OK, guys, I need some help here. I’m using a PC690 to rout out ~3″ square recesses in 3/4″ stock, using a template and bushing. What in the heck do I do about dust collection?! Shavings flying all over creation — front, back, sides — no consistent place to stick a vacuum hose. I was able to fasten vac to the router with an attachment facing in toward the bit, but because stuff flies in so many different directions, it didn’t really help much. Makes my drill press look downright neat and tidy!
Any suggestions? Details: working with the stock (4″W x 12″ long) nestled inside a holding frame, with a square template resting on top.
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Replies
Face shield and dust mask......I know not the answer you want......other than my router table, I've never had real good luck sucking up debris from my 690 or any other for that matter.
Jimmy
as always I wish you enough
FG, do you have the PC dust collection attachment (item 39360) for the 690? It consists of a sub-base with vac port and a detachable cup below the base for edge routing. It's worked very well in my experience.
I think I have that attachment (there's something in there that looks like a vac attachment), but this isn't edge routing. I'm routing out the inside of the board, making little square recesses, so nothing can hang down from the edge.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I guess I wasn't clear enough; the PC dust collection attachment is a sub-base with a vac port, and it will work for your application. The edge-routing cup is a detachable piece, which wouldn't be used in this case.
I think the PC model number is 39690 for the base plate. $45 is a bit steep when you can make it yourself with a $4.00 dust chute and scrap plywood. Also, if you put the 2 1/2" port on it, you can hook it up to the DC quite nicely.
FG: This may not be the answer but may help, how about a floor sweep
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=13204
to help catch what ever you can. It 24" wide so you may get some efficiently from using it. As I said its just an idea maybe worth a shot. good luck. Ben
The dust sweep idea crossed my mind. I'm picking up my dust collector the 2nd weekend in April, but may not have my 220V hookup yet. I'll keep the sweep in mine, though, it might be a good solution. Or the version that has a holder that positions the big "mouth" above the floor in various positions.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
So I take it you're using a shop vac now instead of a DC?
The DC should help tremendously. Example: I was routing shapes with a template on the router table a while back, with the template carpet-taped to the stock and a flush-trim bit. So no fence used in this operation. Even with the DC pickup set a good 10-12 inches or so back from the bit, the chips would fly off the bit, and arc right over to the DC pickup mounted on the Rockler fence. This is with it hooked up to a 2 HP Grizzly DC.
Sounds like I'd better keep my cat out of the shop, LOL! Yeah, I'm looking forward to real dust collection. I'll have to get out my electrical book and wire up that 220 outlet first, though. Don't know what got into hubbie when he had the electrician guy out -- had him put in the new panel, wire for 220, and run the wire to an outlet box, but he didn't have him put in the outlet!!! Sheesh. Oh well, I luv him anyway.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Yea, my kids call it "The Mother of All Vacuum Cleaners". When you set up it, definitely install one of those floor-mounted sweeps. Makes clean-up time fun: just sweep the sawdust with a broom toward the vicinity of the sweep, and sawdust disappears.
The electrician probably didn't install the outlet because there a several choices, and they must match the plug. The best type is the twist-lok type. You need a 3-wire 240V-only grounded outlet, at the appropriate amperage, NOT a 120V/240V outlet.
This type of circuit has two hot conductors, and a ground. The hot wires should be colored black and red, and the ground bare or green. If the electrician ran 2-conductor w. ground Romex for the circuit, they shoiuld have put some red tape around the white conductor to indicate that it is not a neutral, but many don't bother.
Thanks for the details, Barry. I'm going to take a look at that box today.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Maybe leave the router aside and with a 3" hole saw, drill the holes, square up with a chisel, and affix this stock to the base stock...
Sorry, Jackplane, the procedure is set. I'll post pics of a few of these in a few days, but I'm set on solid boards.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Can you combine the holding frame with a downdraft table, like a sanding table? Or modify the frame to be a box with a hold for a vacuum hose? That should capture some, maybe even most of the chips.
Hi Paul. Yep, a downdraft may be the way to go in the long run. I have a big downdraft table, but the switch is broken and I haven't found a new one yet (some fancy HVAC type thing, just haven't taken the time to look for it). May be doing that sooner than later!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie, I'd say your down-draft table is the best solution. When I'm routing, I resent even the power cord for creating drag on the router...I can't imagine having a dust collection hose to drag around as well.
I've been using my new, home made sanding table for a few months now and it works pretty well. I think I need to incorporate some bench dogs or something to hold the materials in place, tho.
Otherwise I rout in a way that the chips can go only in a certain direction that is confined and easily vacuumed/swept. Not an easy problem to solve! Lofton
I haven't tried this yet, but I have an idea. The Festool routers have a dust port built in, and I'm thinking of a similar trick. Here goes: Take three layers of 1/4" plywood (or lexan), make the top and bottom rectangular and so that they are about 8" x 12". Make the middle rectangular on the outside, but cut out a channel on one side for the dust to travel through. Glue them together, cut a hole through the top piece which will reach the channel in the middle. Attach a 2 1/2" dust port to the top of this new base.
Some variation of this should work, maybe make the middle piece 3/8" or 1/2".
Ahhhhhh, the light bulb is flickering! That design might be the start of something. One of the things that happens is that much of the debris settles in the recess as the router passes, and then gets blown up and out by the airflow. I might be able to rig up a layered base that covers the whole area, but allows the chips to go up into a hollow area that's emptied by a vacuum.
Can't get to work on that one right away, but will definitely ruminate on it and take a look next week. Thanks!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Let me build on your idea.How about replacing the router base with a base that has a port for suction out the side.So two pieces of 1/4 stock sandwich a heavier stock but a channel is cut in the heavier stock and a vac attachment is mounted against the side of the router base (positioned so it does not hang below the base).See the attached pic.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
That's pretty much what I was thinking, making a new base, that is. Thanks for the better illustration. I thought of the bigger base with the dust port on top because a 1 1/4" hose on the side would cause problems (the base would need to be 1 1/2" thick, which is too high for the bit). The real trick is to get it so that the whole situation is balanced. Having a heavy vac attachment on the back of the router could tilt it and cause a big headache.
Now that I think about it, if you made the template with the three piece construction, that could work out really great. That is, make your current template the top piece and cut a hole for the dust port. Be sure that the dust port is far enough away that the router won't hit it. Make the bottom roughly the same as the top and make the middle piece 3/8" thick with the inside missing. Hey, maybe I'll get a set of free chisels or a new saw for this tip!!!
Another big issue will be the thickess of the base. Some bits won't be long enough so you'll need an extender or to purchase extra long bits...edit: Now I've re-read your post I see you mentioned that as well.Get your circle cutter out and get to work...I want a prototype on this web site by tomorrow :-)MarkMeasure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Edited 3/23/2005 12:24 pm ET by Mark
Tool... Not knocking what you have there.. BUT..
Some time ago I made a vacuum plate sort of the way you did. However not a oval.. I used diagonal slots.. Hooked my 'thing' up to a good old shop-vac...
Well, to make a long story short the vacuum would sometimes 'LOCK' the router to the work.. Drove me nuts.. Even spoiled some cuts when it decided to grab the work.
Let me know if yours works.....
Oh, I don't make these things. I just tell other people what to make. Then, if it works, I get all the credit. If it fails, well, that's operator error. Career in management looming...
Career in management looming..
Hell, I was in Marketing! I hears ya!
Jamie, I know what you're talking about. That's why I try to use my router table as much as possible, but once in a while, you just have to bite the bullet and sweep and vacumn after the job is done. I've hooked up a 4" hose to a shop built hood sitting as close as possible to the job, but most of the time it just keeps the dust out of the air. You've still got a vacumn job when you finish.
Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
I know what your doing so this is cheating. Raise the template up with another piece of ply and put a vaccum attachment on the template. It means your going to have to mess with your height settings. It will suck down most of the dust.
My $.02, use your drill press and forstner bit to hog out the majority of the material, then switch to your router and template. This will eliminate 90% of your problem. Router table or down draft table are good ideas for the other 10%.
Good Luck,
Todd
Hi Todd. I appreciate your thoughts here, but this project's design does not permit the use of a Forstner bit or any other drill-press option. I gnashed my teeth over the process for a couple weeks before settling on the router-template approach. It sounds like I'll be able to control the dust (better anyway) by raising up the template using one of the suggestions above.
If you want details on why I can't use a Forstner bit, drop me a liine and I'll email you a picture.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I gnashed my teeth over the process
Dang it even hurt me reading it!
Forest,
A few machines I have given up with, when it comes to dust collection is the router, the router table when used free without a fence, the shaper when used free hand and the lathe.
The only solution is a floor sweep, connected to a 4" dust collector hose and a broom, with quick clean up after each operation. A shop vac does the clean up just as quick.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20781&item=4366305003&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
There's one on Ebay right now. But even retail it seems to be about forty dollars. Not too bad when you figure how long it will take you to piece something together.
Usually if a jig is offered for sale by the manufacurer it will be cheaper than me engineering and building it. I always think of how much I charge to build and apply that to the equation.
But if you need it immediately then its different.
Hey, they stole our idea :-)How'd they get it to production so fast?Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
They're watching...they control everything.woooooooooooo...scary.
Hey, adastra, thanks!!! That picture was definitely worth 1000 words, and it has solved a mystery for me. What I have rattling around in a drawer is the 1/2-cup-sorta-thing that is on the bottom of the assembly. I think what's going on is this: my 690 was bought new, but my PC plunge router was bought used from a WWer in another town. I suspect that the edge-vac thingie was in the box o' stuff he gave me, but the rest must have been somewhere else in his shop. I know for sure I don't have the sub-base part. Darn! Oh well, it came with the super-fancy micro-adjust fence, so I can't complain.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
have rattling around in a drawer is the 1/2-cup-sorta-thing that is on the bottom of the assembly...
I dropped my shot Glass?
Thanks for pointing that out! I bid on it and won :-) My shop is covered with dust from the melamine I was routing yesterday (my respirator was on at least) so I decided enough was enough. With shipping came out to $28. Steve
Jamie, I've got a 690 also, when I rout dados and tenons I stop every so often an run the shop vac.
I made a jig that holds the end of my shopvac hose on the bench next to where I rout, it does some good, but not much.
Let me know if you come up with a better mousetrap, please!!
Regards,
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled