausts. That just about guarantees that your nose is between the dust producer and the exhaust. Not good. The operator must be upwind of the dust producer.
Howie, the last time I checked, my nostrils were on the bottom side of my nose not the top. LOL.... Seriously, the dust never leaves the area of about 1 ft above the table so in contradiction, your nose is not in the path. Try it, then tell me it doesnt work. I think you'll be suprised at the results.
Also a 20" portable fan blowing air in will do little more than keep the dust airborne. You have to suck the bad air out and use natural ventilation (vents, etc.) to provide the incoming air.
Steve - in Northern California
Edited 5/28/2002 5:32:04 PM ET by Steve Schefer
Aha, they are intakes blowing down. Didn't read that into your response at first. Sure, that would work fine even if your nostris are on the top of your nose.
LOL....Steve - in Northern California
Thanks, Joe, Steve, Howie, and others who provided input on this subject! Erik
To make things simpler:
1) remove dust at its source- dust collector
2)move a steady column of fresh air through the shop- fans
3)use a good quality dust mask when things get out of hand
4)filter ambient air- especially if the weather prohibits alot of outdoor air exchanges.
Frank
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