Hello All,
I’m in the process of setting up a small shop (12’x12′) in my basement and the last few projects that I’ve been working on have created a lot of dust. I’m concerned about the health affects of all the dust for everyone in the family — so I’m starting the process of looking at dust collectors. I don’t need anything super fancy or very big as i’m only working on tool at a time — I just need it to suck up the harmful dust. Also, I can duct it outside if I need to. I’ve read a lot of the posts about all of the different models but I”m just confused as to what is the best type and the sizing. Any info related to small shops would be great if you could share!
Thanks so much!
David
Replies
Depends greatly on the tools, what are you running?
John W.
John,Right now it's just a table saw, router, miter saw, and a palm sander and random orbit sander....that's about it -- nothing to fancy.Thanks,
David
A standard shop vac would work well enough with all of those tools, with the possible exception of the table saw. What specific model is the saw?
Pick up on the rest of the machines is mostly dependent on how well they are designed to be hooked up to a dust collector hose.
John W.
The table saw is a Craftsman (21805) portable that I got as a gift last year. I'm not too concerned about the big pieces that come off the tools, it's the finer dust that can come off because a couple of people im my family has asthma issues....
I wonder if a dust filter system (whole room) like several companies make that hang from the ceiling would help. I have a dust collection system in place (sort of) in the new shop and have thought about adding one of these. My thinking is that the dust that settles on things other then the tools that are being activlly used is airborn and thus this system my limit that type of dust. Then again I have never used one nor seen one in use so I really do not know.
Doug Meyer
All of your tools, including your table saw, have small dust ports and you will get the best dust pick up with a shop vac. The larger bag and cyclone types of dust collectors bog down and don't pick up well through the very small dust ports that your machines have. A shop vac will also be less expensive and much easier to move around compared to a larger bag type dust collector. You can get dust cartridges for the shop vacs that capture the finest dust.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Edited 1/24/2007 2:40 pm ET by JohnWW
John,
I'm also in the market for dust collection. Mine would be for a Jet 3 hp cabinet saw, 20"planer and possibly my 6" jointer. I have a pretty well equipped hobby shop and produce a lot of shavings and dust. I have to admit I am a little confused by the choices in hp, canister vs. bags, and what is that garbage can apperatus? I think I could wheel my system around to each machine as needed. Any insight would help.
Thanks,
Wolfman
I strongly recommend the Delta 50-760. It's a great value and it sucks (that's a good thing in a DC.) I liked it because of the 1 micron filter. It runs on 110, but I converted to 220 - it draws a lot of current on 110. But it keeps my shop very clean. I can't remember what I paid, but it wasn't too much. I couldn't get it locally, but went to Amazon.com, free shipping and no sales tax.
Thanks Dan,
I'll take a look at that model. My shop is wired for 220 so thats not an issue. I would probably put the DC on a dedicated circuit. Is that model mobile?
Thanks,
Wolfman
Yes, it has casters
Ditto what Dan said! Although I would suggest an air cleaner as well.
With a 20" jointer you are playing in the big leagues. If you have the money a 3 hp, or larger, cyclone, with a duct work system, would be the dust collector of choice. Anything else, while less expensive, will be harder to service or probably not sufficient for your needs.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Got the jointer used at such a great deal, couldn't pass it up. I am definitely not a production shop, but you feel that one of these 1.5 hp DC would not be sufficient to handle the volume of shavings/dust coming from the 20" planer? My DC system now consists of rolling the planer by the garage door and letting the stuff fly. ;>)
If you wanted to roll a small dust collector right up to the planer and have a short flex hose with minimum bends for the connection, then a 1.5 hp, two bag, home shop machine might be adequate if you aren't taking deep or wide cuts.
Most shops that have a planer of that size have a full ductwork system with a 3 to 5 hp cyclone.
John W.
That was going to be my method. One machine running at a time, move the DC to or near that particular machine. I'm going to the woodworking show in February, hopefully I can check out some systems there. Thanks for your thoughts.
Hi,
Just wanted to share my setup with you. I have the Delta 1.5 HP DC and roll it between my 15" planer, 8" jointer, and 3 HP Unisaw. I'm only a one man shop, and moving the dc to the tool works just fine. For the most part, I have been able to centralize my DC, use a two port splitter and a couple of blast gates. Full time it's connected to my table saw. When I need to use the jointer, I close one blast gate and open the other. When I need the planer, I move the 4 ft hose to the planer.
For fine dust, I have a 1/5 EDS (I think) hanging dust collector for all the fine dust. When I'm sanding, I use my shop vac and ear muffs connected to the dust port on my sander.
It might not be an optimal setup, but with just a little effort I able to do everything I need to, especially keep the wife off my back for creating dust clouds, health, and fire hazards.
-David
Thanks David,
What you are doing is exactly what I was envisioning. My shop is a detached two car garage, so I can make all the noise and dust I want, doesn't bother the wife. I don't use the 20" planer all the time, but when I do, it creates a pretty substantial pile of shavings. I think the 1.5 hp DC would definitely handle the table saw and jointer.
Thank you for your reply.
Hi John WW,
I was asking earlier about dust collection. Right now I'm still undecided. Shop vac vs Delta 1.5 HP DC If I decide to purchase a shop vac rather than the delta 1.5HP dust collector what Shop vac would you recommend? (Delta/Porter cable/Craftsman? How many amps/Gal.? All I know is I have to do something about the dust flying all over the place.
A Delta 1.5 DC would cost around $389 (Canadian funds) and a good shop vac would run me around $140 if not a wee bit more. Considering the price difference perhaps I would be better off purchasing the portable Delta 1.5 dust collector. Since I'm thinking about upgrading my table saw soon. Right now I really need something to hook up to the jointer. If I can get away with just using a shop vac that's ok. Since space in my small shop (13X 15) is at a premium. I have all my machines on mobile bases. So I'm always having to move the machines around.
I need to hook up an 8" jointer/ router table/ miter saw and Table saw (right now I have a contractors 10" table saw. Which I will probably upgrade a few yrs down the road to a 3HP saw.
I believe the jointer has a 4" dust collection chute as does the router table. Now if I decide to purchase the shop vac does that come with an adaptor to fit the 4" dust chute on the jointer and router table? Most come with 2 1/2" tubing I believe. Is that adequate?
Wanda
Just to throw another possibility into the mix, Steel City has a 1 HP DC that includes a 1 micron bag for $199. This strikes me as a nice option for single-machine use very small shop that is still a good bit better than a shop-vac.
Wanda,
Shop vacs are great for machines that produce saw dust, but they fall short on air flow and chip capacity for machines like jointers and thickness planers that can produce large amounts of shavings very quickly. The trash can chip collectors hooked up to a shop vac are a partial answer to the problem, but for not much more money you can buy a true dust collector.
I would recommend that you buy a 1 1/2 hp machine rather than a 1 hp. We ran an article reviewing 1 1/2 hp machines just a few issues back.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
John,
Enjoyed the review of 1-1/2 hp dust collectors, and found it extremely helpful.
I'd really like to buy Grizzly's new 1-1/2 hp cyclone system... it seems like a terrific value... but I'm intrigued by an even less expensive alternative:
A gentleman is building and selling these cyclones on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280085379772QQihZ018QQcategoryZ11704QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
My question to you: In your experience in testing these machines, do you think such a cyclone would bog down a unit like the Delta 50-760 to the point that it would lose effectiveness?
-Dakotan
Edited 3/1/2007 10:18 pm ET by Dakotan
I think Oneida sells something like it. Not the small unit to connect to a vac, but a version like this one. And they know more about dust collection than anybody.And don't even think of connecting a shop vac to a jointer. Not only is the volume overwhelming, but jointers don't produce much dust, but lots of chips and shavings. I have a 2 HP Woodsucker cyclone (a great unit, got killed in an inaccurate review a few years ago), and a 35 gallon drum will fill in no time from a jointer or planer. I milled about 150 BF last year, and emptied the drum 6 or 7 times in a couple of hours.I don't think a 1 1/2HP dust collector will do much in terms of its job: dust collection. Shavings yes, but not dust. Boost to at least a 2HP, run 5 or 6" lines, cut down on the flex hose runs, and you will see a lot of improvment. You can only get so much out of a 4" hose.
Daryl, did you look at that link I posted?
This is not a cyclone for a dust collector (although this guy does make those as well), this is a cyclone to be used in a dust collection system... my question was simply whether or not adding a unit like this would drag down a 1-1/2 hp dust collector like the Delta 50-760.
I am a one-man operation, and I never intend to grow larger (I've done the employee thing... never again). I'm in a small shop now (650 sq. ft.) and am considering buying commercial space for a larger shop/storefront soon.
In the meantime I want to maintain flexibility... I like the idea of a mobile unit that I can roll from machine to machine... using no more than 6' of flex hose.
THAT's why I'm intrigued by the thought of adding a small cyclone to the 50-760.
BTW: From all that I've read, I really like the Grizzly Cyclone over the Oneida... I think Grizzly reverse engineered the Oneida and improved the concept... and the price is terrific.
-Dakotan
Yes I did see the link; Oneida makes, or did make, just such an intermediary widget. So I assumed that it will be effective, since they know their stuff. But I bet it won't be much use with a unit under 2 HP, there just isn't a lot of air movement, especially with 4" hoses.
Wanda, get the dust collector. In my double-garage, I have a Delta 1.5 and three shop vacs. I use the Delta dust collector far more than the vacs combined. Tips: Dragging the Delta dust collector around is awkward in a small space, but you can improve things by a) emptying it before it gets full to the brim, b) using the thick poly bags made for hte Delta rather than (as I have at the moment) the cheapo bags from King (Canada), and c) put bigger and better wheels on it. I have not done this last one yet, and everytime the small, hard wheels hit anything, they screech to a stop.
Cheers,
Jim Bell
Wanda,take a look at Clearview Cyclones,I've tryed small systems,but now I have a GOOD collection system. Later Rickk
Hi Rick,
Do you have a URL for the Clearview cyclone. I did a google search but came up empty.
Wanda
Wanda,It is strange how hard it is to find Clearview by a Google search.Here's the link:http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/ It's a very small, one-man operation. If you call, you'll get the owner who will patiently answer any question.Their full-sized, 5hp system is $1000 including shipping. It'll take another $200 to get it set up (exhaust filter and collection drum - you have to get on your own).I'll be taking delivery in a few weeks. I think it's one of the best systems available, as well as one of the best deals around.RichWhoops! They have a new model - Max at $1300
Edited 3/3/2007 12:04 pm ET by Rich14
Hi Rich,
Wow! Just finished checking out that site. I was just reading the installation instructions. LOL Wish they'd provide free shipping and handling to Canada. :)
I'm not sure I have the right wiring in my small shop to run the Mini CV1400 cyclone. That requires 30amp right? I only have one 30amp outlet in the tool room. which I use to plug in my big machines. Good thing I only use 1 machine at a time. My room is enclosed/drywalled and painted so it's not like I can run new wires.
The mini CV06 cyclone looks tempting. I watched he video demo. I was impressed on how clean the filter remained after the vac had sucked up all that dust.
Can you use the 6" pipe if your t/s, jointer and bandsaw have 4" duct collection ports? by using somekind of an adaptor? Let's say a 4"- 6" adaptor if there is such a thing. My biggest problem right now is my router table. I suppose I would have been better off building my own. But instead I went ahead and purchased a r/table. The dust chute is 3 1/2 " in dia. Not the best design for dust control. a closed in table would have been better.
Let me know how your new cyclone works out once you have it up and running.
Wanda
Wanda,I believe you are about right, 25-30 amps is what is required. You can still run conduit outside the drywall for additional wiring needs. That's what I'm doing in my garage as I build my workshop.It really is amzing how efficient that design is. Just about everything it sucks in is depositd in the collection drum. Almost nothing needs to be filtered by the outlet filter. THAT'S fine dust collection!The best ducting configuration is to run the largest diameter ducting you can (6" in this case) right to the machine and adapt it to the machine's smaller dust port right there.Too bad they won't give you free shipping to the Frozen North. But, like we used to say in Maui, "That's the price you pay for living in paradise!"Rich
Rich,
I emailed the owner of the CV 1400 cylone. Have to wait and see if he responds to my e-mail.
In the meantime I must go check to make sure my ceiling is at least 8'. Might be a little less. If that's the case I'm out of luck.
Will the Mini CV 1400 Cyclone work for my smaller machines? (router tables and miter saw)? I know it will have no problem sucking up big wood chips from the larger machines. (band saw, table saw, jointer and planer. But in my small shop the worst culprits are the router table and miter saw. The jointer and planer just create big chips. But the fine dust from the smaller tools is a real problem. I'm wondering if I would be better off buying the Mini CV06 cyclone for $165 and connecting it up to a good quality shop vac. Isn't smaller hosing better for sucking up fine dust created by smaller woodworking machines. I know the larger pipe has more air flow and would be great for collecting big chips from the larger tools. 6" flex is less likely to get clogged.
Wanda
Wanda,Since I'm waiting for my own machine, and have no direct experience, yet, I can offer only encouragement that any of those models will do the job. The videos attest to that.But I think Ed will give you all the advice you need and steer you in the right direction.Rich
Hi Rich,
I'll sit tight for now and weigh all my options. I'll wait for you to get your cyclone up and running.
I was searching through fine woodworking earlier today trying to find out information on dust collection systems. I know Grizzily has a new cyclone DC on the market. FW had an article not too long ago on Delta and other Dust collection systems. Unfortunately, I don't have that issue #183 I have #184 and 187 but I missed that article. I'm too cheap to order a back issue. LOL
I don't think single stage DC are the way to go. Although some people swear they work great. I've heard they can be dangerous. Possible fire hazard.
Wanda
ClearVue cyclones are made and sold by Ed Morgano, based on design licensed to him by Bill Pentz. I went back and read Bill's home page again today, and found that the financial stress he's under has not eased. He struggles to keep the incredibly valuable site up and running. We quote him and reference his work frequently here at Knots. Perhaps we could ease the burden a bit. A read through this section gives some background and a link for donations via PayPal or a check to his address. If every woodworker who used his pages for serious research donated $5, it'd make a huge difference for him! My understanding is that pulmonary problems directly related to dust exposure have seriously impacted his health and income.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,I agree. I've used the information on that site and consider myself educated and enriched by it. I've contacted Bill and will make a donation by PayPal.Rich
Here's a dust collector that you should look at. I have a Bridgewood BW002C 2hp with upper cannister (1 micron filtration) that runs on 120v@15amps. It does a fine job with its' 1100cfm suction. I have it hooked to my Rikon 18" bandsaw and I use it for sucking away dust when I powercarve. It is on sale at http://www.Wilkemachinery.com for $299.00. I give the machine high praises, there's nothing better than breathing fresh air when working with wood. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the tip. You guys are extremely lucky. Here in Canada we pay a premium for good woodworking tools and machines. We have a limited selection of high end products. I've browsed through Amazon.com and am amazed at the prices. I only wish Amazon.ca would ship tools. Wouldn't it be great to take a truck down through the eastern United States and go on a tool shopping expedition. LOL Freight is a killer.
Wanda
You're welcome. You have an excellent source for machinery in Canada with General Machinery. I would love to have some of their equipment in my shop, but I would have to pay the price. Guess that's why we're all buyin' stuff made in China or Taiwan.
In your post to Rich14, you were looking for a past review by FW. You can page through past reviews online off the FW Homepage. Maybe you will find what you're looking for.
Edited 3/4/2007 6:28 pm ET by carvinchris
John,
Any plans from FWW for a review of Cyclone dust collectors?
I have the same problem; Lots and lots of dust. But my biggest problem is with myself; I, up until now, had never really been concerned with dust control. Just swept it up when it got to be an annoyance on the floor. So now everything in my shop is covered with a layer of saw dust. Even tools tucked away in cabinets.
But I'm like you; I only use one tool at a time and then I don't have all that many tools that cause allot of that fine dust. The TS is the worst but I've recently up-graded to a quality saw that has a quality dust controlling feature. So then there is the router and sanding. Both of which, I feel, can be delt with using a shop vac. Of course then you're replacing the air pollution with noise pollution. But when I'm running the TS or the router I'd better be wearing ear protection already.
I spent a fortune on deodorant until I finally realized that people didn't like me anyway.
David,
I'll second the Delta 50-760. I also have a small basement shop which has expanded to a couple of more machines than you have jointer , planer. I used the shop vac approach for quite a while - the main problem with it is that the filter clogs very rapidly and secondly the noise. It's very frustrating and messy to be cleaning or replacing that filter frequently, rather than doing woodworking.
You mentioned you are "setting up" a basement shop, to most of us that has meant acquiring additional machinery over time. Once that journey takes you to a planer forget the shopvac.
FYI - I run the 50-760 and one machine at a time, both on the same 20 amp 110v circuit, never popped a breaker.
If cost is a big concern, I use a shop vac with a trash can & lid adapter to take care of the 'chunks', and a military surplus blower in a box with a furnace filter to take care of the airborne dust. I have seen box fans with a piece of filter material taped to the 'intake' side in shops to remove airborne dust too.
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