Help
I’m outfitting a 20×15 woodworking shop in my finished basement (meaning that aside from the room where the tools are, there’s a family room, laundry room. etc., etc., down there where we spend a lot of time). I’ve got router, miter saw, tablesaw, bandsaw, drill press, and bringing in a jointer and planer. These recent studies on fine dust particles and health issues have my family and I worried, to say the least. In fact I’ve been working with the same but portable tools for several years and have been dusting the house and my family constantly…
My question is this. Anyone know of “off the shelf” systems I can select from that will collect the heavier dust and pipe the finer particles out a hole in the wall? Thanks much,
Jack
Replies
Look into cyclones. They can function just like you describe. Most of the waste goes in a container underneath the cyclone and the exhaust air containing some very fine dust can be routed to a filter or directly to the outdoors.
The problem with exhausting outside is the loss of heated or cooled air in your shop.
Ed
Thanks, Ed
now I'm wondering, if I am pumping air out, do I need a system bringing air in? I realize it's another heating/cooling issue. Thanks.
If your shop shares space with a gas heater there is a good chance that harmful and possibly lethal carbon monoxide exhaust fumes can be sucked back into the shop unless there is provision (such as an open window) for makeup air into the space. So, yes, you do need to consider makeup air if you vent outside.
I've read about systems for tempering (heating or cooling) makeup air in commercial finishing operations but have never heard of it for hobbyist wood shops. Hopefully a cyclone user who vents outside will post their thoughts on makeup air. My own cyclone (an Oneida 2 h.p.) exhausts into the shop with a filter.
Ed
Dear Syke,
I have a 3 hp Oneida cyclone that is vented outside and it works great. It does remove heated / cooled air, but that only becomes an issue during long runs, say planing, where I may have the DC running for hours instead of minutes. I do take care to make sure that I have "make up" air coming in. I have a dedicated shop that is heated via woodstove. It is leaky enough, that I don't get any backdrafting with the DC on and all of the doors and windows closed, but I always open a window, preferably one closest to the machine that I am using, to minimize the wasted air.
I would think that you are on the right track, although a finished basement should be much tighter than my shop. Therefore, make up air is a big concern. The first thing I would do, is to have any utilities, such as furnace/ boiler etc., fitted with a kit that allows it to pull fresh air from outside. They are simple enough operations, typically 4" metallic pipe, that is run to a penetration in a side wall and fitted with a hood similar to a dryer hood, except that it is designed to draw in air. I had the local oil company fit mine in my house, just for safety and efficiency. Once that is done, I would look at make up air for the DC. If you are disciplined enough to open a window EVERYTIME, then fine, if not then a vent of some type is in order. I would contact Oneida as they will help you design the system and they could offer suggestions as to how much ventilation you may need.
http://www.oneida-air.com/
Best,
John
Edited 3/5/2008 9:12 am ET by Jmartinsky
John, thanks,
I have no doors or windows in the shop room, but I do have about 6 inches about grade that I could cut a hole. I've written to Oneida and Penn State Industries and look forward to their replies. I was looking at the cyclones on their websites, and others, but haven't seen a cyclone showing the small particle vent going anywhere but to a bag or canister. Seems logical you could skip the bag/canister and vent outside which is why I started the post. So, if you have a 3hp doing the above, then I guess the system doesn't somehow rely on the pressure in the bag/canister to work properly.
jack
Dear Jack,
My system is a good six or seven years old. There are times when it sits, unused for six moths and then I am running it nonstop, seven or eight hours a day, five days a week for a month, so I think that I am fairly hard on it. It has been just bulletproof. The system does not rely on the filters for back-pressure, in fact, Oneida told me that I would get somewhat better performance, due to the lack of restriction. I called Oneida and spoke with them extensively prior to purchase, they are low pressure, very easy to deal with. I am glad that you are taking make up air seriously, because the cyclone push a lot of air. You don't need anything fancy, but you will need something.Best,John
I found this interesting statement on Oneida's site:
Point being, filters are a dust source, but so is dust lost at the tool. Venting outside will not address this source.
Ed
Dear Ed,
Another point is that unless I let the bin overfill, the cyclone on its own catches virtually everything. I have done major milling operations after a snowfall and even though the exhaust is angled down and only about 42" from ground level, it never discolors the snow. The dust bin contains not only chips, but dust down to a talcum consistency, again, that is with just the cyclone, no filtering. Your point is well taken, but I still like the exterior exhaust.Best,John
John,
Yes indeed it is a marvelous gadget. I too see a lot of very fine dust in the collector bin. I just cleaned the trap under the filter on mine. There was maybe a quart of 'flour' in there, accumulated over the past year. During that time I processed several hundred feet of rough lumber (mahogany, cherry and maple) plus a few (six?) sheets of plywood and mdf into finished items.
I'm not arguing against outside venting. What I get from that Oneida quote is that outside venting (or a HEPA filter) alone won't completely address the air quality issues the original poster was concerned with. I hadn't thought about it that way until this thread came up so thanks to all for adding to my understanding of the shop dust subject.
I do run a JDS air cleaner whenever I'm creating sawdust. I know it's not very efficient at catching those last few stray bits of floating wood but I figure it's better than nothing. The JDS prefilter takes on a pinkish color as it catches the stuff in the air so I know it's getting at least some of it.
Ed
Dear Ed,
I have the same setup, JDS air cleaner, for the same purpose. I find that it does help with the ambient MDF dust, in particular. It used to be that after a day in the shop, the next morning I would find a layer of fine dust on everything. No doubt "residual" that the DC didn't get. With the JDS, that has eliminated that situation. In my shop, the big offender is the TS. PM66, the downdraft is not very effective, and I find that the back of the blade tends to launch a fair amount of dust. I do not like an overarm guard, so I can live with the TS. Best,John
Ed,
That is interesting. It's one of those things that has been on my mind since I became interested in improving the dust collection in my workshop. I found this thread through a quick Google search: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=44601
The original poster in the thread had Bill Pentz out to evaluate his dust collection. To make a long story short, the filters and the cyclone were doing their job, however the dust collection hoods were not. Bill Pentz responded to the poster himself, he is a snip from it:
Test results are showing some very consistent things. Those who setup their shops with a regular through airflow (open big door in front and fans in the rear) have no significant buildup of residual dust, but every one who closed the doors had had residual dust problems regardless of dust collector, cyclone, filters, or air cleaner. Evern more imporatnt, every shop I've tested no matter how good the airflow ended up with problems if their hoods did not do a really good job of blocking, trapping, and collecting the dust. Likewise, even with good hoods, those systems that did not move enough air also had problems with very high dust levels following our test cuts. I just cannot emphasize enough that our hoods have to block, control and capture the dust plus we need to move the air and then get rid of that fine dust. The only other issue this testing is showing is the huge numbers of very fine particles that are going through the filters along with a few failed filters that woodworkers thought were working just fine.
I find this statement very interesting. It seems that Bill has come to the same conclusion as Onieda. The statement does leave a few gaps, it seems to me that none of the shops tested had adequate hoods (since all shops without regular airflow 'failed'). Which begs the question, can we actually build adequate hoods for all the tools? I have trouble imagining adequate hoods for some of the more aggressive dust producers.
Bill stresses that we must collect the dust at the source, however if we can not capture the dust at the source is all our collection work for nothing? I don't think so, but when do we reach a point of diminishing returns?
Buster
<!----><!----><!---->
Thanks for the link. Interesting discussion. For ultimate protection in a closed space, I think Galopin has the only answer: a powered respirator.
For me, I've weighed the benefits of woodworking (many) against the risk (low) and decided to continue in the craft. I'm always looking for ways to improve my dust collection but any changes must not be at the expense of reasonable convenience. The external hose which Galopin uses is certainly effective and would work well where there is little operator movement such as lathe work but for general shop work I would find it too restrictive. A shopmate of mine had an external hose setup for a while but abandoned it because of the limited movement.
I do think we should all chip in and erect a monument to Bill Pentz :)
I'll close by including something useful in this post. This is a pic of my setup for capturing hand-held router dust. The green hose is hooked up to a port on the router and leads to a Fein shop vac. The clear 5" hose goes to the cyclone. The work rests on T supports which effectively channel air and dust to the 5" hose.
Ed
I'm glad I started this thread. From it and further research, I've learned a great deal and it's making for a tough decision. Here's a question from another angle. Anyone out there have the Oneida 2.5hp portable? Would it do a "fabulous" job against an PM2000 tablesaw and Laguna 16HD bandsaw used one at a time? thanks again,
jack
ps: I'm a bit concerned now about the problems I could cause in the house with outside venting...
If you really want to vent outside, you might consider a heat exchanger. They are typically used in tightly sealed houses to bring fresh air in and exhaust hot air out without losing all of the heat. However, your application may not justify the cost ($700 and up??). You might find something cheaper.
One reference:
http://www.toolbase.org/Technology-Inventory/HVAC/energy-recovery-ventilators
Good luck!
An air to air exchanger would have to be very large to handle the quantity of air being moved by a dust collector.
John W.
Well, it might work out...
A 5-ton HVAC unit puts out about 2000 CFM I think, and a 2 HP dust collector only puts out 1500-1600...
I could be wrong, I'm not an HVAC guy...it was just a suggestion.
Dear Jack,
I have the 3HP Oneida, and it will easily service three machines simotaniously, BUT...... It's not just about HP or air movement. It is about the balance of the system. The folks at Oneida designed my system and it works flawlessly. Some runs have as much as 60' of pipe and hose, but the system is designed in such a way that when I open a blast gate, say 20' from the DC, it doesn't rob the longer runs of draw. I would expect that the 2.5 HP would be more than adequate to service those two machines.
Jack, just to clarify, with my system, with just one blast gate open, the draw borders on alarming. These things are like a hurricane once they get going. I had no idea how powerful they were until I started mine up and let me tell you, six years later, I am still impressed. Best,John
You hit the nail on the head here with "I open a blast gate, say 20' from the DC, it doesn't rob the longer runs of draw."For one person shops a 2-3 hp cyclone will do the job unless one really screws up with multiple 90* tight bends and a small diameter pipe.My jointer is at the end of about 35-38 feet of 7" pipe with 4 (not a typo) 90* bends (large radius) and the suction is incredible. The blast gates are good metal ones and I only use one tool at a time.Cheers,Peter
It seems to me there are no diminishing returns. Once the lungs are destroyed that is it. Also, having read Pentz's stuff it appears that most of us have chip collection not dust collection systems. I think the most important single improvement would be to have the DC outside the shop and a source of fresh outside air in on the opposite side of the shop.
I personally do not have this setup but think I could just position my TS, Planer, Jointer, router table, etc near my garage doors, leave them slightly open and run the hoses from the outside shop vac and DC into the shop under the doors .
If I built a dedicated shop I would put the DC in an outside vented "closet" and duct the piping through the wall into the shop then to the machines. Just having the exhaust of the DC outside the shop would almost completely eliminate toxic invisible airborne dust in the shop air.
Whoa... This is an old thread! I'll have to think back to what my original thoughts were...
I think the point I was getting at was that Mr. Pentz own testing seems to indicate that in the end even carefully constructed dust collection systems are barely adequate. Further he seems to indicate that a cross flow of air that is directed outside seems to work as well. A solution which could be done for under $100.
Mr. Pentz has provided a huge service to woodworkers, until I read the thread I alluded to in my previous post I was always disappointed that it never reference any actual air quality testing with his final setup (at the time of my initial read through). I have a healthy respect for his work, however I think he stresses HIS cyclone design too much rather than focusing on actual dust collection.
However I don't think many of is fans really understand what he's trying to do. In the end a cyclone does absolutely NOTHING if you do not have the proper collectors at the source. If you do not have collection above and below the cutters (in most cases) your wasting your money on a cyclone. Enough material will be ejected into the air that you defeat the purpose. This is the point of the posting, all the shops fail because: they don't collect appropriately or they collect and don't have airflow.
Your idea for your current and dream shop has a problem. You'll suck all the warm or cold air out of your shop. If you live in the perfect climate year round then maybe this isn't an issue, most of us don't. Finally if you do not have enough airflow, or the proper collectors you've only dealt with 1/3 of the problem: The air that escapes the filters.
Buster,
I'm located in a climate that if I were to direct vent to the outside in colder months (read about 8 months of the year) it would be so cold that I couldn't work in the shop. Not exactly what I would prefer.
My DC is capable of filtering down to 1 micron. With the uncaptured dust and the presumably less than 1 micron dust that is still in the air how is one to get it 100% clean? In my mind the only way would be to direct vent it outside.
With the DC kept in the enclosed working environment it is in effect inviting the worst dust into the woodshop instead of getting rid of it completely.
Guess I'd better start packing everything up and move south!
Regards, Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Same here, it's currently 28F outside. It costs to heat the shop, I don't intend to push it all outside.
While I think dust collection is important I think we need to be realistic. Spending $$$$ to get everything hooked up but not using proper collectors at the tools... Further only about half my work on a project is done on stationary tools. I use a respirator for the rest, but even with a vacuum dust gets ejected in the air.
One thing I think you might want to consider if you haven't already is to get an overhead air filter ala JDS type. I did an experiment and left it off while I ran several boards through my tS. After a while I noticed a noticeable film of dust on everything.
Turned on the air filter and cleaned all surfaces up with the Shopvac while wearing a respitaror. The filter on the respirator was coated with fine dust.
I returned to the woodshop a while later and the surfaces were still clean, air filter still running. With a new filter in the respirator I commenced to saw more boards thru the TS with the DC & air filter running all the time. About ½ hour later no noticeable film but a wipe of the hand did reveal a small amount. Respirator was not nearly as bad but there was some dust.
So, even with all the weapons in my arsenal in use it still isn't perfect and I doubt it ever will be, but is a lot better. My conclusion is that your best approach is to get it all at the source if you can before it becomes airborne. That's my focus at present.
I also think that we need to keep one thing in mind, especially when trying to adapt older equipment to dust collection. It doesn't appear that dust collection was considered as important or recognized as a problem as we realize today. Older machines aren't typically designed with effective dust collection in mind.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
The air cleaner is on my list. I'd like to rig up something local for sanding as well, get it through filters right away rather than waiting for it to work it's way up to the ceiling.
One thought though: Are these filters really filtering the small particles out of the air or are they just keeping it suspended?
First off I need to tell you that I'm no expert with this and what I suggest is/are things that I'm working on to make my system better. My general feeling is that the closer to what Mr. Pentz recommends the better off I'll be.
Couple of things: I installed a HEPA filter in my air filter to increase its filtering capacity. I do have to clean it more often than before. Think that's a good thing. As to whether it's just keeping dust suspended, all I can say is that the woodshop is a lot cleaner than when I started. That's definitely progress and the respirator is a lot cleaner after a session in the shop.
I tried using it under the outfeed table but it wasn't as effective as when suspended; too many obstacles I think. You also want to situate it so as to not have the dust being sucked into your face as you're working. Mine draws the dust away from me when operating the TS.
You will notice that the air circulates around the shop once it has been running for while; kinda like a ceiling fan does. Mine is running all the time I'm in the woodshop if I know I will be generating dust. When using handtools I don't bother with it. Downsdie: The electric bill is a wee bit higher but a lot less than a hospital visit...........
As to sanding I think that operation can be worse than the TS in that the cooling fan in the sander sprays a lot of dust around and once its airborne, well you know the rest of that yarn.
Anyway, I'm currently making a downdraft as part of the outfeed table for a sanding station. I'm drilling a grid of ½" holes in the top then counter boring the top create cones for better collection. I will add two collection receptacles like the one I use for the RAS/CMS Station connected to a Y under the table which is then gated into a 4" run from the DC.
If you haven't already seen it, I posted a blog in the Woodworking Life here on FWW that has some pics of what I have done so far if you'd like to have a look. It's off the Home page here.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/4/2008 1:51 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Someone mentioned somewhere, I don't recall whether it was here or elsewhere, about filtering the return air from a closeted (but not necessarily gay, not that there's anything wrong with that) dust collector. I think it's a very good and relatively inexpensive solution: Put the dust collector in a closet. Install a large-area vent in the closet door or wall to return the air back into the shop. Put lots of good weatherstripping around the inlet penetration and the closet door so that the exhaust air can only go through the vent. Install a HEPA furnace filter over the vent. The combination of the DC in the closet and HEPA filters will give you an overall 0.3 micron filtering efficiency.
You'll have to do a little bit of research to determine how large a filter area you'll need to avoid back-pressuring the DC at full flow. Some HEPA filters can be cleaned, too, so although the up front cost is not insignificant (maybe $100 or so), you may not have to replace them very frequently.
-Steve
I am looking into buying a cyclone, been on my A list for a while now. I am considering the <!----><!----><!---->Oneida<!----><!----> or Grizzly 3HP system. I talked to <!----><!---->Oneida<!----><!----> about putting it in a closet and they told me I would need an18 square feet openning to move enough air to prevent interfering with the airflow. If you add filters, you will need to increase that size to account for airflow restriction created by the filter. Seems like a good idea but that may turn out to be impractical.
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Bob T.
I'm not surprised that the opening has to be fairly large, although I think they're being overly conservative. They're undoubtedly assuming that the input to the cyclone is unrestricted, so that it's pulling its full rated CFM, something that will never happen in practice.
You could, in principle, add a booster blower that reduces the static pressure that the cyclone sees. Of course, a big enough blower is going to set you back more than a few bucks....
-Steve
Steve,
I've been thinking about this backpressure thang and it would sem to me that you're more likely to experience the problem with the filter being clogged rather than from the closet filters.
I'm assuming that you would need at least the same square footage for the closet as you have in the DCs filter, Yes?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/4/2008 3:18 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 3/4/2008 3:19 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
"I'm assuming that you would need at least the same square footage for the closet as you have in the DCs filter, Yes?"
Quite a bit more, to be safe. I would use at least double the square footage as a starting point, and increase if any back pressure is noticed (as would be evidenced by air moving past the door seals).
If only I had a setup where building a closet was an option.... Someday.
-Steve
Steve,
Thanks for the input. Now I'll be looking for filter material. Would you suggest HEPA?
It's too bad this isn't/can't be linked to the blog on the Home page. Lots of good info. in here that would be good to have on the blog.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
HEPA is good. HEPA is expensive. HEPA can also be fairly restrictive, so you might need to increase the filter area.
I would probably try the top-of-the-line 3M Filtrete filters first. They're not HEPA, but they're a whole lot cheaper. The downside of Filtrete filters is that the airflow goes down quite a bit as they get filled up with dust.
-Steve
The downside of Filtrete filters is that the airflow goes down quite a bit as they get filled up with dust.
One would hope that your DC is using approriate filters as well. Hopefully the loading would take some time.
Right, but the point is that the "final" filters are going to get the ultra-fine stuff that manages to escape the DC, and that ultra-fine stuff is very good at clogging filters.
-Steve
Steve,
Were on the same page man. So no stress.
Since I'm in a new shop maybe I'll follow Bob's lead and outline my DC solution.
Buster
"Were on the same page man. So no stress."
Is that Canadian for, "Chill, dude"?
-Steve
Steve,
Buster's cool. Me half Canadian French too; you know, where they park the cars side by each! Or, how about, "throw me down the stairs my suitcase to me".
Anyway, can these Filtrete filters be cleaned and reused? If so, then that wouldn't be a big deal. I was curious about how fine they were as my DC claims to filter down to 1 micron. It has a heavy felt bag. Going from no DC at al and using this one I can actually breathe the difference.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/4/2008 8:27 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
I know Buster's cool. I'm just playing along, eh? You're such a hemifrog.*
I don't think you can clean Filtrete filters. Some HEPA filters can be cleaned, some cannot. The Gore CleanStream filters (available in both "really good" and HEPA) can be washed. Unfortunately, they don't come in flat form, except in really itty-bitty sizes for use inside vacuum cleaners.
-Steve
*I'm sitting here in front of the computer with a glass of ouzo, so I'm not responsible for anything that comes out of my fingertips.
I don't think you can clean Filtrete filters.
I have a dirty one sitting beside my furnace right now... Any suggestions on how to clean it? I could probably blow compressed air from the the opposite side. How clean it will actually get is the question. The only problem with cleaning filters is that it kicks so much dust into the air!
Last winter I needed to empty the bag on the DC, it was a nice warm day (about 4 C) so I figured I might as well clean the filters as well. I always do this on the drive, well by the time I was finished my nice snowy white lawn and turned a light shade of walnut... I had a similar experience in the summer with my neighbours newly washed car (in my defence I was cleaning the filter when he got home...) You do get some strange looks from passerbys when you're all geared up with mask and all...
I know Buster's cool.
Shucks guys... You two aren't so bad either.
I'd be worried about damaging the filter media with compressed air. If you keep the nozzle far enough away, you're probably okay. But, as with the DC filter, you're going to have dust going every which way.
Best to do it when the wind is blowing towards the neighbor you like the least.
-Steve
In terms of "cleaning" furnace and other high-cost filters, I've been vacuuming mine for years. Using the brush accessory for either a shop vac or a home canister style vac, you can lift a lot of the accumlated dust off a filter with no damage to the filter. I can make a high-end Filtrete filter last a couple of years in my furnace this way.
Ditto my shop's homemade air filter and circulation system. It's just a 20x20 inch furnace filter slapped onto the intake side of a box fan. It's set up by where I sand, and it catches quite a bit of the dust that comes off a sander.
You won't be able to remove 100% of the dust and fine particles with a vacuum. But if you do it often enough it's a reasonable solution. Not recommended by the manufacturer, of course...
Your vacuum filter has to be pretty good too, or the dust will get blown out the back and sent up into the air. I mostly do the vacuuming outside, so that's generally not a problem.
Don't call me cheap; just frugal...
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
And we're supposed to trust the judgment of a man who drinks break fluid?
-Steve
Steve,
Break fluid can be anything from coffee to beer. Brake fluid on the other hand is an entirely different matter.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Steve,
You guys! Gimme a brake - er, break...
Now I'm onto Jackie Moon wanting you to kill possums..
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Zolton,
I tried to shoot that damn possum but it kept dying 'for I could pull the trigger
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
So that's what was causing that smell emanating off your posts?
Keep that dust collector going man. You're going to need all the fresh air you can get...
Hey, I liked seeing the photos of your setup in the blog. It makes the descriptions come to life.
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
"If you add filters, you will need to increase that size to account for airflow restriction created by the filter. Seems like a good idea but that may turn out to be impractical."
Most filters are pleated. The thicker the filter the more surface area. a 24" square filter may actually have 75% more surface area. I just guessed but you'd have to do the math for a more accurate picture.
Jack,
Many DCs, and air filtration systems now filter down to 1 micron and keep the warm/cool air inside the building. Mine are all 1 micron (except my TS which I will upgrade from 5 to 1 micron) and I have no issues with dust migration.
Thanks, GRW,
the 1 micron option was what I was looking at, but my wife's been reading (a dangerous thing) that smaller than 1 micron particles are real danger.
I agree with your wife GRW and that is why I bought a 3/4 hp powered air purifying respirator from North safety.com. I have an air pump taking the air from outside the house and then no more particules in my lumbs and my eyes. I use a full face mask. The hose is not a problem because I don't have to walk much in my shop which is in the basement.
Galopin
If you are really worried about small particles, there is nothing other than a NIOSH approved respirator that will keep virtually 100% of the dust out of your lungs. No dust collection system or air filtration system will do it.Just to clear up one point. A "cyclone" is only a separator of larger dust particles from smaller ones. It is not the only separator and many dust collection systems are two-stage in that they also separate the particles.Howie.........
Thanks, all, for the replies, advice, and expertise. I went with the 2.5hp Oneida portable dual cyclone. Should have it in a week. And I'll get the respirator...
jack
This site leaves very few questions unanswered.
http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
Frankly, I live on a farm, and I pipe the whole kit'n'kaboodle out the wall. I got my system from Oneida and simply told them I don't want the collector part.
It works great because there's no resistance or back pressure. The caveat is I'm sure I'm pulling out heated air in the winter months.
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