GUYS … need help before she changes her mind… after 12 years of nagging her I get to build my dream shop from the ground up. i am going overboard. I am putting in a dust collection system but was wondering if anyone has done or heard of putting the plumbing for it in to the cement floor. is there any problems with the system? anyone ever have a clog they needed to replace a pipe with?
Mac
Replies
Fww had an article where someone ran forms in the slab that would allow a 6 inch pipe. He then ran steel plates over it so he could access the pipe. I think you ned a away to ground it and clean it out.
Frank
My main dust collection duct for the TS runs under/in the concrete floor of the shop. It is a 6" PVC pipe with a 2" beside it. The 2 inch pipe has a 220 and two 110 circuits in it. The 6 inch 'Y's" in the dust collection room (6' x 6') and goes up toward the cyclone input. The straight leg of the Y continues out the back wall/floor to the outside where it is capped. If it were to jam up, the cap out back could be removed and then have a straight shot to the elbow up to the saw. Elbows leave the concrete at the TS -- 2" for the electrical wiring and 6"for the dust collection connection.
I very seriously doubt that it will ever clog since it only gets the sawdust from the table saw. All other ducts run on walls or the ceiling.
If I were going to permanently place tools around the shop. I would have run more but the TS is the only permanently positioned tool.
The dust collection from the TS is great as is having the electrical there.
Shophound,
I would recommend at least 6" and use wide radius elbows. I used 4" pvc plumbing and wish i would have used the wide radius stuff. I dont have problems with plugging, but the suction could be better.
The trench ideas and a separate conduit for electricity mentioned above seem like really good ideas.
I do love having the pipe buried and not having to deal with the overhead hoses.
Stevo
Ahhhh..... dream shop planning. one of my favorite pastimes.
For myself, I would not consider a concrete slab floor for a shop (unless I was into really big/heavy machinery). I would go with a crawl-space and a wood floor supported on trusses. Once you put something in a slab it's there forever and it's the dickens to rearrange. The crawl-space allows you to reconfigure dust collection, electrical, and plumbing as your needs and machinery change. It's also a lot easier on your back if you intend to stand in your shop for long hours. Warmer on the feet and easier on dropped tools too.
Weight should not be a problem as the trusses can be made deeper, shorter, or placed closer together in order to increase their capacity.
Just my 2 cents.
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral.
Frank Lloyd Wright
Edited 5/26/2006 8:58 am by Rennie
Congratulation on your shop. I considered a similar arrangement in my first shop and 2 shops later I wouldn't't consider underground ducting primarily because I don't want equipment placement constrained by duct work or wiring. My personal experience has been that my original configuration usually changed in a year or so and every time involved al least 1 piece of equipment that would have been otherwise tethered to in-floor ducting and electrical. I get a bit obsessive about installing lots of circuits/outlets in the ceiling and walls to insure that I have access to 120 and 240 power anywhere in the shop. Obviously, changing overhead ducting is relatively easy. One interesting aspect of overhead ducting, at least to me, the first thing visitors to my shop tend to focus on is the DC ducting and they usually comment about how professional the shop looks. Go figure.
To me, the perfect shop would have a raised foundation with a wood floor. Then you can locate ducting and electrical in the crawl space and enjoy the comfort and warmth of the wood floor and the flexibility to relocate equipment if need be.
Good luck and enjoy the shop!
If you are really building a DREAM shop, go back to sleep a bit longer so that you dream of a wooden floor for it. Maybe it will be wood panels over a vapor barrier on the slab, but wood nonetheless. (I believe a recent FWW issue featured that sort of floor.) If you sleep long enough you will probably want trusses over a crawl space as someone else suggests. 1X8s joists of short span beats concrete for dreaming. LOL & I'm jealous.
Cadiddlehopper
You hit the nail on the head. When you sink the pipes in to the cement and you have a clog there's not much you can do to get it out . Not to mention WHERE it may be clogged. and that is going to frustrate you to no end. Either go up into the attic or onto the ceiling or the outside wall. It will save you a big pain in the you know what later
Hi Mac,
That's what we use at school, in addition to ovrhead ducting. Use 6" or larger, and avoid tight bends, corrugations, and the usual air-flow killers. If you want to, you can install clean-outs (like those used in DWV) at intervals.
I'd talk to a consultant or dust collection system vendor before construction if I were you. System flexibility is enhanced with overhead ducts, but in-ground can work with careful planning and execution.
Please let us know how your dream workshop progresses: post pictures!
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Edited 5/27/2006 11:39 pm by jazzdogg
FWIW, I have underslab ducting running to a TS and a planer. I keep hearing about problems with clogging, but I've never had a problem. The pipe is a straight run, goes outside to a small shed where the DC is located. Were there ever to a clog, running some fish tape through the pipe should undo it.
I used ABS drain pipe; strong enough that it can be placed under a slab before a pour. Since it's made for drain pipe applications, the turns have much larger radius than those in PVC plumbing pipe.
Oh, and if you want a slab, don't let the naysayers ralk you out of it. Slabs are bullet-proof, low maintenance, easy to clean, and heavy loads roll over it effortlessly. If your feet get tired standing on a slab, then your shoes' cushioning is shot and a new pair is in order.
You wrote, "If your feet get tired standing on a slab, then your shoes' cushioning is shot and a new pair is in order."Now, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I've got eleven more years on my feet than you do on yours (I read your profile.), and at the end of the day my dogs are barkin. My shoes are new, they fit, they have padding, and there are rubber pads on my concrete floor. At 47, I'd probably have said the same. Wanta trade ages?Oh yeah. As for the original topic. I have a utility channel in my slab. Covered with plywood. The slab has radiant heat. I don't dislike the slab except for standing on it. Mines a commercial building designed for multiple uses. A wood floor was thought of, but rejected for the commercial viability of concrete.
I spend 11.5 hours a day in a carpenter shop on a concrete floor and my dogs are barking also. I spend as much time looking for comfortable shoes lately as checking out these pages. I've bought Born, Merrell and Red Wing in my efforts to find some relief.
All my electrical and dust collection comes in from overhead, but I've got 20' ceilings!
Saw
Trade? You can surely do better than some 47-year old has-been. Why not go for a 24-year old? ;)
You know, this whole wooden floor thing cries out for an episode of "Mythbusters". I'm just real skeptical about why one's feet should care where the cushioning is. What counts is the force exerted on the soles; whether that force is dampened by the shoes, a pad, or the floor structure, it should all be the same, no? In the absence of real testing and real data, it smells a little too "anecdotal" to me.
It should be simple enough to set up a controlled experiment to measure this. Hey, maybe this is an idea for a future FWW article!
Edited 5/30/2006 3:25 am by BarryO
I too would like to see a scientific test of this. Wood floor-cement floor - same shoes same amount of time.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
I think good old Norm Abram did one on an episode not sure though.
The toughest thing is getting your layout just right. You could run a central line with some offshoot lines for different machines, make sure you have some cleanouts throughout the system. If you do change your tool layout it may be easy enough to just run 5 feet of flexible line to the main hookup. You can have one line come in at the back of your work bench along a wall and use flex hose to connect tools along that run. So if you haven't already, sit down and draw out a scaled drawing with each major tool in place. If you make the tools from seperate pieces of paper you can arrange them in the space to see what works best. Remember the real world is going to be different than your scale drawing.
I have heard both sides slab over a trussed wood floor it is hard to say which is the best choice. If I did do a slab I would also run radiant floor heat (depends where you are). The cost of running the PEX in the slab is not too bad (depends on your shop size) but a 30x40 shop would not be too expensive to run the lines. Because you don't need to run lines every square foot, around the perimeter, in a office or bathroom space and where you do most of your work.
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